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Note: I know that these are not the most competative of lists, but whichever one you think has more promise shall be refined later on.


Ok, I have a problem that I am trying to chose a Chaos faction.

Now, I like Slaanesh, Nurgle and the Night Lords all equally. The fluff and ideas for all 3 are pretty awsome, and that is usually my main decider on armies.

And this raises a dilemma: I can only collect one faction, and I am going to have to stick with them for the long term.

So, could someone please take a look at the 3 lists, all 1850 points each, and reccomend , based on the effectiveness of the lists, which faction I should go? Also, any advice on the lists in general would be appreciated, but the main purpose of this is to see if you can help me make up my mind as to which faction has the most playable army lists.


Slaanesh:

HQ.

Daemon Princess: Lord w/ Daemon Armour, Daemonic Aura, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Speed, Daemonic Strength, Daemonic Stature, Daemonic Venom, Combat Drugs, Personal Icon & Mark of Slaanesh.
200

Troops

Chaos Marines: Aspiring Champion w/ Bolter & Krak Grenades. 11 Chaos Marines w/ 7 Bolters, 2 Plasma Guns, Infiltrate & Mark of Slaanesh. *Summoning Icon*
256

Chaos Marines: Aspiring Champion w/ Bolt Pistol & Power Weapon. 5 Chaos Marines w/ 3 Bolters, 2 Meltaguns, Infiltrate & Mark of Slaanesh. *Summoning Icon*
162

Daemon Pack: 6 Daemonetes.
90

Daemon Pack: 6 Daemonetes.
90

Fast Attack

Mounted Daemonettes: 6 Mounted Daemonettes.
168

Mounted Daemonettes: 6 Mounted Daemonettes.
168

Heavy Support

Chaos Havocs: Aspiring Champion w/ Sonic Blaster & Power Weapon. 11 Chaos Marines w/ 7 Sonic Blasters, 4 Blastmasters & Mark of Slaanesh. *summoning Icon*
358

Chaos Havocs: Aspiring Champion w/ Sonic Blaster & Power Weapon. 11 Chaos Marines w/ 7 Sonic Blasters, 4 Blastmasters & Mark of Slaanesh. *summoning Icon*
358

67 Models.



Nurgle

HQ

Chaos Lord: Manreaper, Terminator Armour, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Strength, Nugle's Rot & Mark of Nurgle.
150

Greater Daemon: Great Unclean One w/ Wind of Chaos.
150

Elites

Chosen Retinue: Aspiring Champion w/ Combi-Bolter, Plague Sword & Nurgle's Rot. 5 Chosen Terminators w/ 3 Combi-Bolters & Power Weapons, 2 Reaper Autocannons & Chainfists & Mark of Nurgle.
322

Troops

Chaos Space Marines: Aspiring Champion w/ Bolter, Plague Sword, Nugle's Rot & Teleport Homer. 6 Chaos Marines w/ 4 Bolters, 2 Plasma Guns & Mark of Nurgle.
178

Chaos Space Marines: Aspiring Champion w/ Bolter, Plague Sword, Nugle's Rot & Teleport Homer. 6 Chaos Marines w/ 4 Bolters, 2 Plasma Guns & Mark of Nurgle.
178

Daemon Pack: 7 Plaguebearers.
112

Daemon Pack: 14 Plaguebearers.
224

Heavy Support

Chaos Havocs: Aspiring Champion w/ Bolter & Daemon Chains. 6 Chaos Marines w/ 2 Bolters, 4 Meltaguns & Mark of Nurgle.
213

Chaos Defiler: Battle Cannon, Reaper Autocannon & Havoc Launcher.
160

Chaos Defiler: Battle Cannon, Reaper Autocannon & Havoc Launcher.
160

1847

52 Models




Night Lords

HQ

Chaos Lord: Dark Blade, Bionics, Chaos Bike (Meltagun), Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Visage, Frag Grenades, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Skilled Riders.
156

