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Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




I noticed by taking the army under the Alpha Legion banner I save a full 60pts! with cheaper infiltrate skills so this is what I end with.

HQ:
Chaos liutenent with power weapon, cc weapon, infiltrate, speed, strength, furios charge, frag nades. MOCU 112pts

Chaos liutenent with Dark blade, cc weapon, infiltrate, speed, MOCU 96pts

Elite:
Elite: Headhunter kindred 19 kroot + shaper, hyperactive nymun organ, evicerator, blood of the stalker, surefoot charm, auspex 318pts

Troop:
Carnivore kindred, 17 + shaper, evicerator, blood of the stalker + veneration charm + auspex 227pts

5*CSM with Las/plas, infiltrate 100pts
5*CSM with Las/plas, infiltrate 100pts
5*CSM with Las/plas, infiltrate 100pts
5*CSM with Las/plas, infiltrate 100pts

Fast:
Hound pack 9 kroot, 11 hound + shaper, evicerator, hyperactive nymun organ, blood of the stalker, surefoot charm, auspex 244pts

Heavy:
Hunter kindred, 9 + shaper, auspex 103pts

Total: 1500pts

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




This is what I think I will go with unless someone has any suggestions, I like units of 20 kroot as then the enemy must cause 6 wounds to force a check (as I take the first wound on the shaper)

Though I could drop a few kroot for a few more demonic gifts on the lieutenents I suppose.

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







I'd still recommend dropping a few kroot to put marks of undivided on your HQ units.  Then just infiltrate them attached to the headhunters and hound pack.  If you don't go first, you'll really appreciate the morale boost.  Losing 6 models and testing on leadership 8 is no where near as good as losing 5 models and testing on leadership 9 rerolled.  If those kroot units break on the first turn they'll most likely be useless the rest of the game.

Oh, and switch one of the auspexes to your hunter kindred.  If your enemy does have any infiltrators, you can wait until he deploys them and then put the hunter kindred exactly 18" away.  If they get the auspex roll, it is a great unit to get a free turn of shooting with.

- Oaka


   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




But the HQs don't confer the ld reroll to the squad.....or do they?

Not a bad idea though, even if I dont get the reroll they still have a higher ld. I asked a few chaos players though and they seemed to think the kroot would not get the reroll, haven't checked myself yet though.

Doesnt your squad with an auspex have to be on the table BEFORE the enemy unit in order to get to fire?

Relatively small changes though, I could do that.

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




Ok, now I can start the HQs with the 2 first turn assualting kroot squads, still not sure I get the advantage of Mocu for the kroot but will check that later.

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







Well, the way I see it, the Kroot squad gets to use the HQ's leadership, as per the rules. Characters only lose abilities when they join units that don't have those same abilities according to the universal special rules with the asterix, so the character would keep his leadership reroll. It's quite brutal, actually, as you can deploy the Kroot squad up to 12" away with Blood of the Stalker, leave a couple models back to maintain coherency to 16", then attach the infiltrating character at 18" (You can pick and choose the order your infiltrating units deploy). The unit will get the boost from his leadership, and if they pull off the first turn charge, the character will be locked in combat and get that 6" pile-in move, which should get him into base contact and an extra assault phase out of him! As for auspexes, their rules simply state that any unit equipped with an auspex can take a free turn of shooting at each enemy unit that infiltrates. There is nothing to force the unit with the auspex to be on the board first. In fact, if your opponent has an infiltrating unit, you can wait him out by setting up your lascannon units, then as soon as he deploys his unit you can deploy your headhunters with Blood of the Stalker. You might end up being 12" away from his infiltrators, which could give you 38 shots from Kroot rifles before the game even begins! I've had great luck with giving an auspex to the hunter kindred, though. More often than not, it pins a unit of scouts or stealth suits, letting my first wave get into assault even if I go second. - Oaka

   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




Well the HQs have speed anyway so they are almost always attacking first turn themselves, I think I will likely just detach the HQ once its my turn so they can attack another unit unless I really need both on 1 target.

I dont think rapid firing is possible with the use of the auspex as I have to start more than 18" away from him so at best I get to be 12.00001" away so no rapid fire. Still 20 shots is nice enough.

Sounds good though, cant wait to try this out. (course this depends on how fast my army builder dude works....)

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




Well the HQs have speed anyway so they are almost always attacking first turn themselves, I think I will likely just detach the HQ once its my turn so they can attack another unit unless I really need both on 1 target.

I dont think rapid firing is possible with the use of the auspex as I have to start more than 18" away from him so at best I get to be 12.00001" away so no rapid fire. Still 20 shots is nice enough.

Sounds good though, cant wait to try this out. (course this depends on how fast my army builder dude works....)

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




First, I have to say I love this list. It looks like it's going to be a ot of fun.

Have you considered cutting the number of Kroot in the Carnivore unit in order to boost the number of Hounds in the Kroot Pack? Since the Carnivores are I3, they'll be swinging after MEQs while the Hounds with their nice I4 will at least go simo. There are other advantages to having a larger Pack - the ability to withstand more fire and the numbers to tie up two units in assault. It's also been my experience the Carnis will have a hard time keeping up the faster moving Kroot.

