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I stumbled upon a thread while Google searching that had lots of awesome 40k art on an RPG website, so after seeing it, I wents snooping around to see what else I could find (here is the thread, btw- check out post 28 on page 3 for some AWESOME guard concept artwork. I figure it must come from some game, but the 'Greco-Roman crossed With Cadian' guard would be perfect for a great Crusade era troops, perhaps the defense forces for Terra itself, or just great generally themed Greco-Roman style IG http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=493791 )

Low and behold, there are other 40kish type threads about every once in a while, and one of them brought up the ol' anti Chaos God, Malal- and how perhaps Malal is in fact the Emperor, or the reason that the Inquisiton is such as it is- rigid, inflexible, and devoted to destroying chaos, is because they are themselves servants of the Chaos god turned against chaos, Malal.

Another is that whole theory that Horus won, and it is indeed he who sits upon the Golden throne- which is really why the sacrifice of 1000 psykers a day to keep the astronomican going is needed.

I mean, AFAIK, Horus and the traitors never called the Emperor a 'false Emperor' but had issues with their perception of him reaching to attain godhood, and turning their backs on them. But he was still 'The Emperor', even if Horus wanted to take the position himself.

What makes the Emperor 'False' if its still the Emperor who united Terra and the Imperium under his banner?

Because in their eyes they were betrayed by the Emperor, so thus False.

And wasn't Horus just going to take the title for himself? I would of.

They are not calling him a lieing or not-true Emperor, they are saying he is not who the Imperium believes. In thei eyes, he is no God, he is not a diety. He is but a man.

As for Horus being on the Golden Throne, that is not true and there is proof.



Also, they couldn't mistake Horus for the Emperor, nor could anyone who grabbed the Big E. Seriously, Horus was in black armor and warped by Chaos, no chance.

another reason i heard is that many of the traitor marines wanted to worship the emperor as a god, but he said no.

they felt the need to worship somthing and so turned to chaos.


During the HH the traitor marines worshiped Horus as the true ruler of man and so the Emperor was called the "false" Emperor.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:They are not calling him a lieing or not-true Emperor, they are saying he is not who the Imperium believes. In thei eyes, he is no God, he is not a diety. He is but a man.

The Emperor did not wish to be worshiped as a god. The Ecclesiarchy only created the Imperial Cult after the Emperor's death to retain power and stop the Imperium from collapsing.

Chaos marines wanted to follow Horus as their Emperor, so that would make the True Emperor of Mankind "false".

Not entirely true. The Word Bearers wanted to worship the Emperor as a god. He said no. Didn't turn out so well for the galaxy.

Because...um...Well, it sounds cool. Also, why do they want him to die, if he's basically already dead? What, are they going to mutilate what's left of his corpse? Lame.

In my opinion, they try to end what they started 10.000 years ago, with making no-one-knows to the emperor's corpse (that's what i call perseverance )

Because if you say Death to the emperor, it kinda implies he's your emperor.

DoW does it better..

My fav is "Corpses for the Corpse God".

The CSMs believe Horus should have been promoted to the Emperor so in their eyes he is the false Emperor.

Thinking a corpse is someone who should be called Emperor isn't something they agree with. At least when he was alive, they considered him a worthy opponent. Well, perhaps not worthy as much as someone who would make a worthwhile trophy. Someone worth killing, while a normal human is not (still get killed, not boast about it).

Well it's either shout that or admit that the guy who kicked your heretical backside into the Eye of Terror, after killing your heretical commander because he was thick enough to put his shields down, and whose forces have kept you in that eye of terror whilst ALSO preventing most of the daemons created by your gods from entering the mortal universe is in a position of authority from your point of view. And it sounds evil too.

steempunk wrote:

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:They are not calling him a lieing or not-true Emperor, they are saying he is not who the Imperium believes. In thei eyes, he is no God, he is not a diety. He is but a man.

The Emperor did not wish to be worshiped as a god. The Ecclesiarchy only created the Imperial Cult after the Emperor's death to retain power and stop the Imperium from collapsing.

Chaos marines wanted to follow Horus as their Emperor, so that would make the True Emperor of Mankind "false".

I never said he WANTED to be worshipped, merely that they are. There were no cries of "Death to the False Emperor" during the heresy, I'd put my money on it.

As for him not wanting to be worshipped, that could be false. He was supposedly able to see his future and such, which only gives off the question of why he let all of this happen. Some say he WANTED to be worshipped and this was the way to go about it. The end result of all this is his ascension to godhood in the end.

And really, Horus was not meant to be the Emperor in the same way. He was supposed to usher in a new era of power for humanity as the Warmaster, not the Emperor.

Anyways, yes the Word Bearers began to worship the Big E, and they even did so after he was rebuked. That was until Lorgar and Kor Phaeron realised the Chaos Gods were out there and they gifted those who worshipped. Laughter followed and Horus was next in line, well sorta. Fulgrim and Anngron were both convinced as well, probably before Horus.

