Armour of Contempt Rumors

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**Dysartes**

tneva82 wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Fair enough but to be precise the distance specified in the quote is 24" not less than 24".

Also for completeness' sake a unit of retributors with 4 Multi Meltas cost 140 pts.

For an EC player to have 2 Blastmasters would require the expenditure of 240 points since you would need 2 units of Noise Marines.

So, let's take this to a logical conclusion. 240 points of Noise Marines firing at a Rhino at less than half range does 8 points of damage to the Rhino. The retributors do 10 points to a Rhino without being within half distance. Within 12" the damage goes to 16 for the sisters.

You tell me which is the more efficient result. Spending 30 points per point of damage or 14 points per point of damage.

You forgetting rest of units? Can't compare just 1 model from unit and base calc from that.

Did you miss the original post Leo was referring to, which was a single Noise Marine with Blastmaster compared to a single SoB Retributor with a Multi-Melta? If you wish to complain about such comparisons, start with the source, not the person trying to get to accurate figures.

Also, consider posting in a manner which doesn't come off like you're a piece of 40 grit sandpaper.

**RaptorusRex**

Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Fair enough but to be precise the distance specified in the quote is 24" not less than 24".

Also for completeness' sake a unit of retributors with 4 Multi Meltas cost 140 pts.

For an EC player to have 2 Blastmasters would require the expenditure of 240 points since you would need 2 units of Noise Marines.

So, let's take this to a logical conclusion. 240 points of Noise Marines firing at a Rhino at less than half range does 8 points of damage to the Rhino. The retributors do 10 points to a Rhino without being within half distance. Within 12" the damage goes to 16 for the sisters.

You tell me which is the more efficient result. Spending 30 points per point of damage or 14 points per point of damage.

You forgetting rest of units? Can't compare just 1 model from unit and base calc from that.

I did factor in all 8 bolt guns into my numbers. So it compares 2 Noise Marine Units (1 Blastmaster and 4 boltguns each) with 1 unit of Retributors (4 Multi-meltas and 1 boltgun).

You can't just ignore their defensive stats, either. Noise Marines are T4 with 2 wounds, while Retributors are T3 with 1 wound. Guess which squad is easier to remove? Also, the Blastmaster is going to have ablative wounds, while the Retributors (after the sergeant) are going to lose damage output rather quickly.

If you want to Mathammer things out, fine, but you need to consider the whole picture.

This. I get that a lot of you lost most of this edition due to the pandemic, but the average game of 40k isn't played on planet bowling ball with perfect sight lines and what have you. Numbers only tell you so much.

**Valkyrie**

Do we have a rough idea on when to expect this update?

**xttz**

Valkyrie wrote:
Do we have a rough idea on when to expect this update?

Sometime in January. Most likely it'll drop alongside Chapter Approved, and preorders for that could be announced as early as this Sunday.

**Sunny Side Up**

More probably, it'll be something like announcement on January 7th and release on the 14th.

**tneva82**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
More probably, it'll be something like announcement on January 7th and release on the 14th.

Announcements comes on sundays so 1st, 8th or 15th.

15th least likely as store day would be 28th

**Irbis**

Manfred von Drakken wrote:
You can't just ignore their defensive stats, either. Noise Marines are T4 with 2 wounds, while Retributors are T3 with 1 wound. Guess which squad is easier to remove?

To be fair, with the amount of broken gak xenos bring these days there is little to no difference here. S8 D3 AP-5 Tau plasma rifle doesn't exactly care what power armour model it targets (though funnily enough orkstodes in their t-shirts are massively better at tanking it, LOL

). Hell, even 'weak' S5 D2 weapons that breed faster than cockroaches these days will wound/kill both models equally well. Sisters are in big part so good precisely because they don't pay for useless statline most of the time you don't even get to use against a minmaxed army capable of tackling MEQs.

**Sunny Side Up**

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
The Blastmaster guy shooting without any buffs or re-rolls at 24" into a Rhino-Equivelent averages about 5.3 damage (36 points for that model currently,).

A single sororitas Retributor girl with a Multimelta without any buffs or re-rolls at 24" into a Rhino-Equivalent averages about 2.3 damage (32 points for that model currently, which is also going up per rumours).

Let me check your math. You get 3 shots at WS 3. That means 2 hits. You wound on 3+ so 1.32 wounds. The Rhino saves on a base 3+ adjusted by Aoc and AP meaning save on a 5+ leaves .87 total hits x3 for Damage = 2.6 damage to the Rhino. That looks like a much smaller number than the one you gave. Just saying...

