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Master. 370pts.
- Terminator Armour, 2x Lightning Claw
- 5 Man Command Squad w/ 2 Assault Cannon

  Reclusiarch.  130pts.
- Jump Pack.
- Lightning Claw.

  6 Man Tactical Squad. 115pts.
- Lascannon.
- Plasmagun.

  6 Man Tactical Squad. 115pts.
- Lascannon.
- Plasmagun.

  6 Man Tactical Squad. 115pts.
- Lascannon.
- Plasmagun.

  6 Man Tactical Squad. 115pts.
- Lascannon.
- Plasmagun.

  6 Man Assault Squad. 174pts.
- 2x Flamer.
- Vet Sergeant w/ Terminator Honours, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol.

  Land Speeder Tornado. 80pts.
- Assult Cannon.

  6 Man Devastator Squad. 135pts.
- 3x Heavy Bolter.

  6 Man Devastator Squad. 150pts.
- 3x Missile Launcher.

Total: 1499pts.

Rec goes with the Assault Marines.  Right place for him?

Single LS worth it?

3x Heavy Bolter Dev Squad worth the points?

Right weapon for Rec?

Anything else?

Why the rec and not a librarian? Fury and storm work out well here (if he's going with the jump packers you can get away with fury and fear).

42 Marines at 1500 pts, how wrong can you go? =)

3x Heavy Bolter Dev Squad worth the points?
Yes. They have 3 good things going for them: they will wreck non-MEQs (especially T3 slaneshi demons), they can get enough hits on MEQs to inflict a casualty or two on key units, and they are deadly against landspeeders.

Right weapon for Rec?
No, spend the points (you'll have to free up 5 elsewhere) on termie honors and a bolt pistol (6 attacks on the charge!).

Nobody brings up a good point. Consider a librarian. He'll work well with fury/fear. He also has a psychic hood, which will combat your opponent's fury/fear librarians. With the new eldar dex around the corner, the emperor's tarot predicts an increase in witchcraft.

You could also ditch the chappy and the commander and put a librarian in your command unit. This would free up points for another landspeeder tornado and you could flesh out the dev squads.

True, and with the 4 min\maxed Tac Squads I could do without having 2 HQs at 1500pts as well.  Keep things friendly, you know?

The Rec is there because Ive been skimming the forums and seen many references to always running a Chap with your Assault Marines.  So I just assumed he was the right choice.

Could drop the Master and Rec for a tricked-out Libarian and Command Squad, but then will the Assault squad still be hard enough to do anything, with it being just a 6 man squad with a couple of flamers and a powerfist?

Yup, I run something similiar, and a libby+ command squad and the assault marines are usually sufficient counter charge.

You have a very static list.  For you to fire at any level of effectiveness at least 75% of your army will need to stay still and while that might not be a problem in some games like Seek and destroy almost any other mission you will find it hard to win.  Any fast army will be able to take advantage of your inability to move and fire most of your weapons and just hide till they get close enough to assault you or just start picking units off one at a time with only 6 guys a squad.

The single LS is worth it, but I would try and fit two because now both need to be taken down for your opponent to get any VP for the squad. 

The three Heavy's Bolters are not bad.

Ditch the 2nd HQ all together and just play the master as an IC and make the terminators just a Elite this way he can be joined or not giving you more options with what you can do with both unit.

Your list really depends on who you are playing, generally flamers are not all that useful against other marines, necrons etc. If you know who you are playing before hand take weapons that would suit killing them.

Take out the terminator squad completely, for the price of that terminator squad you could get 3 land speeder toranados which is more shots coming out of those guys.

If you take out the master you can buy a dreadnought for keeping more assault oriented squads away from your las/plas squads.

You may want to take out one of your las/plas squads because 4 of them seems like a bit much for a 1500 game. Maybe buy a dreadnought?

Leave the Reclusiarch with his power weapon, this is something that I really like to do because I like to have some kind of attacks to eat through the rest of the enemy squad before my powerfist strikes. This might help you bring down characters really fast. Also make sure you buy frag grenades for your chaplain.

Again it depends on who you are playing but I usually only take plasma pistols in my assault sqauds.

Heavy bolters can be useful but some armies, like Tau, like to hide in their transports where your HB's can't really do all that much. I'd think about taking out the heavy bolter squad all together so that you can fill out your Missle Launcher squad. It would also help if you had more assault oriented units in your army. You already have 5 squads that you want staying still.

