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Janzerker wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:


The confirmation had come from their web admin when it was discussed that Neotera has only one unit as attackers in prisoner P-9 that can open the airlock and he said they had more, later admitting he used knowledge from play testing to say that.

I hardly could call that a confirmation.
Anyway, I give you the confirmation: there's nothing for Neoterra in this book.

PanO gets two new unit profiles: Crusader bethren for MO and Lt. Stephen Rao of the Bagh Mari for Acontecimento.
Also the already known Jottum changed profile is there, as well as a Santiago profile addtion Combi, E/M grenades for 44 pts.

That's all.
Truth be said, this book brings juicy things to Aleph and CA ( specially if you're a Morat Agression Force player! ) for the most part. The other factions should just expect a pair or three of units, furthermore, YuJing gets the shaft and permanently loses the Ko Dali profile. Even the new Tohaa faction has only a total of 13 unit profiles.

It was at that point, too bad PanO get only two new units, Neotera in particular needs some fleshing out, more than MO need. Ko Dali we knew about yes its bad, but I would not go to the stretch to call it getting the shaft, I was really looking forward for her new sculpt though.

Alright, are people still just assuming the new Ko Dali loses Yu Jing the old one, or is that explicitly stated? If it she is, then yeah, CB screwed up in allowing the meta-plot to invalidate someone's army.

"Invalidate someone's army"? Yes, you'll lose your abilit to bring Tiger Soldiers in from behind an enemy's rear flank, but I'd hardly call that invalidating someone's army. ou make a minor adjustment of 1-2 models and you're back on your merry way.

It's also likely that it has the same verbage as McMurrough and states that the new profile is the only profile valid for ITS use. You'll likely still be able to play the other version in any non-ITS game.

ROCKET PUNCH!

 The CF wrote:
CALIBANCALIBANCALIBAN
Can't believe nobody has said anything about them yet. I'm super-excited! What kinds of shenanigans will they be able to pull? Erasoketa, I'll be waiting for this information. And I believe Boss Salvage too would want that info.

This is true. Related: whither away, haiduks?

- Salvage

 BlueDagger wrote:
"Invalidate someone's army"? Yes, you'll lose your abilit to bring Tiger Soldiers in from behind an enemy's rear flank, but I'd hardly call that invalidating someone's army. ou make a minor adjustment of 1-2 models and you're back on your merry way.

It's also likely that it has the same verbage as McMurrough and states that the new profile is the only profile valid for ITS use. You'll likely still be able to play the other version in any non-ITS game.

Not looking for people to start becoming CB apologists here, I just want to make sure the wording in the book actually takes Ko Dali away as an official option for Yu Jing or not, before we all get our panties in a bunch about it. If the wording is the same as that used for McMurrough, even with it being an ITS-only thing, that does basically remove her as an option in many people's eyes. The same way that a lot of casual groups don't allow mercenary reinforcements or mercenary armies in pickup games, even though they are technically legal for casual use.

What gets me more, though, is that unless something else changes, we will never see a Yu Jing resculpt of Ko Dali. And I am skeptical as to whether a CA-redesign will be useful for such purposes (depends on a lot of factors). Either way, it seems like an odd move, and if the CA version is the only official one now, it will piss off a lot of people.

In the end, a lot of Yu Jing players with Ko Dali will now need to use her as a proxy if their group is the type that only uses ITS-allowable options. It would certainly be an odd decision at the very least.

Well that's the way things go in an actively evolving setting.

Characters die/switch sided/get converted, anything else would end up with GW like stasis

PP does both, and it works.
Epic casters should invalidate their non-epic versions as per storyline advancement, but PP recognize that more options are better than fewer.
Strict adherence to background in tournament play is as restrictive in an evolving world as it is in a static world from a gamers perspective.

So here's something marginally unrelated yet interesting:

The numbering system of all CB's products has been 280YXX where Y is the faction and XX is the product number.

Example:
http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2011/miniatures/hassassin-fiday/
Fiday is 280401
4 = Faction Haqqislam
01 = First model in the series.

Trend continues:
http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2012/miniatures/tearlach-mcmurrough/
701 = Mercenary model #1 (due to the resculpt)

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2012/miniatures/hassassin-muyibs-3/
455 = Haqqislam model #55

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2012/miniatures/husam-spec-ops/
456 = Haqqislam model #56

HOWEVER, then we come upon the new Kaplan Mercenaries:
http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2012/miniatures/kts-kaplan-tactical-services/
Product # 280457 corresponds to Haqqislam model #57 coming sequentially after the recent Husam.
Aside from the obvious Turkish Kaplan being flavorfully linked with the Haqqislam faction, why wouldn't the product code properly label the Kaplan Mercenaries as 280710?

