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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Troll country

RAW now works for GW because it is the most simple way to resolve any issues with rules.

 


- I am the troll... feed me!

- 5th place w. 13th Company at Adepticon 2007 Championship Tourney

- I love Angela Imrie!!!

http://40kwreckingcrew.com/phpBB2/index.php

97% 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Unfortunately, if their FAQs are any indication, they don't understand the rules anyway, so their "RAW" is just as random as any of their other rulings.

So in the end, they've made neither camp happy, and have only built another monument to their cluelessness.


"I've still got a job, so the rules must be good enough" - Design team motto.  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Troll country

Time to break out Starship Troopers!

- I am the troll... feed me!

- 5th place w. 13th Company at Adepticon 2007 Championship Tourney

- I love Angela Imrie!!!

http://40kwreckingcrew.com/phpBB2/index.php

97% 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





A bizarre array of focusing mirrors and lenses turning my phrases into even more accurate clones of

I'd say it's to cut down on "development costs" (notice quotes). RAW + dice off = win?

Unfortunately, if their FAQs are any indication, they don't understand the rules anyway, so their "RAW" is just as random as any of their other rulings.


Most of the FAQ answers in the latest batch agree with the RAW I've seen in YMDC.

WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS

2009, Year of the Dog
 
   
Made in fi
Been Around the Block




Come on folks, you need to be understanding here. To get their FAQs in passable condition, GW would need to hire one (1) extra part-time employee on minimum wage. To get that kind of money, Tom Kirby would need to take one unpaid day per year! And who are we to subject honest working people to such deprivation?

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

No they wouldn't need to hire anyone. Something called "admin work" make the games development guys take the Dakka, Adepticon, Warseer (pick one) walk down them and answer or agree/disagree with the conclusiion if the list already has it. Then post that sucker. Two hours work-viola!!!

 

And here's the fun part-just put it out as a a Beta test to get feedback, take an extra hour to incorporate the feedback to correct glitches and there you go-DONE.


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





What would be nice is if the various indy tournaments and web communities out there pooled their resources and put together a mutually agreeable and relatively complete FAQ. If it caught on, we could just ignore this farce. I suppose the Adepticon rulings, along with some of the YMDC discussions would be a good place to start. I'd be willing to lend a hand, but I've got too much on my plate at the moment to coordinate everything myself. Besides that, it'd be too much effort to go to waste if nobody picked up on it.

Not like I'm ever expecting it to happen. That'd just be the ideal solution.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





What would be nice is if the various indy tournaments and web communities out there pooled their resources and put together a mutually agreeable and relatively complete FAQ


Well I believe it is very possible..

Sites and groups like Adeptus Windy City and Adeptus AZ which are based by gamers who are all local to each other would be a great way to start.

Then go to all of the local stores and get together with the owners and such and make a set of rules that everyone in your area can agree to.

It's like making a house rule, but on a bigger scale.

Granted it will probably never get to be a national consensus no matter where you live...

 

EDIT: Also if any Tournament organizers out there would in fact take the time to do something like this and post it with the rest of the tournament information then people will have no excuse to argue a rule if they signed up.

This might also be a way to get around comp and reset sportsmanship scores. Comp being "army list is cheesy" and sportsmanship being "F THIS GAME *throws dice*"

 


Can you D.I.G. it? 
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Da Southern New Hampshire!

Someone should ask Andy Chambers why the rules are so badly written.

Edit: I just remembered, does he even work at GW anymore?
None-the-less, someone.

If at first you don't succeed, you fail. 
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan





Fayetteville NC

Andy Chambers left some time ago. I believe is, in part, the writer for Starship Troopers.

Have I really been playing 40K for nearly 30 years? 
   
Made in us
Plastictrees



Amongst the Stars, In the Night

More like the bean counters fired him two+ years ago, and then fired Pete Haines a few months later. Both which I think were major mistakes. Why? Nobody knows for sure, but rumor was that Chambers was ticked that the 40kv4 rules were going to print before being finished & the kinks worked out, along side other corporate interference with the design team.

OT Zone: A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villany
The Loyal Slave learns to Love the Lash! 
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

No one really knows the reason for chambers leaving, but it did happen when the 4th house of 40k was in trine.

Regardless, The excuses as to why 40k small niggling bits thatt need to be worked out, and are forgotten, will be the fall of this game. Its hard to find people promoting this game to new players anymore. The only people who play are the vets.

Todays GW stock quote is "SELL".

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Baltimore, MD

Who actually wrote V4?  I'm assuming the reason there aren't FAQ's for either the core rules or the newer codices is because the staffer who wrote them either hasn't been told to write errata, or has enough pull that he can avoid doing it.  For some reason, I get the idea that somehow there is a vicious little office political fight going on, and the errata is paying the price.  There's simply no other reason to answer, for instance, the Drop Pod Question, which they openly ask in White Dwarf!  GW knows there are unanswered, and basically unanswerable questions, and does absolutely nothing.  This isn't incompotence, this is a temper tantrum.