Chaos Sorcerer: Dual Lightning Claws, Wind of Chaos, Daemonic Flight, Daemonic Visage, Frag Grenades, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Furious Charge.
151

Elites

Obliterator Cult: 3 Obliterators.
210

Troops

Chaos Space Marines: Aspiring Champion w/ Bolt Pistol, Power Fist & Daemonic Visage. 7 Chaos Space Marines w/ 5 Bolters, 2 Plasma Guns, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Infiltrate.
194

Chaos Space Marines: Aspiring Champion w/ Bolt Pistol, Power Fist & Daemonic Visage. 7 Chaos Space Marines w/ 5 Bolters, 2 Plasma Guns, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Infiltrate.
194

Chaos Space Marines: Aspiring Champion w/ Bolt Pistol, Power Fist & Daemonic Visage. 7 Chaos Space Marines w/ 5 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 2 Meltaguns, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Infiltrate.
194

Fast Attack

Chaos Bikers: Aspiring Champion w/ Power Weapon, Teleport Homer, Daemonic Visage, Chaos Bike (Combi-Bolter) & Frag Grenades. 5 Bikers w/ Close Combat Weapons, 5 Chaos Bikes (Combi-Bolters), Frag Grenades, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Skilled Riders.
258

Chaos Raptors: Aspiring Champion w/ Power Weapon & Power Fist. 5 Raptors w/ 4 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 1 Meltagun, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Furious Charge.
246

Chaos Raptors: Aspiring Champion w/ Power Weapon & Power Fist. 5 Raptors w/ 4 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 1 Meltagun, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Furious Charge.
246

1849

47 Models



Ok, so any thoughts and advice as to which lists looks better? I am leaning slightly towards Night Lords at this moment, as all the models are mortal, and so more dependable than fickle deamons.

The Slaanesh has variety, and scare-factor, as well as cool modeling opportunities, but can be taken apart easilyif the opponent knows what they are doing, and is weak to tanks.

The Nurgle has resilience and a good firebase in the terminators, adn the GuO can soak up firepower, but is rather slow and has low troop numbers.

Both lists rely on Deamons to be effective (assault for the Slaanesh, 'shield' foir the Nurgle), and these can neveer come onto the table if you are unlicky. Sommoning can be a hinderance as much as a help.

The Night Lords have a high degree of tactical flexibility, and are extremely manouverable, an I have designed the list so units can easily support each other. However, it possibly lacks as much character as the other 2 lists.

However, I love all the armies and their components, so I really can't choose between them. Any help would be much appreciated.

Many thanks to anyone who took the time to read this.

Well, I for one like your Slaanesh list the best, and really like all those 12-strong squads you've got. If I played Slaanesh, it would be a list much like the one you've got there. In fact, here's a few things from me:

HQ.

Daemon Princess: Lord w/ Daemon Armour, Daemonic Aura, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Speed, Daemonic Strength, Daemonic Stature, Daemonic Venom, Combat Drugs, Personal Icon & Mark of Slaanesh. 200
The Princess is illegal - she's got 120 points in gifts (drugs count). I say drop the drugs, or maybe the armor instead. The venom is an odd choice, but maybe she fights a lot of wraithlords? Otherwise lots of conversion potential, and big killy.

Troops

Chaos Marines: Aspiring Champion w/ Bolter & Krak Grenades. 11 Chaos Marines w/ 7 Bolters, 2 Plasma Guns, Infiltrate & Mark of Slaanesh. *Summoning Icon* 256
Math is a little off, but 10 bolters + 2 plas, right? I really want a fist on that champ, you'd kill next to anything ...

Chaos Marines: Aspiring Champion w/ Bolt Pistol & Power Weapon. 5 Chaos Marines w/ 3 Bolters, 2 Meltaguns, Infiltrate & Mark of Slaanesh. *Summoning Icon* 162
6 guys to infiltrate an ikon/kill a tank. Works, though I'd suggest taking the power weapon away (he's not using it for the above 2 roles), adding 5 points saved by dropping drugs to get the big squad above a fist.

