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Hello all,

My wife has a particular vendetta against a friend of ours and wants to basically make him eat crow. He's a great loser but a real @*$& as a winner.

We're getting ready to start WH40K, he is going IG and she is going Eldar.  We're doing 400pt Combat Patrols and the lists haven't been solidified as yet.  I can damn near guarantee that his list will include an Armored Fist squad and very likely the rest will be troops.  Can you folks suggest a list or two for Eldar that would be specifically geared to countering his IG?

I know it's hard without an exact list to target but the assumptions listed above are all I can go for now.

I wish I could say "take a seer council in a falcon." It would be about 400 points and could shred any guard army of that size, but both the falcon (armor 34) and the farseers (3 wounds) are prohibited. In fact, this is an interesting puzzle since all Eldar skimmers are prohibited (all armor 34) except vypers, which I don't recommend in a game this small, and no Eldar HQ unit is allowed.

Scorpions are the best thing for killing lots of guard, but without transports it might be hard to get close to them.

If you have the models, take a Sam-Hain list with just little units of jetbikes (count as troops) led by warlocks with witchblades and destructor.

A storm guardian swarm with lots of flamers might also work. Can give a couple of small units haywire grenades for cheap to deal with the vehicles (and a witchblade warlock), and the whole army can fleet for increased mobility and outfight guard in hand-to-hand.

Aren't Warlocks disallowed without a Farseer in the army?

Convince your opponent it's an "oddity" and should be allowed. 

hehe

I'll steer her in the direction of the Storm Guardian list...though I'm not too sure that will do well against the Ork player and the Witchhunter player...specialization is a pain.

Well, scorpions really are your best all-around combat troops against guard. With 3 attacks each flat-footed hitting on 4's and 3's and wounding on 3s (4s for orks) they chew up anything with a low armor save. With high initiative and plasma grenades they'll always be atttacking first, and with 3+ saves they're not vulnerable to heavy bolters (or flamers) the way that guardians and other aspect warriors are. With haywire grenades you only need a couple of hits to take out any vehicle regardless of armor, and you can get a str9 power fist.

If you can infiltrate them close enough and manage not to eat too many plasma shots, scorpions are best against orks and guard both (and guard-heavy WH). Or maybe a blended list with some of each?

vypers with dual shuriken cannons will really ruin any guard player's day. They don't have bolters, so they will only be able to hurt the skimmers with their special weapons. I would suggest maybe 3 vypers with dual shuriken cannons and spirit stones, and then bring a bunch of dire avengers (good all round troops, devastating with BS4 shuricats) and those should prolly take the heat off your Infiltrating scorpions. Maybe throw in a small ranger squad too to keep their heads down.

Alternatively, you could use the Ulthwe Strike force and throw down webway portals with Vypers and War walkers screaming out of them, and BS4 Defenders. That would really be annoying. Really. Although that list may not be viable when the new book comes out.

One volley from a chimera or squad-based autocannon wrecks a vyper. You'd be lucky to get one shot off. It's reasonable to assume that most guard infantry will be hiding in cover (that's why I'm pushing for flamers), so statistically a vyper with dual cannons would get about 1 or 2 guardsmen before being toasted.

USF has the same problem as my suggestions: warlocks and farseers aren't allowed in Combat Patrol, so there's nobody to carry the web gate.

However, a couple of vypers with CTM and missile launchers would be a different story (missile launchers for the long range and pin checks). Once the chimera goes down, a mostly-immobile guard player wouldn't even be able to get a shot at them. They're expensive, but if they can't be touched then that's not a problem.

Ok, here is what the IG player is bringing to the table:

8 Hardened Veterans w/flashlights
1 Vet Sgt w/ carapace armor, laspistol/ccw, mastercrafted

1 Armored Fist Squad (9 grunts w/ flashlights)
1 Vet Sgt w/ carapace armor, shotgun
1 stripped down Chimera (multilaser only)

1 Armored Fist Squad (9 grunts w/ flashlights)
1 Vet Sgt w/ carapace armor, laspistol/ccw
1 stripped down Chimera (multilaser only)

 

Here is the first list I generated for her.  Lemme know what you think:

  12 Storm Guardians w/ CCW/shuriken pistol and 2 flamers

  6 Fire Dragons w/ Melta Bombs and Fusion Gun
  1 Fire Dragon w/ Melta Bombs, Tank hunter, and Fusion Gun

  6 Striking Scorpions w/ Haywire/Plasma Grenades; Mandiblaster; CCW/Shuriken Pistol
  1 Striking Scorpion Exarch w/ Mandiblaster; Crushing Blow; CCW/Shuriken Pistol

IMO, if you really want to max your chances on the list, fire dragons are overkill (even a shuriken pistol can hurt a chimera anywhere but the front, and you don't need the low-AP firepower against guard or orks). Giving the storm guardians haywire grenades will give you plenty of antitank power.

Since you can *always* infiltrate in the combat patrol basic mission, stealth for the scorpion exarch is definitely worth it.

Ok, cool. I'm going to need to revisit this as it turns out anyway. The IG player just called me and is thinking of re-doing his entire list and removing both Chimera's...sigh

hehe, why not a bright lance instead of a missile launcher on the vyper.

Posted By whitedragon 08/08/2006 6:09 PM
hehe, why not a bright lance instead of a missile launcher on the vyper.

The main reason is the 48" range.  A vyper with EML can reach more targets while standing off at a safe distance.  If it has to close to 36" to shoot, even with CTM something in a guard army (chimera weapons are all range 36") might be able to creep up on it and take it out.

But also plasma missiles are AP4 (kill even stormtroopers) and cause pin checks, while a krak missile is as effective as a brightlance against vehicles of armor 12 or less (i.e. chimeras).

Ok, here is the IG guys final list:

So basically I need HTH and Blast Radius weapons...suggestions?

Infantry platoon
Command Squad Junior Officer with CCW and Laspistol, 4 Guardsmen 2X meltagun 1X Flammer 1X Grenade launcher
Infantry Squad Vetran SGT with Stormbolter and Carapace armor 9 Gaurdsmen 8X lasgun 1X Meltagun
Infantry Squad Vetran SGT with Boltgun and Carapace armor 9 Gaurdsmen 8X lasgun 1X Grenade Launcher

Hardened Veterans
9 Veterans 1X Flamer 2X Grenade Launcher 3X Shotguns 3X Laspistol & CCW Veteran SGT Power weapon and CCW Carapace armor and Master crafted weapon.

Scorpions (infiltrating) are still solid here. Armor saves are the key: 5+ saves are very vulnerable to all those flamers.

Against this list warp spiders are also a good bet. Warp spiders are weak against marines (becuase of str3) and plasma-heavy armies, but strong against hordes with T3 crappy armor saves. Because of their mobility, they can pick their assaults and a flamer will never get near them. With a tooled exarch and both powers, they would own this guard list. Just don't forget that if you're going to assault, the rank-and-file spiders can't fire their (rapid-fire) spinners that turn.

Note that both scorpions and warp spiders are troop choices in a biel-tan list.

Groovy thanks