Long story short, anyone want to start wild speculation that Mercenaries are being phased out and inserted into more sectorials as we've been seeing?

I simply found this out because I was checking out when my Ekdromoi and Chandra were coming in from Alliance Distributors and I noticed the Kaplan were listed alongside Haqqislam models in both name and product code:
http://www.alliance-games.com/publicaccess/results.asp?whichpage=2&SearchArg=Corvus+Belli+S.L.L.&SKUdata=&titledata=&pricedata=&pagesize=100&list=By_Company

 plastictrees wrote:
PP does both, and it works.
Epic casters should invalidate their non-epic versions as per storyline advancement, but PP recognize that more options are better than fewer.
Strict adherence to background in tournament play is as restrictive in an evolving world as it is in a static world from a gamers perspective.

Eh, big difference there. Casters in Warmahordes are the core of lists. They dramstically modify a list and several options are downright terrible whichout the proper caster.

I wouldn't call myself an Infinity apologist in the slightest, because that term means that I thing they didn't something wrong with the move. I love the fact that they are moving the story along.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In related news, Monday Oct 22 has been declared Bostria (Carlos L) appreciation day on the English forums. Pass the word and join the fun!

ALL HAIL BOSTRIA!

 Absolutionis wrote:


Long story short, anyone want to start wild speculation that Mercenaries are being phased out and inserted into more sectorials as we've been seeing?

No Speculation needed really, they will even get their own Sectorial type lists, Scarface and Cordelia white star (IIRC) sectorial is at the moment slotted for the next book.

Have we seen more of the Briscards apart from that one bit of (concept) artwork? (i want some, along with the Scotch Guard if they are decent)

We have not, which makes me all the sad.

Well nuts, i really want to see how the models have turned out....(and again, anything on the Guards too...). Thanks Kan, didnt think there had been anything, but just in case i missed anything (other than MSV1 which can only be a good thing)

I'm glad only Aleph and CA are getting expanded a lot in Paradiso. I've still got so many Haqqislam stuff to paint, and more I want to buy, without more getting piled on top.

Yeah, having just recently gotten back in to Infinity after being out of the loop for nearly a year, I have a big backlog to work through. I only just grabbed a Su-Jian (I was ridiculously excited for this back when it came out). I still need to grab a bunch of units that are considered staples right now and my Nomads have barely been touched since last December. If each of my main forces only get 3-4 new choices, I am going to continue being a happy man. That said, the Raiden aren't setting my world on fire yet, so for Yu Jing it is really only the Bao, new Wu Ming profiles and Aragoto characters that are doing it for me. No biggy though, I'll wait for the book to get a full look at things, the Raiden may end up surprising me after a few test runs.

Unfortunately, the stuff I am interested in (campaign, SpecOps customization, army upgrades) are a longer wait for people to convey then spouting of statlines. So until we get more on campaign stuff I will continue chomping at the bit for more info.

I'm now waiting very patiently for my copy of the book and any more information about the Corregidor Starter Box and Briscard releases to come out.

Very patiently...

@Ronin_eX, I'm a bit saddened by the loss of Ko Dali too- but also really stoked by the fact that CB actually moves their story forwards, adjusts profiles, and rebalances rules. It's a really nice alternative to GW's corporate arrogance and outright-cheesy power creep.

And frankly I've rammed Ko Dali up other factions'... er, deployment zones so many times that I realized that Tiger Soldiers with Tac jump were maybe too good.

At least she lost Mimetism when she went buggy on us.

On a different note, I'd like to point out the 6 (count 'em 6!!!!) bikes that JSA can now field in a single game. That is going. to. rule.

IF I ever picked up a Yu-Jing army, it was going to be a JSA faction, mostly because of the bikes...

I hope they come out with at least 2 more versions of them!

CB have got the books in so it should only be a mere week or so until they hit the FLGS in the UK

Heres some Ariadna specific info from the main Forum:

Penemue wrote:
I'm going to post up what we have so far - please correct me if anything is wrong, as I've had a very long day.