Anyway, for whatever reason GW has decided that they don't want to organize or run the major tournaments anymore, at least in the US.  Even the GTs they do run have no ability to make rulings, so all they're doing is putting up terrain and letting people play.  I agree with an earlier post when they suggested having the half dozen or so biggest Indy GT's standardize a rules packet.  That way, the biggest tournaments all use similar rules. 

Otherwise, we're stuck with what GW seems to want anyway: people gaming in their basements (either literally or metaphorically), with the host getting to set house rules.  It worked great in 1987, and if it weren't for the internet, it probobly would still work. 

Online, of course, it's easier to rally around a common problem rather then a common solution.  While I like the idea of a standard, any standard for rules, there are those who insist only using GW's RAW (of which a strict reading seems to imply that they aren't really rules, just guidelines), or even to insist on their own house rules. 

One final consideration: Tennis is a major, worldwide competitive sport, and the major tournaments can't even agree on what sort of surface to play on.  Major League baseball has only loose guidelines on the dimensions of the outfield of a ball park.   I guess my point is that Gamers aren't the only provincial, stubborn iconoclasts.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 11,000pts
Cygnar: 350pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in southern England.

Gamers will always argue but there would be a lot less to argue about if the rules were better organized.

It's not just a few minor points that need sorting out. Big, core areas are a mess. For example, there are basic problems in LoS and the procedures for rolling wounds and saves.

I like the idea of a standardised rule packet. Could it be organised by Dakka, taking on the current packets available and combining them?



Petition to stop ratification of EU Article 13 on Internet Copyright

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Well, like I said, I'd be willing to lend a hand. Being a programmer, I do a good bit of technical writing. I just don't have the qualifications to coordinate and organize the overall effort. In order to work, the project would need people who actually knew what they were doing instead of random 'net users with boundless enthusiasm, but little skill and a short attention span. It might be a good idea to get together a short list of potentially helpful people to contact, just to gauge interest.

The reality is, of course there will be dissenters who refuse to use a publicly organized FAQ, but the goal ought to be to come up with something which attracts as many people as possible by making rulings that make sense and which make games more balanced and more enjoyable. It should stick fairly close to RAW, clarifying and tweaking rules rather than full-out changing them. That way, any whiners who don't like the finished product will have as little as possible in the way of logical argument against it.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Troll country

I think if GW does not get a grip back on the rules soon their little empire with soon tumble. I am not going to continue paying the money they want for their stuff when they are putting out pure 100% rubbish for FAQs now. I have played Starship Troopers by Andy C. and it was a blast!

- I am the troll... feed me!

- 5th place w. 13th Company at Adepticon 2007 Championship Tourney

- I love Angela Imrie!!!

http://40kwreckingcrew.com/phpBB2/index.php

97% 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Silverdale, WA

The mutli forum rules FAQ is a great idea but it has been tried in the past. The reasons it didn't work then have not been solved since then so I wouldn't expect it to do much better now. The main reason it didn't fly last time is because most people felt it was somewhat futile. With no way to enforce the rules we would only be tying our own hands when playing against those who would exploit rule loopholes. What's that saying? "By making firearms illegal only criminals would have firearms." It would be kind of like that.

The other reason I can remember is that when we started trying to do it we couldn't even agree on what the FAQ answer should be. You want to start a 10 page argument? Just for kicks start the FAQ answer thread with the question "Can units fire through a walker's legs?" I'm willing to bet we will start a litle mini-argument about it right here in fact. Until we can resolve these issues the noble idea will die on the vine unfortunately. We are, and always will be stuck with the rules that they give us.

[edit] I just saw the thread that DIG started trying to actually do it.  Sorry man!


 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in southern England.

There's no way to enforce the "official" rules given in the BGB considering players can just walk away from a game.

But I get your point. There's some degree of moral authority in an FAQ carrying the sacred GW legal rubric.

As an alternative to a set of rules/FAQ answers, how about a standard set of disputable points to be checked and agreed at the start of a game? Someone put one of these together on Dakka -1. I helped add to it.

Better than nothing, maybe...

Petition to stop ratification of EU Article 13 on Internet Copyright

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Lurking Gaunt




If you really want to send GW a message, create a complete set of community supported game rules that simply use GW miniatures and forget about 40K. I am not a lawer, but my research indicates that the rules to games cannot be copyrighted. Only the presentation of the rules can be copyrighted. This is a major reason that most companies intermix their background fluff with their rules. For example compare the rules of Flames of War with the rules for 40K. This means you can create a game that has all the features you want and write it so that everything is consistent with play RaW.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Los Angeles, CA

How would people go about setting up something for an indipendient FAQ?
Would it be on the DAKKA site or would someone host a seperate site to run it?
Given time I would be willing to help set up an indipendient site if we had enough interested, dedicated, and competent people (10-20 being about what I would expect we would need)

Would take a month and a half to set it up. Have to move first.

Call me The Master of Strategy

Warhammer
Army Strategy
Unit Strategy 
   
 
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