Can't find the page (about 450 pages in this book), but in Collected Visions of the Horus Heresy, there is a quote from the CSM that says in so many words "Horus for Emperor, Death to the False Emperor."

The book may have been retconned, but it seems to suggest there was False Emperor shouting during the Heresy.

Is this the text you were looking for?



Hold your tongue, heretic!"

The empty room shook with the impact of a ragged figure's body into a
sturdy and ancient rockrete wall. A burly man wrapped in a thick
leather coat and bearing the mark of the Inquisition easily hefted and
tossed the smaller person. Dust from centuries past were rocked from their
resting place and fell over the man-handled heretic. He gave out a series of
coughs before pleading, "Please! Please hear me! I know the truth!"

The squirming man tugged helplessly at the Inquisitor's arms, but
could not get even the slightest bit of relief from the hold. The
Inquisitor drew his face closer to the heretic; his long angled face becoming
feintly clearer to the helpless man as once hidden scars and blemishes
revealed themselves.

"What 'truth' could you possibly know that the Inquisition does not
have access to?"

"I know the truth about the Emporer!" The words barely escaped the
heretics lips before his body was flung some twenty feet into yet
another sturdy wall. His body smacked into it with a sickening thud before
falling to the ground in a broken heap. The Inquisitor walked towards the
battered figure on the ground; a highly noticable look of disgust etched
across his face.

"For a heretic to speak His name to an Inquisitor of the Ordos
Hereticus is to welcome an execution!" He reached for his holster, "By the
authority of the Holy Adepts of Terra and the Inquisition of the immortal
Emporer of..."

"Hereticus Preservitae, Inquisitor Lexington." the heretic rasped,
interrupting the Inquisitor's sentence. Lexington halted his words
and his hand remained poised over his holster. For a brief moment, Inquisitor
Lexington experienced surprise for the first time in many long years.

"How do you know of Ordos Hereticus methods and of my name? Neither
parcel of knowledge was granted to you!"

"I know many things, Inquisitor," the man replied, dragging himself
to his feet, "and I request that you perform the Hereticus Preservitae."
"I do not intend to interrogate you, heretic. What makes you think
that I would soil my vox recorder with your vile speakings?" Lexington's
tone dropped slightly from aggressive to curious. This shift gave the
heretic a bit more confidence.

"Because you are an Inquisitor. Curiosity is in your nature as well
as your duties. Besides, what harm could the frail words of a battered
heretic do to a devoted Inquisitor of the Ordos Hereticus?"

Lexington stared at the man; his gaze piercing deep into the ragged
figure's soul and contemplating its worth. He slowly reached for his
Bolt Pistol, but instead grabbed for one of many belt pouches hanging
from his waist. His hand searched briefly and found the desired rectangular
box. He spoke the necessary information for catalouging a heretic
interrogation and finally placed the vox on a small piece of debris next to him.

"Tell me what you know."

"Do you know of the Horus Heresy, Inquisitor Lexington?"

"Of course I know of the most famous moment of Imperial history. The
Primarch, Horus, was swayed by the Dark Gods and turned Space Marines
against the Immortal Emporer of Mankind. Do not insult me, heretic!"

"I mean no insult, Inquisitor Lexington. I only wish to elaborate on
this event. You see, Horus was the first Primarch discovered by the
Emporer and so was his closest 'son'. In truth, Horus was more akin to a clone
than an offspring" The last statement clearly disgusted Lexington, but he
held his tongue. "After more and more of the other Primarchs were discovered,
the Emporer's attention was split amongst His 'sons' and His empire.
Horus felt jealousy and contempt for his 'father' and so was easily swayed
by the Ruinous Powers. With their gifts under his control, it was easy
to bring other Primarchs to his cause; even if they didn't want to."

"'Even if they didn't want to'? What are you implying?" Lexington's
curiosity was too much to remain silent.

"Not all of the Primarchs, nor their legions, wanted to rebel. But
with the influences of the Dark Gods instilled in him and the vast
experience he had among them, it was easy to manipulate them by means of a
spell."

"A spell?! Nonsense! Those legions were impure, defected! They chose
to rebel!"

"Yes, but not entirely under their own will. Daemonic possession only
furthered the control of some of the more pious warriors amongst the
legions. And with this great army at his beck and call, Horus began
that long civil war known as the Horus Heresy."

"You have yet to speak anything of value." Lexington reminded. The
heretic shook off the statement and continued.