Brigadier Jacques Bruant (Metro)
25-27 points and 1 SWC
X-Visor, Limited Camo, Multiterrain.
Molotok and D-Charges.
Inferior Infiltration OR Lieutenant. Lieutenant option can link!

Briscards (MI)
24-34 points, AVA 2 vanilla / 5 Merovingia.
4-4 Mov. Linkable!
MSV1, Mountain terrain type, V: Courage.
Marksman Rifle, Sniper Rifle, or Heavy Rocket Launcher.
Forward Observer, Medikit, and Lieutenant options.

Scots Guard (MI)
18-42 points, AVA 2 vanilla / 5 Caledonia.
4-2 Mov.
2 SMGs + DEP, Molotok, or Missile Launcher.
1st Battalion (18-37 points) - Lieutenant option and linkable. AP Marksman Rifle option as well
2nd Battalion (23-42 points) - No Lt., not linkable, but has Camo.

Uxia (Regular and Covert Action)
Old Uxia hasn't changed.
New Uxia is 25 points - Limited Camo, Superior Infiltration, Specialist - Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades, 2 Assault Pistols.

I'm waiting to see more/details before passing judgement. But Covert Uxia makes me so happeeeee.....

At last! I got it!!

Here we go guys!

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Alright, are people still just assuming the new Ko Dali loses Yu Jing the old one, or is that explicitly stated? If it she is, then yeah, CB screwed up in allowing the meta-plot to invalidate someone's army.

It is confirmed, the profile has "this profile substitutes the previous..." line.

 BlueDagger wrote:

ALL HAIL BOSTRIA!

OFMG HAHAHAHAHA

@Boss Salvage, CDK and The CF -> About the Caliban:

- Ava is 2 for the CA, 5 linkable for the Shasvastii sectorial.
- 2 profiles, seed-embryo and grown form.
- Seed-embryo: PHIS 12, ARM 2, BP -3, W1.Automedikit, limited cammo, seed-embryo.
- grown form: MOV 4-2, CC 13, BS12, PHIs 12, WIP 13, ARM 2, BP -3, W1. Automedikit, Shasvastii.
- 10 different equipment options. 1x Hacker, 2x Engineer, 2x lower infiltration, 2xlower infiltration engineers. Lower infiltration minis can't be linked.
- The first 6 options (the ones without lower infiltration) have two point values. The second one is higher than the first one by one point (ex. 22/23). If you buy the troops paying the high cost, you can field them directly as a grown form.
- Weapons: CR, Feuerbach, boarding shotgun, nanopulser, D-Charges, pistols, assault pistols, knife.Cheapest is SWC 0 22p, most expensive is 0'5 SWC and 31p.

@Kan this is the best I can give you right now, sorry :S

Woo, thanks a lot Erasoketa!
Sadly, I'm not too impressed with the Caliban. I'm at a loss for as how to use them. You can either Inferior Infilitrate them forward, most likely getting tossed around in processs, or you can field them together, either as pods or as normal.
I think I will field mine in pod-form in my own deployment. I can't have any visible units on my side of the board then go defensive first turn and strike with my link team turn 2.
Aside from the Calibans, does Shas get anything else? (Hope you don't mind answering questions - I think you'll get a lot of them today )

 The CF wrote:
Woo, thanks a lot Erasoketa! [...] (Hope you don't mind answering questions - I think you'll get a lot of them today )

You're welcome, no problem at all. I still haven't read the scenarios, the campaign rules and such, I have only skimmed it. But stuff like army list data is very easy to find

 The CF wrote:
Aside from the Calibans, does Shas get anything else?

The list includes the profile for the already known Cadmus character (Sheskiin), and also a new equipment option for the Gwailos, a X Visor HRL for 36p and 1'5 SWC. Morat have been much more reinforced in this book:

- Raktorak (Morat Sergeant Majors), AVA 1 for CA and 2 for Morat sectorial. One of them can be linked to a Suryat team.
- Suryat: heavy infantry (ARM 3 W 2), AVA 2 for CA and 5 (linkable) for Sectorial, HMG, HRL, multi rifle, CR, Vulkan shotgun...
- Oznat (Morat hunting regiment), AVA 2, linkable with Gakis and/or Pretas
- Ikadron Batroid: baggage remote, in essence.
- Kornak Gazarot: Morat Superior Warrior-Officer, a character with a MK12, Light Flamethrower and Strategos lvl1.

And of course the new Ko Dali, only avaible for CA, not for sectorials.

Erasoketa, that's a great appetite teaser.