Daemon Pack: 6 Daemonetes. 90

Daemon Pack: 6 Daemonetes. 90
Yeah ladies.

Fast Attack

Mounted Daemonettes: 6 Mounted Daemonettes. 168

Mounted Daemonettes: 6 Mounted Daemonettes. 168
Yeah mounted ladies! Great choices both.

Heavy Support

Chaos Havocs: Aspiring Champion w/ Sonic Blaster & Power Weapon. 11 Chaos Marines w/ 7 Sonic Blasters, 4 Blastmasters & Mark of Slaanesh. *summoning Icon* 358

Chaos Havocs: Aspiring Champion w/ Sonic Blaster & Power Weapon. 11 Chaos Marines w/ 7 Sonic Blasters, 4 Blastmasters & Mark of Slaanesh. *summoning Icon* 358
Very interesting heavy choices, and again like the meaty squads. Only bad thing? Not infiltrating, so these guys go down first ... luckily you can reposition them first turn to draw better lines of fire and maintain some firepower, due to those lovely sonics. Dig them both, and I think they could work.

Total

1850 points
67 Models.

To sum up: I like the list! Just a tweak or two and I think it's decently strong, fairly unique and quite cool.

So why not Nurgle? Plaguebearers just aren't that great, and you've got almost as many of them as plague marines! Depending on naked defilers is also a no go. Why not Nightlords? Guess I just don't like where you've gone - heavy on expensive, vulnerable(-ish) fast options; no stealth adept?; etc. Good luck with whatever you choose all the same.

- Boss Salvage

Ooh, thanks for the reply.

I am now thinking that I will drop the Nurgle list from my choices, so it's now down to the2 lists, Slaanesh and Night Lords.

I think I will make the refinements that you suggest for the Slaanesh list - they are small thing which I hadn't noticed I could do. Thank you for spotting the error on the Deamon Prince(ss) as well, I wasn't sure if she was over gifts or not. The Venom is there because it is fairly cheap, and means you never really have to buy any strength upgrades. I can't remember the EXACT reasons for taking the gift, but I saw a massive advantage to it that came up in a discussion on Deamon Princes on the B&C. Plus, I have some cool modeling ideas, involving the snake-like Beast of Nurlge (Warhammer Fantasy) and a Sister of Battle...

I suppose I sohuld mention my tactics for the remaining two lists then:

Slaanesh:

the Daemon Prince(ss) takes (eg) the right flank. She runs behind terrain as much as possible. The Daemonettes summon onto her, and the 3 units use their speed to get into combat quickly.

The CSM units infltrate onto the opposite flank. The large squad lays down suppressive firepower, while the smaller suad deals with any armour that is in range.

The Havoc squads start in the centre of the board, and push up the middle to hopefully draw attention away from the Daemon Prince(ss), and if they are actually ignored, can cause some serious damage. 24 move+shoot Marines? Yes please!

The Dameonettes summon onto wherever they are needed - the centre, the Prince(ss) if she is in danger of being swamped, or the CSM if they are being attacked.

Night Lords:

Lord joins the Bikers, and both go up (eg) left flank. The Obliterators summon onto them. THe Bikes can charge while the Obliterators give cover-fire.

The Lieutenant hangs out with (but not joining) the 2 Raptor units, who take the opposite flank to the Bikes. They use terrain to get close to the enemy, and he can use Wind to cause serious damage. The Raptors have Meltas incase a target of opportunity presents iteslf.

The CSMs infiltrate, to rapid-fire Marines, and to Melta tanks.


So, I have a plan for both, and I quite like both lists. At least I ahve cut the Nurgle out though! Its now 1 out of 2, not 1 out fo 3.


And finally, thank you for your input on the Slaanesh list, and your oppinions on the other 2 lists. Your comments are much appreciated, and I think this is the most helpful post I ahve got on any of the 4 forums I have put this on. Thank you.

Do you, or does any one else, have any more thoughts? They will be most appreciated, thanks.