"When things looked the most grim, Horus inexplicably dropped the
shields on his battle barge. The Emporer took this opportunity and made a
grand assault with the assistance of the Primarchs Rogal Dorn and
Sanguinius.
Sanguinius was the first to reach Horus and confronted him. Horus
attempted to turn the winged Primarch to his side, but Sanguinius
was too stubborn and head strong. He listened not to Horus's words and
attacked.
The battle was fierce, but Horus ultimately slew Sanguinius and
tossed his lifeless body to the ground. It was at this point that the Emporer
entered the bridge and engaged Horus in the most spectacular duel this
existance has ever known."
"Yes. Yes. The Emporer won the duel, slaying Horus. He payed the
ultimate price; however, and was carried off to the Golden Throne by Rogal
Dorn himself. That story is legendary. Your worth thus far, heretic,
is...."
Lexington was interrupted as the heretic held up his hand for
silence.

"No."

"No?"

"Yes. No. That ending is rumor at best."

"What are you getting at?"

"It is true that one was slain and one was near demise. Horus's dark
abilities were still quite strong, even near death. Before he fell
upon the deck, he set about implanting a single fog into the minds of all
in the room. Although Rogal Dorn was a Primarch, his prowess was on the
battlefield and not of daemonic spell warding. When he knelt down to
collect his Emporer, he grabbed the wrong corpse."

"What are you getting at, heretic?" Lexington looked tense and
extremely enraged at the predicted answer.

"What I'm saying, Inquisitor Lexington of the Ordos Hereticus, is
that the corpse sitting atop the Golden Throne is not the Emporer. It is and
always was Horus."

Faster than any eye could blink, Lexington drew his Bolt Pistol with
it's barrel centimeters away from the heretic's face. The heretic, half
expecting this, froze in place and attempted not to make any sudden
movements. Lexington breathed heavily and yelled at the man, "HOW
DARE YOU! You DARE to insult the Emporer in front of me?! I should kill
you where you stand!"

"You can try, Inquisitor, but it will take more than blessed Bolts
to kill me. I am cursed with immortality by the Dark Gods themselves. I
exist only to tell the truth; and I have."

"How could you possibly know what had transpired aboard that barge?!
How could you come to this despicable conclusion?!"

The heretic reached extremely slowly into his robes. Lexington
threatened to shoot, but the heretic ignored the warning and pulled out a small
canister. He offered it to the Inquisitor, but noticed he was in no
mood to accept it. He instead placed it upon the ground.

"What is this?"

"Proof."

Lexington slowly knelt down to collect the canister and gently
screwed the top off of it. A feint glow emmanated from the interior as Lexington
withdrew the contents. It was a single, long feather. It's edges were
speckled a dark crimson and the mark of the Imperial eagle displayed
proudly across it's face. The Inquisitor stared at it in shock, "This
cannot be!"

"But it is, Inquisitor. A feather from the fallen body of Sanguinius,
Primarch of the Blood Angels."

"How did you...."

"I told you, I was there. I was servant to the Sons of Horus when the
battles occurred. I was there to observe and live. I speak truly,
Inquisitor, The Emporer is....."

The heretic had no time to finish before a rune encrusted Bolt round
exited Lexington's sidearm and entered the head of the heretic. The
Inquisitor spat upon the fallen corpse and carefully sealed the
precious artifact back into its container. Lexington knelt down to retrieve
his vox as well, when the ragged figure of the heretic slowly rose to his
feet.
Startled, Lexington instinctivley drew his weapon and aimed it at the
heretic once more. A hail of exploded shrapnel rained down from the
heretic's face as his wound began to heal.

"Golden Throne! What heresy is this?"

"I told you, Inquisitor, I cannot die. I cannot be terminated so
easily as I've tried many times before."

"I swear by the Immortal Emporer of Mankind I shall see you dead!"

"Weren't you listening, it's not...." Lexington's loose finger upon
the trigger silenced the heretic. Realizing the predicted results of
this next execution attempt, He put down his weapon.

"But it doesn't make sense. If Horus is seated upon the Golden
Throne, then why has not the Imperium fallen to Chaos?"

"Because Horus is selfish and desires nothing more than power. Do you
think he would share it with anyone, even the Dark Gods?"

"How could no one know of this? Surely the traitor legions would
realize that their leader is behind the Imperium."

"Oh but they do, Inquisitor. After his return to Terra, his
influence upon the traitor legions was lifted. After they realized what had
ocurred, it was too late. Their own battle-brothers chased them off into the Eye
of Terror without caring for a single plea of salvation by the marked
'traitors'. There they were fed upon by daemons and the Ruinous
Powers until the last vestiges of their sanity was gone. The Gods fed them
the truth about Horus and the last remnants of their sanity remembers
only that the Imperium worships a False Emporer. Horus planned this power
all along. He didn't want to crush the Emporer and assume the throne
since he would no doubt share it with Chaos. That is why he dropped the
shields on his battle barge. He staged his death and had his own enemies carry
him to his seat of power where they would protect him until the end of
time."

