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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




 Hi there! Hooray for first posts!

 Anyways, I'm getting back into FB after a few years off. I'm an avid 40k player, but finally decided to jump back into Fantasy. Anyways, Dakka Dakka gets mentioned frequently on a board I'm part of, and so I'd thought I'd post my first shot at a list for some constructive criticism.

 Anyways, here goes:

 Tomb King - 311
 Golden Ankra, Flail of Skulls, Chariot.

 3 Chariots - 220
 Champion, Standard, Musician, Icon of the Sacred Eye.

 Liche Priest -160
 Cloak of the Dunes, Dispel Scroll (Hierophant)

 Liche Priest - 160
 Enkil's Kanopi, Dispel Scroll

 Liche Priest - 140
 Dispel Scroll

12 Skeleton Warriors - 96
Bows

12 Skeleton Warriors - 96
Bows

12 Skeleton Warriors - 96
Bows

8 Skeleton Heavy Horsemen - 163
Champion, Standard, Musician

8 Skeleton Heavy Horsemen - 163
Champion, Standard, Musician

2 Tomb Swarm Bases - 90

Tomb Scorpian - 85

Screaming Skull Catapult - 110
Skulls of the Foe

Screaming Skull Catapult - 110
Skulls of the Foe

 - There it is.
 The only reservation I have with the Tomb Kings is the seeming lack of Magic. It seems that Magic dominates certain aspects of the table, but with 7th Edition around the corner, that looks like it'll change. Regardless, after talking with a few of my locals, I've got hopes for this list.

 Anyways, tear it apart!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cherry Hill, NJ

The most effective tombkings lists I have seen have at a minimum 3 units of chariots and some Ushabti. I don't know how effective your Heavy Cav would be against most armies due to the fact that they will still crumble if they don't win combat. Withb 7th ed around the corrner remember that to get a rank bonus (even for cav) you need 5 models to fill that rank.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I'll address your comment first before the actual list.

1. Magic - At first glance you may think they lack magic, but with your list (untouched by any comments I might make) you'd be casting 4 spells per turn.  Note that each of these spells automatically casts regardless of the power dice you roll.  The dice are simply there so your opponent knows how hard things will be to dispel.

Okay, now the list...

Why groups of 12 archers?  I'd just go with the basic 10 and leave it at that.  12 spread out just make the units more cumbersome unless you play with lots of hills.

Tomb Kings Cavalry are generally not worth the points spent on them.  Cavalry usually do good in other armies because of their better than usual armor saves and quick movement and Tomb Kings really can't take advantage of either.  Armor 4+ for units of 8 Cav will mean they will end up as pincushions really fast.  If you want fast moving then stick with 1 unit of cav and gor for chariots and/or carrion.  Also, in general Champion units for basic skellies aren't worth the points.  you are just opening them up to being mauled by a character through a challenge (this can be lifted if you plan on putting a combat oreinted character in the unit).

I'm curious as to what role the tomb swarms will play in this list?  Most people use them as a speed bump they put in front of large units of skellies and Tomb Guard but you don't have any big slow moving infantry to worry about.

While Enkil's Kanopi is a very useful item, its also highly situational.  Unless you are facing armies with lots of "Remains in Play Spells" I'd suggest using the hieratic jar instead.  It gives you that extra chance to make sure you get off that critical incantation.

If you are going to put your Tomb King in a chariot I'd highly recommend taking Golden Eye of Rah-Nutt.  Otherwise you may find him having to hoof it across the battlefield do to lucky artillery shots (there is no "Look out sir" rule since you need at least 5 rank and file).

Also, the Icon of the Sacred Eye is sort of wasted on the Chariot unit.  Impact hits don't need to roll, "to-hit" and the +1 doesn't affect the d3 roll for impact hits.

Lastly, I want to point out the lack of any backbone units like Tomb Guard.  One of the easiest ways for undead to win a combat is to win combat resolution and outnumber their opponents causing them to autobreak.  You don't have anything and are pretty much relying on first round combat resolutions because none of your units are meant for combat after the initial charge.