 Erasoketa wrote:
At last! I got it!!
It is confirmed, the profile has "this profile substitutes the previous..." line.

Thanks for the solid confirmation. That really kind of sucks.

[offtopicrantmode]

It means no chance of a resculpt for the Yu Jing version in the future. And if it was for reasons of balance then why isn't Van Zant getting the, er, axe? It seems like fixing tactical jump and allowing Yu Jing to continue playing Ko Dali in historical engagements would have been a better option.

I can only assume that it was for balance reasons in the end (much like the Achilles changes) but it seems odd that if Tactical Jump was the issue that perhaps that rule was the broken part and not the mini.

I am cool with the story moving forward and prior to this info I was completely cool with Ko Dali getting a sepsitorized profile in the new book. But having it utterly overwrite the other one seems like a boneheaded move to me. I guess in the end I'm glad I kept waiting for a resculpt of her because I still don't have the model, but now there are a fair few Yu Jing players that have a show piece model/proxy as far as their group is concerned.

When the hell was the last time someone complained about Tactical Jump Tiger armies being overpowered anyways? I swear it blipped when 2nd Edition was released and then never really came up again. It was kind of like the linked Hsien fear-mongering from Human Sphere. I mean, I'm sure now that the change has been made there will be all sorts crawling out to talk about how overpowered it was. But prior to this I don't recall it measuring as some kind of "tactic to beat" in the metagame.

It sucks that an otherwise stellar book was marred by a decision to erase a choice from the game in such a way that the faction that started with it can no longer use them. If power level had been an issue then do a stat rework like Uxia, McMurrough or Achilles AND give CA the option of their own Ko Dali. But taking an option from one list, striking it from the record, only to give it to a different faction. The problem isn't that the option was given to the Combined (I like that bit), the problem is that CB decided to inexplicable take an option from Yu Jing and didn't replace it with anything. I say again (because some people seem to be thinking that the CA getting the option is the problem):

I love that the Combined get Ko Dali and that the story line has moved forward. I dislike that it precludes Ko Dali still being an option for Yu Jing for no apparent reason. If it was for balance then they should have rebalanced Ko Dali in YJ lists (and Van Zant since he does the exact same thing), if it was for story purposes only then mentioning it in regards to the ITS seems odd. Either way I am not a fan of this being an overwrite and would have preferred both the Combined and YJ versions to remain viable options.

[endrantmode]

Well there, now I feel better.

And thanks to Erasoketa for the info!

Well, a Ko Dali vs Ko Dali matchup would be hard to justify. Just sayin.
X-Visor Gwailo sounds very much interesting.
Any info of the Spec-Ops? How do these work?

Well, a Ko Dali vs Ko Dali matchup would be hard to justify. Just sayin.

Considering the transhuman elements of the game, not really, no. The Warmachine standby of one of them being the imposter is much simpler than taking away an option in my mind.

And for the other question (from a post by Janzerker on the official forums):

Regarding the campaign, At moment I just gave a small glance at it, the Spec Ops.
Anyway, the Spec Ops mechanics are pretty simple to explain:
-The player can buy a Spec Op, which comes with the profile of the most basic units of each faction (there's a table specificating which ones) and can't never be the Lt.
-That profile will cost always the same pts an swc wise regardless of how much you modify as it progresses.
- You can chose whichever starting profile unit you wish from the table for your faction regardless you play a sectorial or generic and comes with all the equipment and weapons available to the standard option for this profile. So, I can choose a Gui Feng with Celestial Guard stats for my JSA or a Hafza for my Barhan. There's no reason not to do it, right?
- Well, there's one. The Spec OP still counts as the type of unit you chose and as a such is allowed to link with those of its kin. Therefore If my Guifeng is a Celestial Guard in my JSA I won't be able to link it with Keisotsus.
- By the means of the experience points gained during missions you can buy weapons, equipment, abilities and improve the stats of your spec op. There's a limit thought, a spec op can has up to 3 weapons other than the starting ones, 3 equipment options other than the starting ones and 3 abilities other than the starting ones. There are tables for buying abilities (a common table, there's no access to camo , camo TO or DDO, but you can buy you acces to AM 5, if you buy first AM 4 and AM 3 of course XD ), weapons (Ariadna, Tohaa, Haqq and CA have personal tables, the rest share another one only for them), equipment (common and very small, the most powerful ones are automedikit and Holoproyector 2, also you can buy a cube for your no cube spec ops XD ) and a general table for buying and increase in attributes (seems quite balanced and has limitations (WIP can't exceed 14, ARM can't exceed 5) W/EST can't exceed 2) yes you can buy 1 wound/estr for your spec op, if you can spend the 10 pexp it costs (an HMG the most expensive weapon costs 8 ) ).