Sonic Weapon gives AP -4 and Emperor's Children will bring it to AP -5 on a quarter of the successful wounds. You also may get more hits with exploding 6s, though few in the "unbuffed" example, though once you add re-rolls, fishing for 6s or even using the Slaanesh strat for an auto-6, getting 4-5 hits out of 3 shots is quite possible (though again, Sisters also have good buffing options, re-rolls, MD, etc..).

**DreadfullyHopeful**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
The Blastmaster guy shooting without any buffs or re-rolls at 24" into a Rhino-Equivelent averages about 5.3 damage (36 points for that model currently,).

A single sororitas Retributor girl with a Multimelta without any buffs or re-rolls at 24" into a Rhino-Equivalent averages about 2.3 damage (32 points for that model currently, which is also going up per rumours).

Let me check your math. You get 3 shots at WS 3. That means 2 hits. You wound on 3+ so 1.32 wounds. The Rhino saves on a base 3+ adjusted by Aoc and AP meaning save on a 5+ leaves .87 total hits x3 for Damage = 2.6 damage to the Rhino. That looks like a much smaller number than the one you gave. Just saying...

Sonic Weapon gives AP -4 and Emperor's Children will bring it to AP -5 on a quarter of the successful wounds. You also may get more hits with exploding 6s, though few in the "unbuffed" example, though once you add re-rolls, fishing for 6s or even using the Slaanesh strat for an auto-6, getting 4-5 hits out of 3 shots is quite possible (though again, Sisters also have good buffing options, re-rolls, MD, etc..).

Blastmasters are -3 AP ? -4 on a 6 to wound.

**Leo_the_Rat**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
The Blastmaster guy shooting without any buffs or re-rolls at 24" into a Rhino-Equivelent averages about 5.3 damage (36 points for that model currently,).

A single sororitas Retributor girl with a Multimelta without any buffs or re-rolls at 24" into a Rhino-Equivalent averages about 2.3 damage (32 points for that model currently, which is also going up per rumours).

Let me check your math. You get 3 shots at WS 3. That means 2 hits. You wound on 3+ so 1.32 wounds. The Rhino saves on a base 3+ adjusted by Aoc and AP meaning save on a 5+ leaves .87 total hits x3 for Damage = 2.6 damage to the Rhino. That looks like a much smaller number than the one you gave. Just saying...

Sonic Weapon gives AP -4 and Emperor's Children will bring it to AP -5 on a quarter of the successful wounds. You also may get more hits with exploding 6s, though few in the "unbuffed" example, though once you add re-rolls, fishing for 6s or even using the Slaanesh strat for an auto-6, getting 4-5 hits out of 3 shots is quite possible (though again, Sisters also have good buffing options, re-rolls, MD, etc..).

Which EC strat gives you an auto 6 for anything other than advancing? Since the question dealt with unbuffed models comparing buffs is irrelevant to the discussion. Just as a side point even though blastmasters can only get to -4 on a 6 to wound is there really any difference between a -4 and a -5AP? Also EC only get to add an AP on a 6 to wound so only 1/6 of our wounds enhance AP not 1/4.

**Dysartes**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
The Blastmaster guy shooting without any buffs or re-rolls at 24" into a Rhino-Equivelent averages about 5.3 damage (36 points for that model currently,).

A single sororitas Retributor girl with a Multimelta without any buffs or re-rolls at 24" into a Rhino-Equivalent averages about 2.3 damage (32 points for that model currently, which is also going up per rumours).

Let me check your math. You get 3 shots at WS 3. That means 2 hits. You wound on 3+ so 1.32 wounds. The Rhino saves on a base 3+ adjusted by Aoc and AP meaning save on a 5+ leaves .87 total hits x3 for Damage = 2.6 damage to the Rhino. That looks like a much smaller number than the one you gave. Just saying...

Sonic Weapon gives AP -4 and Emperor's Children will bring it to AP -5 on a quarter of the successful wounds. You also may get more hits with exploding 6s, though few in the "unbuffed" example, though once you add re-rolls, fishing for 6s or even using the Slaanesh strat for an auto-6, getting 4-5 hits out of 3 shots is quite possible (though again, Sisters also have good buffing options, re-rolls, MD, etc..).

You have an interesting definition of "without any buffs", my dude - just admit you mucked your calculation up.

**Sunny Side Up**

Dysartes wrote:

You have an interesting definition of "without any buffs", my dude - just admit you mucked your calculation up.

There were no buffs included in my calculation (aside from .. being Emperor's Children, which was the topic)

But I'd thought I'd add a bit more in my second post so there'd be some value there, other than pointing out your numerical ineptitude.