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Martel732 wrote:
Not having to race your SR across the board has its advantages as well. You can outrange a lot of Xeno weapons with 6 shots.

Other backfield units can do that for cheaper. Not using the transport capacity, -1 to hit or hurricane bolters is a pretty significant loss of value.

What do you think the best way to build a Blood Angels army around the Thunderhawk Gunship would be for a 2k list?

I'm thinking load it with Dreads and maybe support with Jump Pack DC?

You can only load one dread on a gunship. DC with power weapons, HQ to buff them (lemartes, astorath, corbulo), DC dread or librarian dread. These embark on the gunship. Some (empty) razorbacks with lascans, assault cans, captain and primaris lieutant to reroll 1s to hit and wound. Company veterans with stormbolters/plasmaguns and chainswords/powerweapons for deepstriking. A captain with them can reroll 1s when they overcharge plasma.

Honestly I think with THAT setup, you'd be spending a bit much on all those named characters.

Chaplain, Sang Priest w/Axe, Company Ancient w/Axe, 7xDC w/Axes and Boltguns, DC Dread w/flamers, Stormraven kitted out for anti-tank plus hurricanes. 910 points.

Compare that to Astorath, Lemartes, Corbulo, 5xDC w/Axes and Boltguns, DC Dread w/flamers, Stormraven kitted out for anti-tank plus hurricanes-- 1019 points.

I'm not convinced that Astorath and Lemartes' bonuses are worth the two additional bodies (jump pack units take up two slots), though Corbulo would make a good exchange for the sang priest (additional attacks on 6s to-hit might be worth it with how many attacks are rolled on the charge, even at 21 points and corbulo being weaker than a sang priest w/axe offensively). Ancient + Chaplain gives Ld10, Ancient might also give a few extra attacks as you take losses (but probably not, in my experience)-- mostly I was trying to fill out the third elite slot due to mild OCD.

I didnt mean all 3 HQ, i meant 1 or 2. Buffing characters arent very useful when there arent a lot of models to buff.

 Puganaut wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Not having to race your SR across the board has its advantages as well. You can outrange a lot of Xeno weapons with 6 shots.

Other backfield units can do that for cheaper. Not using the transport capacity, -1 to hit or hurricane bolters is a pretty significant loss of value.

Not if it lives another 3 turns.

Martel732 wrote:

 Puganaut wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Not having to race your SR across the board has its advantages as well. You can outrange a lot of Xeno weapons with 6 shots.

Other backfield units can do that for cheaper. Not using the transport capacity, -1 to hit or hurricane bolters is a pretty significant loss of value.

Not if it lives another 3 turns.

Yeah I see your point. Personally, I think if you're not using the SR to full effect, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. May as well take 5 devs with LC in a las-back. They can claim objectives, and provide significantly more dakka output. Whilst the SR offers late game flexibility, ie swooping a unit onto an objective, I think the most value comes from playing it offensive. If you're taking a SR, you may as well actually use it. I doubt you'll fully make points back out of your army. Sure the bird might improve on its value by like, 50%, but the enemy will just tear your other stuff apart, so you'll lose point value overall.

Swooping it in, if you've gone anti-infantry, you can get close to equal value, moreso with melta. However, you also enable your CC units and dreads to get more value. If it draws fire, and dies before making back points, you've likely got enough backfield stuff to relieve that deficit.

I think it's very much a case of what you're vs'ing, and personal experience.

I still think that six 48" shors at full bs on the move is very useful. You always have the option of ramming it down people's throat. Melta is not that great anymore anyway.

Melta close up is better than lascans far Away.

Not always, and getting up close can be a real headache.

p5freak wrote:
I didnt mean all 3 HQ, i meant 1 or 2. Buffing characters arent very useful when there arent a lot of models to buff.

That's definitely fair.

I'd stick with just corbulo and a chaplain for this kind of deployment, myself, or if it was intended as nearly the sole thing you're deploying in a 1k game, adding in an ancient for the additional slot. Veterans with plasmas might also work? But I'm really not fond of them.

 Puganaut wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Puganaut wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Not having to race your SR across the board has its advantages as well. You can outrange a lot of Xeno weapons with 6 shots.

