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Made in us
Flailing Flagellant




Lost in L.A. smog

Hi ya'll,

1. If you attempt to use a psychic power in the shooting phase but fail (say you roll an 11 on the psychic power test), can you "power up" your force weapon with a psychic test in the assault phase in the same turn?  This seemed a bit cheesy, but I don't think it's legal.

2.  When using the Vortex of Doom, does your opponent remove causalties from the affected unit or is it the actual models covered by the small blast marker?

Thx for any help on this.




 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Silverdale, WA

Answer to question 1 is on the top right of page 46 of the rulebook under the heading "Force Weapons" 

[edit]

Just to add to that as well, there doesn't appear to be a limit on how many psychic powers can be used during a turn.  So, unless your codex specifically states otherwise, your psyker can fail a test for a power during the movement phase and still test for other powers during the turn.  He just can't use that particular power he failed with.  This of course is dependant on your interpretation of the word "the" in the phrase "cannot use the power that turn."

Answer to question 2 is dependant on if you feel that psychic powers follow all of the shooting rules only breaking the ones that are directly contradicted by the power.  Or, you may believe that psychic powers that contradict any portion of the shooting rules do not follow the shooting rules.  If you believe that the power follows ALL of the shooting rules then the marker must first be placed on an enemy unit not only free of assault but also in LOS.  Then the casualties can only come from within 12" and LOS of the psyker.  If you believe that this power follows its own set of rules seperate from the shooting rules (as I do) then the blast marker can be placed over any unit not in assault and the casualties must come from the models fully covered by the template.  This effectively makes this power a fairly good sniper weapon against low initiative models.


 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





As per the shooting rules in regards to template/blast weapons I believe you have to centre it in a way that covers as many models as possible. Also when removing models from a unit that has taken casualties from template/blast weapons you never have to remove models that were under the template. I think this represents the actual blast and shrapnel flying all over the place. In the BGB it says this is because they didn't want AoE weapons being used as Snipers for Vet Sergs ect. I believe in the vortex entry it states any models under the template are effected. I can't remember the exact wording but...If it says place the template anywhere you want I think it would negate these rules, if it says it effects the unit I think it would abide by all the rules mentioned. The Space Marine Codex is pretty solid, the Psychic Powers section has caused the most controversy.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Silverdale, WA

Actually, the Power states that you place the blast marker over any unit not in assault withon 12" of the psyker. Then it goes on to say that enemy models fully under the blast marker must make the initiative roll off. So we target a unit, but affect a model (or models).

The BGB rules for blast weapons are very clear about casualties coming from anywhere in the unit. We assume they mean anywhere in LOS and range.

The vortex rules seem pretty clear about the model being affected not the unit. I'm saying this because the codex goes on to say that the model is destroyed without a saving throw blah blah blah. the blast weapon section in the BGB merely tells us that the mdels are hit. Even if it didn't mention anything further, we would still be able to continue because we have to move to the removing casualties section. The vortex rules don't allow us to go to the removing casualties section. They simply tell us that models completely under the template are destroyed upon initiative fail.

Again, you must decide if the psychic powers follow the shooting rules in a "pick and choose" method or an "all or nothing" method before any solid deision can be made. Consistency is the key.

 
   
 
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