C'mon, it's the first turn assault you're going for, so why not make the most of it? Drop the Carnivores, add more hounds, and bulk up the remaining CSMs. Or at least drop the Carnis, BOTS, Ven Charm, and add hounds and turn the remainig Carnis into deployment achors/quarter capturers.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




...so the character would keep his leadership reroll.


I checked this out. Look at page 38 in Codex: Chaos Space Marines (my copy is a first printing), under the Books of Chaos. "To benefit from the re-roll, all members of the unit that is testing must have the Mark of Chaos Undivided or be Followers or Steeds of a model that has."

One could argue that Kroot the HQ model is grouped with would qualify as "followers" since tht term isn't really defined. I'm sure the designers were using the word to refer to wargear purchased for a characer such as Chaos Spawns or Familiars. Thoughts?
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




Carnis where for first turn rapid fire 2nd turn assualt.

Might be an idea to trop some for more hounds though, esp since hounds only cost 6pts each and the carnies cost 8pts each.

I suppose I could drop them, but I like the idea of 20 rapid firing bolters, if there are kroot on the other side I wont want to be charging them in cover! same goes for init 5 horms or the like, they might empty the kill zone and not allow me to strike at all!

I won't be using the ld reroll, goes against designers intent as far as I am concerned, when they where writing the chaos dex (before the kroot one) they surely where not thinking of kroot allies.

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




Which you think is better, 4 las/plas squads or 3 tank hunting lascannon squads and 1 normal lascannon squad?

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







I've never quite understood having those plasma guns, as one would assume the lascannons would sit back and shoot all game... that was third edition.  However, with deepstriking land speeders and terminators in droppods now so prevalent, those plasma guns suddenly become a valuable asset.  I would keep them.  A single speeder in your rear lines could cause a problem if you had to rely on a lascannon having LOS without moving.

- Oaka


   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




Yea, the main problem with the kroot is they cannot take out skimmers and plasma is plenty powerful for that so I think I will keep them, tank hunting lascannons are nice against liths though and kroot hate liths!

Starts getting expensive to have infiltrating/tank hunting las/plas
Like 125pts each squad, though I dont think they will draw too much fire from most opponents.

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







Are you sure tankhunters works on a monolith?  I remember vaguely (before the marines had access to tankhunters in the new 'dex) that Ork tankbustaz didn't get their bonus against a monolith.

- Oaka


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

Tank Hunter does nothing against monoliths, sadly. But do eviscerators get their +2D6 penetrating roll against them? I can't remember ...

Regardless, I like the list you posted (things might have changed at this point, but I liked the original well enough), and really like the idea of combining Alpha Legion & Kroot. Makes me want to re-evaluate that box of Kroot I've been using as spareparts for mutants The only thing I don't like about your list is how gimmicky it seems: first turn charges with the HQ & hound squad, first turn rapid fire with the carnivores, first turn etc. I guess my issue is with 40k's love affair with The First Turn and not your list, which is cool and different ... and you've got a fairly decent firebase to react to the enemy and provide support.

So good stuff, and good luck!

- Boss Salvage

INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




No evicerators don't, the lith is crazy against the kroot unfortunately.

Sure I can see this list being somewhat of a one hit wonder and perhaps not the most fun to play against, alot is determined in who gets the first turn, but I just love kroot and wanted to make a decent tourny list with them and this is the best I could come up with.

Doubt they will win many tournies but I just loooove kroot so I want to field 80 of the blighters in a 1500pts game

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The KMA list consistantly wins me top 5 in my local RTT (out of 15-25 participants) and top 3 in the last RTT (where I didn't win first turn in any of my 3 games, even with the re-roll).  This next RTT I'm thinking of trying the combination you came upon.  Here's the catch, I've got to fit it into the comp rules listed in the main forum...

HQ
87 Chaos LT, Power Weapon, CCW, D. Speed, Frag, Infiltrate

Elites
316 Headhunters x 20, Shaper, Hyper, Evicerator, BOTS, SFC

Fast Attack
296 Carnivores x 10, Hounds x 15, Shaper, Hyper, Evicerator, BOTS, SFC

Troops
100 CSM x 5, Las, Plas, Infiltrate
100 CSM x 5, Las, Plas, Infiltrate
110 CSM x 5, Autocannon, Plas, Tank Hunter, Infiltrate
3?? CSM x 20, Melta x 2, Asp Champ, Power Weapon, Infiltrate, Bolt Pistol & CCW
181 Kroot Carniore x 20, Shaper

For the record, KMA has a problem with Monoliths - they can catch them but the 6's to hit a skimmer hurt.  I haven't taken one down yet, but fortunately I've only run into them in pick-up games and I tend to concentrate on the troops instead.  2-4 Lascannon shots are better against the 'liths than Evicerators and the Kroot are much happier munching through troops anyway.

   
 
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