Ork Mobs & Fearless

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**12thRonin**

Could someone point me at the page where Ork mobs at their max size are fearless (or whatever condition sets a mob to be fearless) in either the regular or feral list? I've looked through my ork book and the PDF for the ferals and can't find it.

TIA

**snooggums**

The mob check is based on how many boys are in the squad, so a unit of 10 Tankbustas will not automatically pass the mob check even at max size, but any mob of 12 or more living boys will.

**12thRonin**

Thanks snooggums. Not that many people around here play Orks and I didn't read into the Mob rules trying to find it.

**snooggums**

Note that they are not fearless so even if they automatically pass the mob test they don't take the wounds for being fearless.

**Saldiven**

I think your interpretation is right, Snoogums, but the reasoning incorrect.

The text of the No Retreat! rule on page 48 of the BGB, first paragraph, first and second sentences reads:

"It's not uncommon for units to be immune to Morale checks for losing a close combat, or to automatically pass them for some reason. They may be Fearlesss, subject to a vow, a walker or be affected by some other special rule."

So, automatcally passing the morale test is the same as being Fearless, as far as the No Retreat! rule is concerned. However, it could be argued that the orc mob doesn't actually "automatically pass" the morale test, they just get a second chance with another, different test, if they fail their morale test.

So, I believe a mob of 12+ orcs would be unbreakable in assault, but would still not take the No Retreat! wounds (but not because they are not Fearless). Just wanted to clarify this in case someone went away from this thread thinking that only Fearless models were the ones subject to the No Retreat! rule.

Sal.

**skyth**

The conditions that would be required to have a mob of 12+ orks take a no retreat wound, assuming they were vulnerable to it, would have to be quite rare...

**yakface**

However, it could be argued that the orc mob doesn't actually "automatically pass" the morale test, they just get a second chance with another, different test, if they fail their morale test.

There is no argument about it.

The only two conditions for being subject to No Retreat! wounds are:

1) If the unit is immune to Morale checks for losing a close combat.
2) The unit automatically passes Morale checks.

The Ork size check is neither of these things therefore Orks are never subject to the No Retreat! rule.

**snooggums**

Posted By Saldiven 08/13/2006 3:17 PM
I think your interpretation is right, Snoogums, but the reasoning incorrect.

The text of the No Retreat! rule on page 48 of the BGB, first paragraph, first and second sentences reads:

"It's not uncommon for units to be immune to Morale checks for losing a close combat, or to automatically pass them for some reason. They may be Fearlesss, subject to a vow, a walker or be affected by some other special rule."

So, automatcally passing the morale test is the same as being Fearless, as far as the No Retreat! rule is concerned. However, it could be argued that the orc mob doesn't actually "automatically pass" the morale test, they just get a second chance with another, different test, if they fail their morale test.

So, I believe a mob of 12+ orcs would be unbreakable in assault, but would still not take the No Retreat! wounds (but not because they are not Fearless). Just wanted to clarify this in case someone went away from this thread thinking that only Fearless models were the ones subject to the No Retreat! rule.

Sal.

We have the same logic, note that I said they wouldn't have taken the wounds for being fearless. I meant 'cannot fail a mob check if more than 12 models', which is similar to automatically passing in that you cannot fail, I had forgotten that No Retreat had that exact wording.

**Shadow_Strike**

Most people just dont roll when they have at least 12 boyz in a mob and say they auto-pass.
In reality, you still roll, and if you roll higher than the number of models in the squad, you fail. Which is never, but it doesnt mean they auto-pass.