So, to sum up I'd make these changes...

Tomb King - Golden Eye of Rah-Nutt, Flail of Skulls, Chariot, Light Armor (288)

Remove Standard from Chariot unit

Replace Enkil's Kanopi with Hieratic Jar

Remove 2 Archers from each archer unit

Remove 1 Cav unit and Tomb Swarms and drop the champion from the cav unit you are keeping

Those trimmings would leave you plenty of points to eitehr buy a nice big unit of Tomb Guard (Highly suggested) or to buy whatever you think you need.


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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Fantastic!

Let me defend my choices (although I did make a bunch of changes as well - more to follow):

The Icon of the Sacred Eye was mainly there for the Tomb King. 2+ to hit (Most of the time), with Str7 on the charge (generally a 2+ to wound), doubling unsaved wounds from the Flail of Skulls? Even heavy Cav taking saves on a -4 would be pained by this. It's a small difference, but I'll take it. (No change)

10 Archers instead of 12? Sure. Don't know what I was thinking. (Dropped 2 from each)

Tomb Swarms. I was pained by only able to have 1 choice, but an undead, poison swarm base for 45 pts? Thats fear, and 5 poison attacks per. I figured they'd use tunneling, and go for war machines and/or unit rears. It may be a throw away, but if it turns around a big unit for a turn, all the better - If I can get a rear charge with Cav or Chariots, even better. Either that, or they gun for war machines. (I'll keep these for now.)

Heavy Cav. Yep, I got schooled with these. Needing 5 to make a rank with 7th Ed will hurt this. Essentially they were supposed to be a hammer/anvil with the King's chariots and/or Swarms. Chances are, I'll keep One unit, beef it up to 10 and try the same. I'll also drop the command, as that makes sense, since there is no character there.

This of course leaves me one block less an army. I'm a big 40k player, and in that, Troops make your game (So, Core choices here). My % of Core:2000 pts at this point is low for my liking, and so I'm either looking at another unit of chariots (with no Character to lead them) OR taking some Ushabti (No, they're not Core). 3 for 195 pts? Are they worth it?

Either I'm looking at 3 Ushabti and the swarms, or 19 Tomb Guard (and one slot for a Priest). Strangely enough, I think I'll go with the Ushabti, and see what happens. With the trimmings (Cav, command, 6 archers) and adding the Ushabti, that gives me 35 pts. I can put the Brooch of the Great Desert on the King, giving me 4 dispels, or maybe stick the Jar in there after all.

Agree/Disagree? Ideas for 35 pts?
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Icon of the Sacred Eye - Its personal choice and I do see where you are going with it.  In the end you like it, I don't... no biggie. 

Tomb Swarms - I'm not sure they are necessary for anti-wartank given the Tomb Scorpion and number of archers present, but at least they serve a purpose.

Heavy Cav - Changes make perfect sense.  Personally I'd get rid of both units but I left one in before since its obvious you want to try them out.  Definately go to 10 for 7th edition.. good call.

Ushabti - They are absolute bears.  They will not break large units of concentrated infantry but they will tear through smaller, more specialized troops and are one of the few units that can withstand a cavalry charge in a Tomb Kings list.  Personally I'd go for Tomb Guard.. but then.. I love tomb guard.

As for your spare 35 pts.. I'd have more suggestions if I had my book in front of me.. but what about the Banner of the Undying Legion for your cavalry or 2nd chariot unit or it you go tomb guard definately get the icon of rakaph (can't remember points cost but its 35-40 or so).  ALternitively both suggestions for the points are good ideas... just remember the points limit for magic items (100 for lord 50 for heroes).

I'd love to see the final list when you are done tweaking it.  While I don't play my TK much anymore (largely because newer players often can't muster 2000 pts here).. They are still my favorite army.