Other backfield units can do that for cheaper. Not using the transport capacity, -1 to hit or hurricane bolters is a pretty significant loss of value.

Not if it lives another 3 turns.

Yeah I see your point. Personally, I think if you're not using the SR to full effect, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. May as well take 5 devs with LC in a las-back. They can claim objectives, and provide significantly more dakka output. Whilst the SR offers late game flexibility, ie swooping a unit onto an objective, I think the most value comes from playing it offensive. If you're taking a SR, you may as well actually use it. I doubt you'll fully make points back out of your army. Sure the bird might improve on its value by like, 50%, but the enemy will just tear your other stuff apart, so you'll lose point value overall.

Swooping it in, if you've gone anti-infantry, you can get close to equal value, moreso with melta. However, you also enable your CC units and dreads to get more value. If it draws fire, and dies before making back points, you've likely got enough backfield stuff to relieve that deficit.

I think it's very much a case of what you're vs'ing, and personal experience.

I feel the middle ground may be the way to go here.

Use your stormraven from a distance for a turn or two before rushing it forward to deploy it's cargo. You may not have the option to wait if your enemy has the firepower to shoot it out of the sky while your keeping the SR at a distance, but that'll be apparent at that time and you can act accordingly.

Maybe, but the unit on board is contributing nothing while waiting to be deployed. I'd rather have it outside shooting away.

Martel732 wrote:
Maybe, but the unit on board is contributing nothing while waiting to be deployed. I'd rather have it outside shooting away.

Yeah...I find as I continue painting and waiting for the codex to drop, my lists have less and less points dedicated to melee centric BA units and opt for more long range firepower. I DO still want to have a Librarian Dread, Mephiston, and some other unit in the Stormraven, but that's basically just me being stubborn at this point.

Yeah, it's easy for your opponent to turn those units off with screens.

My latest 2K list has 16 lascannons and zero assault elements. Welcome to 8th.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, it's easy for your opponent to turn those units off with screens.

My latest 2K list has 16 lascannons and zero assault elements. Welcome to 8th.

I feel / hope that our codex specific stratagems will define a few playstyles that will make sense to BA and at least be "somewhat" competitive for those of us that have stuck it out and keep painting red power armor. I'd assume special bonuses on the turn jump pack / terminator units arrive would make sense, but looking back at Angel's Blade and Shield of Baal, they threw all kinds of different formations against the wall. None of them really stuck or gave us a winning identity, so it's hard to prepare for what's ahead.

All this uncertainty has given me some free time, however. I finally painted that stupid Plasma Obliterator so my Dev squad had a proper place to squat and I'm about to start on the Vindicator I purchased who knows how many years ago. I doubt either would make the cut if I had to win the game I was playing, but I refuse to put together and paint up any more Death Company (or Sanguinary Guard) until I have a codex in my hand...

Brothers, our suffering will (hopefully) come to an end, the codex is near. Emperor protects !

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/03/news-codexes-heroes-blood-glorygw-homepage-post-3/

Let it be good. Let it be good. Let it be good. Let it be good.

So happy. What a great day. I told my buddy Codex Too Hot and Codex So Not are the last two books of the year. I’m hoping we are the former. Cover looks good at least. Better than the traitor in green on the other book.

Hypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehype

You know, we can't honestly be worse off than we are now, I cannot wait to crack this book open and take a look. I began prepping for our Codex a while back, and built a double Battalion Detachment army at 2,000 points, leaving room for add ons like extra Storm Bolters on my Rhinos, and a Jump Pack on my Sanguinary Priest.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
You know, we can't honestly be worse off than we are now

Touch wood

 Puganaut wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
You know, we can't honestly be worse off than we are now

Touch wood

Well, if the Codex makes us worse, we will likely lose as many games as we do now, maybe a few more, so it won't change much for me anyways.

If it makes us worse I’ll be playing Red Salamanders or something until 9th. Death Company? No, those are vanguard veterans.

I'm hoping for some good info and fun strategems to be teased soon. Relics, too.

More flavor and more fun tricks to allow for added melee shenanigans and unique builds, from Archangels/first company + Sanguinary Guard to Descent of Angels style to mech heavy with rhinos and razorbacks, to death company heavy. I want each to be fun and viable.

