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I'll try to make this short and sweet. Situation: A unit is inside a transport. The transport is partially surrounded by enemy troops or impassable terrain, limiting the amount of space in which the embarked unit can deploy. If the unit tries to disembark, some models will not be able to be deployed because of the surrounding enemies/terrain. Page 62 of the BGB only covers the situation of a forced disembarkation (ie, excess models are removed as casualties), but does not cover voluntary disembarkations. So what happens in this situation? Is the unit forced to remain inside the vehicle (as they cannot be partially embarked/disembarked), or would the excess be considered as being "forced to disembark" (as they were part of a unit that disembarked) and thus be removed as casualties?

A unit cannot partially deploy. You may have them exit if you wish, but any that cannot due to enemies or impassible terrain are destroyed.

If it's a land raider or rhino you should do what my beardy friends do- deploy some models on top of the vehicle to avoid casaulties.  It works, RAW, as the models don't occupy the same space.  We draw the line, though, at allowing the vehicle to move while still having the guys standing on top of it, as that would break the rule on how far an infantry model may move.

- Oaka

Posted by Oaka on 07/30/2006 11:18 AM
It works, RAW, as the models don't occupy the same space.

No, it does not 'work' according to RAW because they are occupying the same space on the table.

Oaka:

The diagram on page 62 shows the acceptable zones of disembarktation from a vehicle, and placing models on top of the vehicle is not in the accepted zone.


Also, the basic movement rules on page 15 don't allow models to move "into/through the space occupied by a friendly model. . ."

Since it is physically impossible to have a model in the same space as another model, I'm going to safely assume that they are refering to the act of placing friendly models on top of each other.

Placing a model on top of another model (even a vehicle) is not allowed.

Well if that's true I'll have to let them know.  Here are some other examples that we frequently deal with, what are your judgements on these:

1.  Tau Devilfish on a high flying base, with firewarriors disembarking under the tank.

2.  Land Raider is destroyed, terminator squad inside disembarks onto the top of the vehicle while remaining 2" away from the access points.

3.  Ork Trukk transporting full Warboss plus Nob retinue is destroyed.  Ork player wants his whole unit to be in the Trukk wreck for cover saves, but the models can't physically fit on top of the model, even though they were just inside it as a transported unit.

- Oaka

1. i would say that as a skimmer cannot finish its move over other models then other models cannot finish there move under it.


2. + 3. This is shown on p.62 of the rule book, the picture shows that you must disembark within two inches of the outside of the vehicle otherwise you could never trap someone in a landraider because you could get out in the middle of it and still be two inches away. The moral of that is, if you let your land raider be surrounded and destroyed take it like a man, they are dead!

Ah, but all you have to do to trap occupants in a vehicle is be within 1" of the access points.  It wouldn't matter if the unit could deploy on top of the vehicle and be 1" away from enemy models, they would still count as destroyed.

- Oaka

First of all, you need new friends.

Nothing can be done about the skimmer on the ridiculously high base except to taunt the owner and call him a pansy.

As for your Land Raider and Trukk examples, both are incorrect per the rules. Again, the diagram in the rulebook clearly shows that you must disembark outside of the vehicle (and not on top of it).

If players claim that the vehicle is now a wreck so they can disembark directly into it, you've caught them in a bit of a conundrum, because wrecks don't have access points, only vehicles do. So either the vehicle is still a "vehicle" when they are disembarking their models (in which case the models need to be placed outside of the vehicle), or the the wreck is a "wreck" in which case there are no access points and the transported models have no means within the rules to disembark.

I agree with all of the above with one small exception. A vehicle that is destroyed when it only suffers a glancing hit.

With the penetrating hit the passengers must disembark right then and there. Most players resolve the actual damage on the vehicle first since eit is an easier way to play. But the rules say that the passengers must immediately disembark. Of course the table says something like "suffers a penetrating hit but isn't wrecked" making it seem like we are supposed to work out the damage beforehand.

With a glancing hit we are definately supposed to work out the damage to the vehicle beforehand. So, the vehicle is actually wrecked before the models disembark. Immediate is not simultaneous. So they only disembark after the vehicle is destroyed. When a vehicle is destroyed it is terrain. Now, I agree that terrain has no access points so it appears that what they meant is that there is a magical transition time between the passengers disembarking and the vehicle truly becomming a wreck. So, for intent and sportsmanship I think players should still maintain the access point disembarkation rules, and place their models outside of the wreck, but if someone really wanted to exploit the RAW there is definately room for debate.

Hmm, this is a similar albiet slightly more complex question than a few I had.  I suppose I could have added more comments here, but I have posted some simplified questions in other threads.

I suspect, if enemy models block all the exits, all the occupants die, regardless of area.

Assuming the exits are not blocked, surviving models can be placed in 2 inches of a door, including, in the wreck created by the destruction of the vehicle, assuming they clamber back into/around/on the wreck for cover.

Units can not partially disembark, voluntarily or otherwise.

?