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cherry Hill, NJ

For Tomb Kings Light Cav > Heavy Cav. Drop both units of heavy and pick up another unit of chariots and 2 units of 5 light cav. This will give you a decent flankin for and some more ranged attacks to use against large enemy targets. Chariots in a Tomb King army are very resliant and are the best core choice that you can take,

I do agree that the tomb scorpions would be much better given the new swarm rules in 7th ed. Swarms are mainly used as speed bumbs for cav and heavy infantry to hold them up untill the rest of the army is ready to deal with them.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Hmn. I've been tweaking, and then I saw Negativemoney's reply. I had a few questions of my own about this:

1. The changes you suggest are banking in around 350 points, where the two units of Heavy Cav weigh in at just over 250. Where would I be scrounging that up again?

2. Since Tomb Swarms are undead, the biggest change to Swarms already applied to them, and so, Tomb Swarms are in fact getting slightly cooler. Since they have a defined role, why confine to conformity over a sound tactic? (If in theory, at least.)

Past that, I'm still looking. It looks like Ushabti are making the cut. I wanna try for 4 however, and get the Unit strength up, since the breaks happen at US 5.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cherry Hill, NJ

You are looking at about 326 points from the heavy cav (163x2) so you just need to find another 24 points and if the archers are droped to 10 models each you will be at having 48 points free from them giving you a total of 374 points to spend on the 2 units of light cav and the 1 unit of chariots. Not sure how much command for the charriots is or if you have included that in there with them but that would be a nice place to spend the points.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Ahhh, I see. That was entirely my fault, having dropped the commands in the Cav units beforehand, and that took them to 128 pts a piece.

I apologize, my bad.

 Now, the extra Chariot unit seems like a decent idea, but 2 units of light Cav? Some mobile shooting seems good in theory, but would an extra 10 shots really be worth the points I'd be spending on them? If the Light Cav was more reliable in a charge, then I could see the usefulness of them as flankers, but they don't seem to be accomplishing much, past maybe holding up some marching if my tunnelers don't show up turn 2.

 Past that, they just seem like somewhat more expensive pincushions out there.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cherry Hill, NJ

Don't think of it as mobile shooting but rather mobile Flanking units that can aid in combat resolution bonuses when your chariots charge. Because of the large amount of priests that you have you should have little problem getting them into a units flank to remove thier rank bonuses. As long as you have 3 alive they will cause flanking and can turn the battle into your favor. Remember that that 3 light cav + 3 chariots = US 15 and if you charge a unit of atmost 22 models you should have little problem making them auto break.

Basicly what you want to do with them is keep them in the shadow of the chariots untill the turn you are ready to charge with them and then put them into possition to flank. Most of your opponents will want to take shots at your chariot units more inparticular the one with the Tomb King in it. Use this to your advantage by having those units of cav come out of no where and hit them where it hurts.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Okay, heres what it's come down too;

Tomb King - 311
Chariot, Flail of Skulls, Eye of Rah-nut, Icon of Rulership, L. Armor + Shield.

3 Chariots - 220
Command, Icon of the Sacred Eye

Liche Priest - 160 (Heirophant)
Cloak of Dunes, Heriatic Jar

Liche Priest - 165
Dispel Scroll x2

Liche Priest - 165
Dispel Scroll x2

5 Light Horsemen - 70

5 Light Horsemen - 70

10 Warriors - 80
Bows

10 Warriors - 80
Bows

10 Warriors - 80
Bows

Skull Catapult - 110
Skulls of the Foe

Skull Catapult - 110
Skulls of the Foe

Tomb Scorpian - 85

Tomb Scorpian - 85

3 Ushabti - 195

I'm liking this right now. As it is, it leaves me with 14 pts to play with, but I'll most likely mount one of the Priests for some extra movement. The Heirophant will mostly hide, using the Cloak for mobility as he pops off his Incantations. The mounted one will keep up with flankers and chariots that the Heirophant won't and the one on foot will augment the Warriors and Usabti (which I imagine will be in the middle).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cherry Hill, NJ

Mounting one of the priests is a solid Idea this way you can have him move up with your fast cav and give them that extra push when the time comes. Other than that the list is starting to look more solid. If you have it built play a few games and let us know the results.
   
 
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