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 karlosovic wrote:
My feeling is that 10pts to use a weapon once isn't worth it if you can get the 2nd one in your squad on a normal guy.
There's also the issue of it reducing the # of attacks your WGPL can make in melee... although that's not an issue for if you're using a Specialist Weapon

An example of where I would use it is 10 Blood Claws in a drop pod. They don't meet the requirements for the 2nd special weapon, so I gave my WGPL a combi-flamer to maximise their shooting on the turn the DP lands (before they can charge)

Confirms what I was thinking. Hadn't considered the loss of attack though & yeah that loadout with the Blood Claws sounds usable. Thanks for the pointers. What I've decided to do is model them holding them their various melee weapons and then magnestise the combi's to connect to their backs, (for the rare occasions I might want them for a game). I've also given one or 1 of my wolfguard leading a rear-field squad a storm bolter. Again I'm not sure its a good idea, I like the weapon but I'm guessing there's better things I can do with 5 pts...

If I am thinking of running two pods worth of maxed out Wolf-Guard, in a pod-heavy list, what would be an optimal number of combi-meltas to give them one good chance to bust armor on an alpha-strike?

Its a "mostly for fun list" with three Dreads in pods, but I also thought the option of bringing in the Wolf Guard at the top of turn 1 instead might be a potent one for opponents who field Wraith-spam, etc...

I'd be running it as a Company of the Great Wolf, so I figure i'd give the Wolf Guard one good turn of very potent shooting, and from there just utilize the WS5 in CC.

In my mind i'm thinking three or four combi-meltas per unit, to essentially ensure a popped Rhino/WS/etc...

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 karlosovic wrote:
My feeling is that 10pts to use a weapon once isn't worth it if you can get the 2nd one in your squad on a normal guy.
There's also the issue of it reducing the # of attacks your WGPL can make in melee... although that's not an issue for if you're using a Specialist Weapon

An example of where I would use it is 10 Blood Claws in a drop pod. They don't meet the requirements for the 2nd special weapon, so I gave my WGPL a combi-flamer to maximise their shooting on the turn the DP lands (before they can charge)

Confirms what I was thinking. Hadn't considered the loss of attack though & yeah that loadout with the Blood Claws sounds usable. Thanks for the pointers. What I've decided to do is model them holding them their various melee weapons and then magnestise the combi's to connect to their backs, (for the rare occasions I might want them for a game). I've also given one or 1 of my wolfguard leading a rear-field squad a storm bolter. Again I'm not sure its a good idea, I like the weapon but I'm guessing there's better things I can do with 5 pts...

My thinking is - if it's a backfield squad unlikely to see combat, I wouldn't take the WGPL at all. It's essentially 15pts for only a single extra boltgun shot at 12"-24"
If you think they will see combat, gear the pack leader for combat and drop the stormbolter. I'd keep him with the +1 A for 2 melee weapons unless you need the combi-weapon (or perhaps a SS)

I think it's worth it, at least when it comes to melta units. 4 GH+1WGPL with 2 melta shots from the drop, or 9+1 with 3 shots is an excellent boost in the chance to take out whatever you're shooting on when they drop in.

For plasma i rarely get the combi, but that's mainly because I run that GH unit in a rhino, where the two normal plasma guns will fire from the hatch.

 karlosovic wrote:
My thinking is - if it's a backfield squad unlikely to see combat, I wouldn't take the WGPL at all. It's essentially 15pts for only a single extra boltgun shot at 12"-24"
If you think they will see combat, gear the pack leader for combat and drop the stormbolter. I'd keep him with the +1 A for 2 melee weapons unless you need the combi-weapon (or perhaps a SS)

That makes sense. I find with modelling my GH squads units I'm having to find a balance between what I actually want to model and making an effective loudout. e.g. I want to run one or 2 power swords / frost swords but the wolf claw seems to be the better option.