"But what of the Adeptus Custodes? They must know it is Horus."

"You are correct, Inquisitor. They discovered it was Horus, but much
too late. If they had revealed his ascension, the Imperium would tear
itself apart before it could rebuild. The safety of the Imperium was more
important of a consideration to think about. Also, Horus's psychic
energy made possible the Astronomicon. However, they vowed that no one else
would discover this and so protected the area against any who would
intrude."

Lexington had a wave of shock roll over him and was about to speak
when the heretic interrupted him, "Do you know of what a Daemon feeds
from?

"Yes. They feed from souls. Souls of psykers." Lexington sounded
weary.

"Just like the hundreds of souls sacrificed to the 'Emporer' every
day just to sustain him."

Lexington dropped to his knees and stared out into the distance. The
recent knowledge sweeping across his brain and unlocking questions.
Questions that he never thought he would ask himself as an
Inquisitor of the Imperium of Man. The heretic was relishing the Inquisitor's
state of being and knelt down beside him.

"Face it, Lexington, your Imperium is a farse. The one you worship
is the same creature you've been raised to hate. You seek out to eliminate
the Emporer's enemies when His greatest rival is idolized by His own
servants. What do you think of that, Inquisitor?"

The heretic had no time to revel in the questioning as a large
silvered stake pierced his chest and impaled his heart. Lexington released
his grip and kicked the ragged defiler to the floor. The heretic had a look
of extreme agony on his face as the area surrounding the wound
incinerated and spread d to consume his entire anatomy to ash. As the
dust and ash blew across the floor, Inquisitor Lexington collected his vox. He
stared at it for what seemed to be an eternity until he smashed it
into a wall, destroying it utterly. He then collected the heretic's canister
containing its sacred cargo and left. He entered a loyal Inquisitor
of the Ordos Hereticus and exited an unsure man filled with confusion and
doubt about his god-like Emporer; the very tools of a heretic to the
Imperium of Man.

The ashes swirled and merged at the center of the room until the
full-bodied figure of the heretic became whole once more. He patted
his chest to check the wound, only to find a completely healthy (albeit
poorly groomed) chest. A small silhouetted vapor cloud appeared in the air
in front of him.

"Yes, my master?"

"You have failed yet again, slave! Your soul shall be consumed if you
cannot maintain a simple riot among the loyalists!"

"But the message of truth was spread to yet another Inquisitor, my
lord.
That makes a good number of their ranks aware of exactly whom they
serve."

"That traitor, Horus! He shall regret his actions once the Dark Gods
claim him again. Until then, slave, you have a cult to reform!”

That story is

Grey Templar wrote:That story is

You really get to much use out of that stamp just like me and duct tape. Also the truth is not heresy. Heresy is refusing to admit the true nature of the Emperor of Mankind isn't it? So the tale if not heresy is truth,no?

Depends. In terms of preventing the already teetering Imperium from falling apart completely, then yes, the tale is heresy. In terms of the truth, enlightenment, etc (all stuff the Imperium isn't hugely keen on anyway), no, it isn't. If I was a Custodian, I'd buy a little bit more time for everyone by keeping quiet.

It's simple, The Chao space marines feel (rightly so) that them Emperor betrayed them. Thus he is not fit to rule and false. False meaning he is a lieing scumbag who tossed his own sons onther the bus. Let the galaxy BURN!

What book is this from?

Edited wall of words

This all makes sense

Alternativley if one thought of the CSM as enlighted and educated then you could say that they know that the Emperor is not ruleing The Kingdom of Mankind but the Lords of Terra are. Therefore if the Emperor is not ruleing how can he be Emperor? He is a False-Emperor.

Thanks for the link by the way. There goes the rest of my f'ing afternoon .

because the emperor is really a Cylon. cant be the God emperor of Manking when your a frakkin Machine.

No, the Emperor is very clearly Chuck Norris.

MekanobSamael wrote:No, the Emperor is very clearly Chuck Norris.

I repent from my evil ways! I renounce Chaos! I spit upon the Dark Gods!

ALL HAIL EMPEROR CHUCK NORRIS!!!!!

HAIL!

yes, the emperor is Chuck Norris, but what you don't know is that he has been reborn as Usarkr. E. CREEEEEEEEEEEEEED.


how can he be in 2 places at once you ask?

simultaniously leading the armies of Cadia and sitting on the royal flush.

the answer is of course, Tactical Genius.

Is the big excerpt from a real book of background or is this just some fan thing?

UsdiThunder wrote:What book is this from?

Horus Heresy Collected Visions I believe,
did you have to quote a WALL of text to ask?

poipo32 wrote:

UsdiThunder wrote:What book is this from?

Horus Heresy Collected Visions I believe,
did you have to quote a WALL of text to ask?

Sorry about that. I was in a rush and didn't take the time to edit.