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Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Duncan yeah that's the name of the company/range!

Also don't forget something like Confrontation which had a market already has a lot of its own marketing done for it by the fanbase for free. Kickstarters are massively about marketing so a new miniature range often has to invest quite a lot of money in pre-release marketing in order to get awareness out there for them to then jumpstart actual funding. It's why you can sometimes see what look like really neat projects gather in very little actual money because the people running the KS haven't invested enough or in the right way with regard to the marketing.

Confrontation doesn't even need pre-production or production examples because so many backing it are already aware of its existence and the news spreads fast through the existing fanbase and hangers on etc...

Essentially it feeds itself with very little input from the designers - scarily the fanbase for it appears so keen that even very very bad marketing moves are not sending up any warning signs to some - then again we've still got the last day or so to see what happens. A lot of people back a KS and then don't pay any attention till the last few days.

One also has to remember that some pay very little attention to forums so unless the KS comments are rife with complaints and problems then many might not even be aware of the issues being raised.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in au
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Melbourne

Mierce didn’t do any KSers until after Maelstrom was deceased.

Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch."
Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!" 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




ced1106 wrote:
Well, now I'm confused at how the companies owned or once owned by Piotr are related. Not that it's *my* responsibility for clarifying it all.

Missing avatar
Drew about 3 hours ago
@Wunderlich- ok, that makes it sound like the opposite from what I understood.

The "Liquidator" can be one of the partners of the company, or one of the managers, or some other legal representative who assumes the duty of liquidating assets and paying creditors.

That means that it is customary for the liquidator to be someone who is involved with the company- and possibly involved with the other two companies that the same owner owns (it could even be one of the owners).

(this is VERY different from the way it works in the US).

The French wikipedia page about "liquidateur" draws a different picture. To become an official "liquidateur" (someone a court can assign to manage the assets of a company to try and pay back as much debt as possible), you need to pass an exam followed by a 3 year training program (and you can only take the exam after a bachelor).
Apparently the total number of people who can be "liquidateur" is regulated, and it's pretty difficult to become one.

The content of the wikipedia page is basically everything I know about that stuff, so I might be completely wrong, but it's getting harder and harder to understand the company structure.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Small updates: I received this email from Ludik reminding me of the KS.

https://i.imgur.com/Z6URhi0.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/lLge0Rm.jpg

Also, it is confirmed that you will not be able to add the "celebration box" pledge or item after the KS ends in the pledge manager - despite what the pledge level says.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





HaleysRedComet wrote:
Small updates: I received this email from Ludik reminding me of the KS.

https://i.imgur.com/Z6URhi0.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/lLge0Rm.jpg

Also, it is confirmed that you will not be able to add the "celebration box" pledge or item after the KS ends in the pledge manager - despite what the pledge level says.


They are now saying you cant add add-ons in the PM?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mysterio wrote:
If it passes the 48 hour mark funded, it will fund, unfortunately.

(Unless KS changed this?)


In the last 48hrs it can de-fund until its original funding goal before KS steps in and disallows pledges to be dropped if it takes it below the funding goal, the only way to drop your pledge then is to message KS directly and plead your case.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/15 17:47:10


 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Exactly - so if you've doubts - and you should! - drop early, just in case.

Because while it is doubtful that it will Unfund, better safe than sorry!

Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Aye, i dropped down around 60hrs left
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Original Timmy wrote:


They are now saying you cant add add-ons in the PM?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mysterio wrote:
If it passes the 48 hour mark funded, it will fund, unfortunately.

(Unless KS changed this?)


In the last 48hrs it can de-fund until its original funding goal before KS steps in and disallows pledges to be dropped if it takes it below the funding goal, the only way to drop your pledge then is to message KS directly and plead your case.


They've stated that you can have add ons to your pledge via the pledge manager, but that the Celebration Box can not be added nor pledged for in the pledge manager.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut







One thing you are able to do here is upgrade from PVC celebration box level to Resin all in pledge post campaign in the Pledge manager. Might be of interest to those who don't care for PVC quality sculpts and don't have the money for the resin version now.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





HaleysRedComet wrote:
 Original Timmy wrote:


They are now saying you cant add add-ons in the PM?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mysterio wrote:
If it passes the 48 hour mark funded, it will fund, unfortunately.