I have been working on a WolfPack list, based on the same principles that used to work with the old BeastPack list. Has anyone tried anything similar, would you like to see my initial thoughts on it?

posting my LVO list here if anyone wants some ideas for SW combos, did well came in 4th,

just keep in mind the idea is to be a scalpal and take out a key unit or two and play the objectives, donT try to table everyone wiht this!

rune priest lvl1
rune priest lvl1


troops

10 grey hunters 2 meltas, pack leader with combi melta, guy with axe has CCW in addition to rest
drop pod storm bolter 12/12/12

10 grey hunters 2 meltas, pack leader with combi melta,

drop pod storm bolter 12/12/12

10 grey hunters 2 plasma, pack leader with combi plasma, plasma pistol

drop pod storm bolter 12/12/12



5 blood claws

drop pod storm bolter 12/12/12



Elite






fast

3 drop pods







company command squad, 4 melta

preist

psyker

vet squad 3 melta, meltabombs demo charge
vet squad 3 melta, meltabombs demo charge


3x atrillary carridges + 8 crew


vendetta

Watching LVO made me really consider revisiting running Company of the Great Wolf with masses of Wolf Guard in Pods.

How's this for a theory-hammer question.

Is it better to stick melta-bombs on the lot of 'em (the detachment giving them WS5 also means they're that much more inclined to stick a melta-bomb to an Imperial Knight), or run combi-meltas on 3-4 in a squad of 10?

Does the fact that they could shoot them off the turn they drop in outweigh the fact that they're one-and-done?

 easysauce wrote:
posting my LVO list here if anyone wants some ideas for SW combos, did well came in 4th,

just keep in mind the idea is to be a scalpal and take out a key unit or two and play the objectives, donT try to table everyone wiht this!

rune priest lvl1
rune priest lvl1


troops

10 grey hunters 2 meltas, pack leader with combi melta, guy with axe has CCW in addition to rest
drop pod storm bolter 12/12/12

10 grey hunters 2 meltas, pack leader with combi melta,

drop pod storm bolter 12/12/12

10 grey hunters 2 plasma, pack leader with combi plasma, plasma pistol

drop pod storm bolter 12/12/12



5 blood claws

drop pod storm bolter 12/12/12



Elite






fast

3 drop pods







company command squad, 4 melta

preist

psyker

vet squad 3 melta, meltabombs demo charge
vet squad 3 melta, meltabombs demo charge


3x atrillary carridges + 8 crew


vendetta

Love this list, nice mix of units and long range fire support.

So, I was thinking about this the other day did some digging and I think we might have a pretty big answer to the current Necron Shenanigans of the 4 RP army wide.

Hellfrost: A model that suffers and unsaved wound takes a strength check per wound suffered. A fail removes the model from play.

So If I use a Hellfrost destructor and disperse it into a squad of Necron warriors.
it punches through their armor and IIRC wounds on a 2+
that could be a good chunk of dead crons.

They get their 4++ RP but then still have to take the Hellfrost Strength check which removes them not reduces them to 0 wounds.

Am I wrong?

Edit 1:
This is assuming they fail the Strength check. but if you give something enough dice to roll, eventually it will die.

Wouldn't "Remove from play" bypass everything, including RP? I mean... that is part of why people cringe when Knight's roll a 6 on their stomp-table. The model just "goes".

No, helfrost states an unsaved wound. RP is taken like FNP, which you get before you take the wound. Then the wound is treated as being saved.

You can pretty much look at RP as the invulnerable equivalent to FnP.

Save: invul :: FnP : RP

Only thing that stops it is strength D.
If your necron opponent fails its RP, then it does the strength test, then is removed from play. The answer to necron warriors is beating them and running them down. Happened to mine the other day. 20 warriors and lord lost 2 (and I forgot to create more via ghost ark) from a whole army of ork shooting, including 3 heavy flamers, but then I failed combat by 5 and was run down.

Fnp only triggers when you suffer an unsaved wound same as RP, which also triggers hell frost. Afaik FNP isn't a save its just ignoring the wound

Might want to take it I YMDC.

 pretre wrote:
Might want to take it I YMDC.

I'll bring it over Sunday when I have time to dedicate to the thread. I'm excited tho

So I got a Stormwolf/fang box the other day and I've been agonizing about how I want to build it (and no, I don't want to magnetize it). I finally decided on the Stormwolf for a few reasons:

1) The turret weapon is sooooo much better than a mounted gun, especially because it's twin-linked.
2) More points efficient in general (cheaper, free lascannons, larger transport capacity), and makes buying Multi-meltas less of a points-sink.
3) Doesn't take up a FOC slot. This one was pretty crucial for me actually, swapping a squad's Rhino for what is essentially a Heavy Support option is pretty attractive to me.