Here's hoping it'll be a fun codex.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additional info from the News and Rumors section:

Apparently the Blood Angels Chapter Tactic is +1" added to any Charge rolls and Advance rolls for any infantry and Dreadnoughts.

Take it with a grain of salt. I for one wouldn't mind this, and actually prefer it over the much more conditional +1 strength/furious charge of previous editions. Assuming it's correct or true, of course.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Going from 28% to get a charge off to 41.6% is pretty sweet, with Lemartes DC are getting in 2/3 of the time from deep strike. That's pretty mad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 Puganaut wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
You know, we can't honestly be worse off than we are now

Touch wood

Well, if the Codex makes us worse, we will likely lose as many games as we do now, maybe a few more, so it won't change much for me anyways.

Yeah this is true... but one can hope! If we're not top tier that isn't a big deal, just really hoping we can at least pull off something fun and cheesy at some point. Who knows, maybe we'll even become a viable codex :p serious touch wood.

Got tabled by astra militarum yesterday night. Game could have been over already after turn 2 but I managed to steal the initiative with a command re-roll. I was already bleeding after his turn 1 shooting phase but we decided to keep on playin: morale of the story: at the end of turn 6 I just had a single lascannon marine alive. We were playing the relic mission.

Here is what I used:

Battalion detachment:

captain jump pack, power sword and stormshield
captain jump pacl, power sword and stormshield

5 tactical marines, lascannon
5 tactical marines, lascannon
5 tactical marines, lascannon

stormraven: hurricanes bolters sponsons, twin assault cannon, stormstrike missile and multi-melta

5x company veterans, jump pack, plasma gun, ss

5x company veterans, jump pack, plasma gun, ss

5x death company (why did I even use them? Oh yes because they are painted beautifully and I just love them even if they suck and they indeed sucked), jump pack: boltgun chainsword and 1x TH

razorback, TL lascannon
razorback, TL lascannon
razoraback, TL lascannon

devastator squad, 4x missile launcher
devastator squad, 4x missile launcher


As espected he bubble wrapped all his precious tanks which fires tons of shot without line of sight and with 200" range (LOL?) with tons of conscript. He also had some nasty scions (they even fire 1 more shot if they roll a 6 to hit LOL?).

I basically had to deep-strike my plasma squad close to the only leman russ which wasn't bubble wrapped.

Altought i rolled pretty good with my company veterans and, thanks to their ss, they absorbed tons of damage (have to say I got really lucky with dice tehre) I rolled so badly with my stormraven who basically did nothing and quickly died on turn 1. I m stobborn but I think I have to play 2 of them. That -1 to hit isn't enough to protect it from all the dakka around. During his turn 1 he dropped his scions, dealt tons of damage and start hammering with these, I dont know how they are called tanks that do not require line of sight. DC, who was embarked onto the raven, died miserabily against 20 conscript, while they were desperately tryin to reach the tanks.

I also have 0 expectations for the new codex, right now I feel so pissed that I always get tabled every game I play with BA. I know I'm not playing poorly because we have 2 very experienced players in our group (the one I played yesterday) and they both agree that, no matter the BA list you bring, they suck even if you carefully select the priority targets.

 Red__Thirst wrote:

Apparently the Blood Angels Chapter Tactic is +1" added to any Charge rolls and Advance rolls for any infantry and Dreadnoughts.

That would be slightly underwhelming. I am hoping that this is only half of the trait. It is not bad and is fairly fluffy but on its own it is not going to make much of a difference.

Why bother with meat shields ? Shoot the tanks directly. Did you have a captain near your lascan razorbacks/dev squads/tac squads ? If no, your first tactical fault. Did you have a primaris lieutenant near your lascan razorbacks/dev squads/tac squads ? No, another tactical fault. I usually manage to kill a leman russ in one turn with 4 lascan shots, rerolling 1s to hit and 1s to wound. Hopefully we will get normal lieutenants who can embark on razorbacks, reducing the number of deployment units. You didnt give your captains any shooting capabilities. They have BS2+. If i decide to deepstrike i always have some (rapid fire) guns, if i fail the charge (chance of fail is 72%) i at least had some shooting.
Right now BA sucks at CC, hopefully the soon to be released codex will change that.