(Unless KS changed this?)


In the last 48hrs it can de-fund until its original funding goal before KS steps in and disallows pledges to be dropped if it takes it below the funding goal, the only way to drop your pledge then is to message KS directly and plead your case.


They've stated that you can have add ons to your pledge via the pledge manager, but that the Celebration Box can not be added nor pledged for in the pledge manager.


Ok thanks

reguarding dropping in the last 24hrs someone linked the ToU about it!

"You can change or cancel your pledge at any time before the project’s funding deadline (with one exception). You can increase, decrease, or cancel your pledge at any time during the campaign, with one exception. During the last 24 hours of the campaign, you can’t decrease or cancel your pledge without contacting customer support first — if that action would drop the project below its funding goal. Once the project has been funded, you can only cancel or change your pledge by making special arrangements directly with the creator."

Source:
https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/15 18:41:30


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

So it sounds like it can go all the way down and then there's a block where you have to apply to get past the funding goal and then thereafter it can keep going down. So if there's a mass-retreat from the KS with good reasoning then KS likely will honour it.

So it would likely only pause things and might even make them worse as everyone would suddenly complain in the comments until KS approved the applications.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Kickstarter added that defunding protection because trolls use to create dummy accounts, fund a project then back out with only a few minutes left in the campaign.
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Teesside

I got the 48 hours left reminder from KS and went to have a look at the first page of the comments. Wow. Mostly very disgruntled people. And one dude who is angry that the people who have raised awareness of the issues with this KS are actually terrorists associated with evil recasters from the Ukraine.

My painting & modelling blog: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/699224.page

Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
http://serpentking.com/

 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator







At this point, with that ^ much back-sliding, the biggest Red Flag of all might be that they are NOT canceling this, regrouping and relaunching at a later date.

This has the feel of a "cash grab now, consequences are for later (and consequences be damned!)" campaign...

Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Mysterio wrote:


At this point, with that ^ much back-sliding, the biggest Red Flag of all might be that they are NOT canceling this, regrouping and relaunching at a later date.

This has the feel of a "cash grab now, consequences are for later (and consequences be damned!)" campaign...


Thats my thinking, they seem desperate to get money at any cost!
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Out of morbid curiosity I perused the KS comments today, and supposedly one of the collaborators (Joss) will be sharing photos tonight of a resin cast, and hinted at having images of one painted by Angel Giraldez. Interesting timing, if it indeed happens.
   
Made in de
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Augsburg/Germany

But the resin was intended for Ressurection we were told the last time.

André Winter
L'Art Noir - Game Design and Translation Studio 
   
Made in gb
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Nottingham

Yeah, that's one of the Resurrection minis that Angel was painting. As Duncan said


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I jumped ship a while ago. It looks like this will fund, just barely and I wish good luck to all the guys with the balls to go down with the ship. I hope it stays afloat for your sakes. I'd hate to see a repeat of Spartan

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 22:26:52


PLOG: Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings

The source of my Conquest : Www.facebook.com/ParaBellumWarGames



 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Davidian wrote:
Yeah, that's one of the Resurrection minis that Angel was painting. As Duncan said


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I jumped ship a while ago. It looks like this will fund, just barely and I wish good luck to all the guys with the balls to go down with the ship. I hope it stays afloat for your sakes. I'd hate to see a repeat of Spartan


Spartan was slightly different - their campaign had many renderings of the actual models and they had solid products on the market. So on that score most backing that had no issue with the quality of miniature that would be produced. Consumer wise with Spartan the issue was more that the company wasn't organised/big enough to support all the different lines they released; so the company jumped one to the next which could leave a whole game without updates for a long while. Couple that to marketing that was hit and miss (lots of missed release/news dates and projects hinted at which never appeared) and it was no surprise tha they started to bleed customers. Though these appeared to be all issues of background finance problems which ended their first KS and stopped the second being a reality. Spartan were honest but I think out of their depth.