And the list of starting options:

And the Spec Ops lists


SPEC-OPS: BASE TROOPS
PANOCEANIA: Indigo Spec-Ops Fusiliers, Acontecimento Regulars, Order Sergeants
YU JING:Guǐ Fēng Spec-Ops Keisotsu, Zhanshi, Celestial Guard
ARIADNA:Intel Spec-Ops Ariadnan Militias (Volunteers, Métros...), Line Kazaks
HAQQISLAM:Husam Spec-Ops Ghulam, Muyibs, Hafza
NOMADS:Vortex Spec-Ops Moderators from Bakunin, Alguaciles from Corregidor
ALEPH:Chandra Spec-Ops Thorakitai
COMBINED ARMY: Morat:Treitak Spec-Ops Morat Vanguard Infantry
COMBINED ARMY: Shasvastii:Corax Spec-Ops Shasvastii Seed-Soldiers
TOHAA:Hatail Spec-Ops Kamael Light Infantry

Haqqislam gets a really, really awesome choice in that they can start with the Hafza. That is some crazy flexibility. That said a well-equipped SpecOps in a Celestial Guard fireteam will be a nasty little piece of work.

Hafza spec-op... Oh my. Oh my god. My. I don't even.

As for the Corax... Meh D: I don't want my awesome Spec-Op to start in the pod every game.

Oh, and one more thing. Extra wound costs 10 exp, HMG costs 8. I think I can guesstimate what other things cost... But how much exp do you get? What factors decide how much is rewarded?
And... There is no optional rules for using a kitted Spec-Op in normal games? I was hoping for some kind of way to calculate what your Spec-Op would cost so you could run it in casual games with your opponents permission.

 The CF wrote:
Any info of the Spec-Ops? How do these work?

Pretty roughly, it works like this: the Spec-Ops starts as a very basic unit. You have to choose the standard loadout profile from your faction's most basic units. There is a list wich shows the allowed units for each faction. For example, an Ariadna player can choose between Line Kazak, a Volunteer or a Metro, and a Yu Jing player between Keisotsu, Zhanshi and Celestial guards. To align your Spec-Ops you pay the points and SWC of that mini. An Ariadna player who decides to base his Spec-Ops on a Line Kazak will pay 9 points and 0 SWC in every mission he is included, and he will have a Spec-Ops with a Rifle, Pistol and Knife, and the profile of a Line Kazak. We are not allowed to choose more specialized equipment, like engineers, special weapons, doctors... It has to be the basic rifle, CR, rifle+light shotgun guy. Your Spec-Ops can not be a LT. When you begin to play with him and earn XP, you can use them to buy more weapons and equipment, skills, and upgrade their stats. There are separate tables with the cost in XP for each faction.

I still don't know how the XP are earned, but I'm going to read it

Edit: ok, I'm being slow now

 Erasoketa wrote:

 The CF wrote:
Any info of the Spec-Ops? How do these work?

Pretty roughly, it works like this: the Spec-Ops starts as a very basic unit. You have to choose the standard loadout profile from your faction's most basic units. There is a list wich shows the allowed units for each faction. For example, an Ariadna player can choose between Line Kazak, a Volunteer or a Metro, and a Yu Jing player between Keisotsu, Zhanshi and Celestial guards. To align your Spec-Ops you pay the points and SWC of that mini. An Ariadna player who decides to base his Spec-Ops on a Line Kazak will pay 9 points and 0 SWC in every mission he is included, and he will have a Spec-Ops with a Rifle, Pistol and Knife, and the profile of a Line Kazak. We are not allowed to choose more specialized equipment, like engineers, special weapons, doctors... It has to be the basic rifle, CR, rifle+light shotgun guy. Your Spec-Ops can not be a LT. When you begin to play with him and earn XP, you can use them to buy more weapons and equipment, skills, and upgrade their stats. There are separate tables with the cost in XP for each faction.

I still don't know how the XP are earned, but I'm going to read it

Edit: ok, I'm being slow now

It's okay Erosa, I would be slow too. That you even reply is good enough, I would just lock myself in my room and isolate myself from the rest of the world until I finished reading the book