I don't think you can take 12 Havocs. I believe the size limit for Havocs is 10. Chaos Marines, however, is not a problem at 12 strong.

Ah, *BLEEP* you're right.

Ok, what should I do then - make the Havocs 2 units of 6, and add in a large CSM Sonic Squad, to fulfill the same roll?

(ie, 12 CSM w/ Champ, 10 Sonic Blasters, 1 Blastmaster; 2x 6 Havocs w/ Champ, 2 Sonic Blasters & 3 Blastmasters)

Should be the same points, and has the same overall weaponry, just amybe more effective (and game legal).

Cheers for spotting that error.

Posted By Sarigar on 08/19/2006 4:44 AM
I don't think you can take 12 Havocs. I believe the size limit for Havocs is 10. Chaos Marines, however, is not a problem at 12 strong.

O_O Craps!

I think your suggested changes are solid, though maybe making for more fragile havok squads - more like standard havoks, who hide in cover and sling fire all game. Here's my specific load-out on your idea:

12 CSM - MoS, 9 sonic blasters, 1 plasma gun, 1 blastmaster, AC w/ sonic blaster & powerfist = 313
6 Havoks - MoS, 3 blastmasters, 2 sonic blasters, AC w/ sonic blaster & power weapon = 199
6 Havoks - MoS, 3 blastmasters, 2 sonic blasters, AC w/ sonic blaster & power weapon = 199

This actually leaves you with 5 extra points, and if you drop the power weapons on the havok champs you'd have 20 more ... I couldn't think of a real use for the 25 points - maybe mutation for both of the powerfist champs? Other daemonic kit? Really unsure, so I left the havoks' their power weapons for now ...

- Boss Salvage

Changed my mind a little bit about the load-outs. I think it'd be best to have a full on sonic assault 12-marine unit, no plasma. Also thought a little more about those power weapon points:

12 CSM - MoS, 10 sonic blasters, 1 blastmaster, AC w/ sonic blaster, powerfist, mutation = 318
6 Havoks - MoS, 3 blastmasters, 2 sonic blasters, AC w/ sonic blaster = 189
6 Havoks - MoS, 3 blastmasters, 2 sonic blasters, AC w/ sonic blaster = 189

So to clear up where points are at now, here's the list with my tweaks:

Lord - MoS, personal ikon, armor, aura, mutation, speed, strength, stature, venom = 175

12 CSM - MoS, infiltrate, 2 plasma guns, AC w/ powerfist = 299
12 CSM - MoS, 10 sonic blasters, 1 blastmaster, AC w/ sonic blaster, powerfist, mutation = 318
6 CSM - MoS, infiltrate, 2 meltaguns, AC w/ power weapon & krak = 164
6 Daemonettes = 90
6 Daemonettes = 90

6 Mounted Daemonettes = 168
6 Mounted Daemonettes = 168

6 Havoks - MoS, 3 blastmasters, 2 sonic blasters, AC w/ sonic blaster = 189
6 Havoks - MoS, 3 blastmasters, 2 sonic blasters, AC w/ sonic blaster = 189

Hope this helps!

- Boss Salvage

I'm torn between the Nurgle and Slaanesh list. I'm building (slowly) an Emperor's Children list similar to yours. The one thing I've found is not to buy sonic weapons for every model. It's a bit of a waste of points. 23 Points is your cheapest guy when he falls to a bolter. Get a few with just bolters to be sponges. Also, combat drugs is one of those little sneaky things that can really tip the scales in your favor. I wouldn't give every champion and lord the gear, but a Champion w/ Powerfist that can hit on 3's (w/ Combat drugs in most cases) starts to make a difference in assault your opponent did not count on.

The Nurgle list is just hard. The one question that sticks out is your Havoc squad. You've got 4 melta guns and the demon vessel, but no infiltrate. This squad needs infiltrate or at least a Rhino (I think Nurgle Havocs can get a Rhino).

Because I'm partial to Slaanesh, I'd say go that route. However, I don't think you'd be disappointed in the Nurgle army either.