I don't know if I'll run it as a transport very often though, maybe only to run a MSU squad to cap a backfield objective while the Stormwolf flat-outs to another objective. It should be pretty interesting though, now I've got two big transport gunships flying around in any big games I choose to do (Stormwolf and Stormeagle).

Keep in mind that it is fairly easy to magnetize if you're really agonizing.

I completely agree that wolf is better than fang though.

yeah, getting the flyers out of the HS or fast slot is key, esp for the BGNT and scourging missions where they award extra points.

every point you can deny your opponent is pure gold.


Now that cyber wolves are FAQ to be t5, I think the combo with them and the techmarine on thunderwolf is much better, you have lots of attacks/ablative wounds, lots of str 10 ap 1 attacks, and the cyber wolves can eat up challenges so you are free to wreck face on the unit.

at 8 pts peice, the ferisian wolves are really good, very hard choice between them and thunderwolve cav.

Now that Swiftclaws have lost their extra CCW, and even a WGPL only has one weapon to swap..... what should I do with my bikers?

I have a large pack - 9 bikers, attack bike + Rune Priest and Wolf Priest on bikes.

It sucks they've lost their CCW (and don't even have the option to buy it back like Grey Hunters).... this means they're virtually crippled from assaulting (with only 1 attack each after the charge round)
20pts each for T5 bolters seems a lot
I guess I have enough of them that I can go for smaller sized packs and max out my potential to add BS3 melta guns?

Is it worth it to just bench the attack bike and take them as Wolf Guard bikers instead?
It's a lot more expensive, though, and how would you equip them?

Do either of these look any good?

Option 1.
Wolf Priest (PE - Vehicles)
4 Swift Claws - meltagun (potentially upgrade one to WGPL with combi-melta)
Attack Bike - multi-melta
&
Rune Priest (Biomancy)
5 Wolf Guard bikers (combination of combi-meltas and special melee?)


Option 2.
Wolf Priest (PE - Vehicles)
4 Swift Claws - meltagun
Attack Bike - multi-melta
&
Rune Priest (Biomancy)
5 Swift Claws - plasmagun (potentially upgrade one to WGPL with plasma pistol)
potentially buy another Attack Bike - heavy bolter

Turn them into Wolf Guard on bikes?

pure melee wolf guard bikers are just as dangerous as TWC but will probably be ignored more imo

The ability to put pair of claws on a bike or TH/SS on a bike with 2 base attacks is awesome

expensive, but awesome

I'm not so sure...

5 Thunderwolf Cavalry - Thunder Hammer, 3xStormshield - 265
5 Wolf Guard Bikers - Thunder Hammer, 3xStormshield - 200

65pts cheaper, granted, but:
W1 instead of 2
S4 instead of 5
A2 instead of 4
no Rending

Instead, they have twin-linked relentless bolters
Considering how much they lose in melee compared to TWC, I feel like that's not their best use
They're missing the Attack Bike that Swift Claws could have and can't have proper special weapon.... but they CAN get more of them

How about:
5 Wolf Guard Bikers - 3xCombi-melta, 2xMeltabombs, Power Axe - 180
Possibly lead by a Wolf Priest with Preferred Enemy (Vehicles)
The Power Axe is just for some AP2 if they end up in melee with infantry.

wolf guard would get 3 attacks IIRC as they still have the CCW + bolt pistol.

you also should factor in the inherant jink save they get, as well as the fact that they are not a FA choice makes them better in missions like the scouring.

That all being said, I do think TWC are the better choice,

personally, I think fenrisian wolves are over looked though, cheap, effective ESP with a mounted techmarine and a few cyber wolves.

 easysauce wrote:
wolf guard would get 3 attacks IIRC as they still have the CCW + bolt pistol.

This would also apply to TWC but I was comparing base stats because they'd lose that extra CCW attack with many load-outs (like the ones I listed)

Any thoughts on the shooty load-out I mentioned?