SD on the other hand seem less than honest considering all the question dodging; the lack of any actual pre-production or production examples of anything that's to be produced and the fact that having bled money the whole time they've not paused and relaunched. Any other KS would have pulled the plug; waited, found enough investment to get at least 1 preproduction model design and casting up for display and then relaunched (heck if they answered most of the questions they could relaunch and easily fund within a day).
It's odd behaviour from them that the more it goes on the more it just screams that they are going to take the cash and run; or produce a dirt cheap product with a tiny portion of the cash and either run or plough it into another product.

The other option is that they are totally inept, which isn't impossible. Owning a licence/IP doesn't make anyone a businessman overnight so they could just be people who are totally out of their depth and so far so that they can't actually see the problems even when they are pointed out by multiple sources.


I really hope it goes well, that all these worries are unfounded. KS is a great resource for companies wanting to expand or come to the market. At the same time each failure hurts and harms the whole process for further games .

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Nottingham

I simply meant I'd hate to see another kickstarter nose dive and people lose alot of money.

PLOG: Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings

The source of my Conquest : Www.facebook.com/ParaBellumWarGames



 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Man, this is one scary freaking project. I love the Confrontation minis but there's no way I'd be on board for this.
   
Made in us
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

This project is just like water.


LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Central Cimmeria

You know, pulling in 350k Euro isn't a bad haul considering they only have to infrequently update with pictures of artwork or background fluff etc. for a few months after the KS closes, then follow up with updates about how somebody fell sick, grandma died, costs more than anticipated etc. for another six months or so before finally declaring "with heavy hearts" the insolvency of the company in one or two years.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Looks like it will come in around 400k. I real respectable amount for how little effort there was in this. Hopefully something good comes out of this but I'm not very optimistic.
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

Well, that's the end of Confrontation.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut







Just goes to show how strong this IP is, when it can be ran so badly and still raise so much.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

I don't think I've ever seen another campaign shoot up so high and then pretty much be negative almost every other day, and still fund. Even the last day when it's usually one of the best for other campaigns. I hope they are able to pull it off and deliver.

 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Now SD/Stellar has slapped an IP violation against the Signum KS, by the Cadwallon folks who used to (ahem) do recasts of Confrontation.

Original post by Sarouan.

Thanks for funding Stellar's legal bills, backers!


It's more than that. Stellar Licensing and Consulting is the one behind the DMCA claim

Source : https://www.lumendatabase.org/notices/16525981

For a reminder, Stellar is the society holding the rights to Confrontation : https://www.stellarlicencing.com/index.php/en/

Christophe Ammirati is one of its directors (source : https://fr.linkedin.com/in/christophe-ammirati-41a99763 )

And it happens that Mr Ammirati is also part of the Sans Détour team (source : http://www.sans-detour.com/a-propos/).

So yeah, doubts about revenge for the Confrontation Classic KS are certainly reinforced, now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 13:03:17


Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





ced1106 wrote:
Now SD/Stellar has slapped an IP violation against the Signum KS, by the Cadwallon folks who used to (ahem) do recasts of Confrontation.

Original post by Sarouan.

Thanks for funding Stellar's legal bills, backers!


It's more than that. Stellar Licensing and Consulting is the one behind the DMCA claim

Source : https://www.lumendatabase.org/notices/16525981

For a reminder, Stellar is the society holding the rights to Confrontation : https://www.stellarlicencing.com/index.php/en/

Christophe Ammirati is one of its directors (source : https://fr.linkedin.com/in/christophe-ammirati-41a99763 )

And it happens that Mr Ammirati is also part of the Sans Détour team (source : http://www.sans-detour.com/a-propos/).

So yeah, doubts about revenge for the Confrontation Classic KS are certainly reinforced, now.


That is proper low and spiteful but not too surprising when SD collaborators was spouting LOS guys were deliberately trying to sink SD's KS rather than admit SD havent a clue in what they are doing
   
Made in ca
Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





California the Southern

...but weren't SD supposed to be working in collaboration with Cadwallon/ the Signum guys?

I just don't get it.

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
   
 
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