(Disclaimer: I've played this type of list for the last 2 years)


Your list really depends on who you are playing, generally flamers are not all that useful against other marines, necrons etc. If you know who you are playing before hand take weapons that would suit killing them.

Not everybody has the luxury of switching army lists for each opponent. If he's planning on using this as a tournament list (or local custom has players using static lists) then he should be prepared to take on all comers.

Take out the terminator squad completely, for the price of that terminator squad you could get 3 land speeder toranados which is more shots coming out of those guys.

Bad advice. The most land speeders you should field with this kind of list is two units of one. Any opponent who is fielding autocannons (or any amount of heavy bolters) will quickly neutralize a squadron of speeders.

The terminators are a relatively cheap way of fielding two assault cannons on a relatively hard to kill platform. If anything he should drop one terminator (so the retinue has four members).

If you take out the master you can buy a dreadnought for keeping more assault oriented squads away from your las/plas squads.

You may want to take out one of your las/plas squads because 4 of them seems like a bit much for a 1500 game. Maybe buy a dreadnought?

One (or even two) dreadnought(s) in a list that has no other vehicle over AV 10? They won't last long enough to threaten enemy close combat units, as now your opponent has high priority targets for their anti-vehicle weaponry.

Leave the Reclusiarch with his power weapon, this is something that I really like to do because I like to have some kind of attacks to eat through the rest of the enemy squad before my powerfist strikes. This might help you bring down characters really fast. Also make sure you buy frag grenades for your chaplain.

Librarians come with force weapons for free (which are power weapons and can instantly kill other charcaters), they also provide a defense against psykers and can bring other toys to the table. There is little reason to bring a chaplain along unless your assault squad is going to be acting in an aggressive manner (which is a bad idea in this sort of list), rather than acting as a counter charge unit. If the purpose of the assault squad is to go off by itself to assault into the enemy lines it needs to be much larger.

Again it depends on who you are playing but I usually only take plasma pistols in my assault sqauds.

Heavy bolters can be useful but some armies, like Tau, like to hide in their transports where your HB's can't really do all that much. I'd think about taking out the heavy bolter squad all together so that you can fill out your Missle Launcher squad. It would also help if you had more assault oriented units in your army. You already have 5 squads that you want staying still.

Then he only has 4 assault cannons and 2 heavy bolters to deal with horde armies. A smart ork/tyranid (well, not tyranids anymore I guess with the recent rulings) player is going to spread out enough so you are only hitting 1 1/2 models a frag template.

Played this type of list for 2 years? Then I shall bow to your superior knowledge mate.

I want to keep the list as close to what I posted as pos, because after all if I took every piece of advice from every person there would be nothing left of my list.

So will keep the bulk of the list intact, I'll drop the Chaplain and Master w/ command squad, freeing up 500pts. So how would you kit out the Librarian to go with this list? Will need to be in Terminator Armour and the Command Squad will be the standard 2x Assault Cannon set-up.

Suggestions on what to do with the spare points?

The Assault squad is a counter-charge \ mop-up unit yeah, also just need something in my force which can move.

So, list as posted minus the 2 HQs, 500pts to spend, Librarian+Command Squad to add, what toys to give the Librarian, best way to spend the spare points? (2nd Tornado w/ Assault Cannon?). Advice please.

I keep my Librarians simple. I take a Epistolary, give him a bolt pistol, and FoTA, as well as MoH incase he gets drawn into CC. (Take MoH first, because FoTA is a cheaper Epistolary selection). I like Chaplains myself, especially the way another suggested tooling him up. 6 PW attacks on a charge, that are rerollable if you miss... you're gauranteed to ruin anybodies day with that. So if you've got the points, take the Epistolary, and the Reclusiarch. Leave them both pretty basic in war gear, and you won't be eating to many VP's if they get waxed. As for the other 250pts or so, I'd beef your devestator squads up a bit. Give them a couple more ablative wounds, as well as one more heavy weapon each. You should then have enough points left over to field a dread, or predator. I'm partial to a Pred Destructor with a HK missile. That's a pretty solid deterrant against just about anything. And that 135pts will draw enough fire to give the rest of your troops a break for a while.