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I mean its a compromise between keeping players and retailers happy.

retailers want boxes, at least they give us all options with as few boxes as possible and all sculpts are unique.

I think the boxes as a compromise need a bit more work before they reach that point.

Take the Myrmidon box as an example.

It's nice to have all those options, but what about people who want to focus the models a bit more? The bodies are almost all the same so why not have the Combi Rifles x4, Boarding Shotguns x4, Chain Rifles x4, or CCWs x4?

Because that requires too much resources on CB's part. Look at how much a weapon sprue increases the cost of the SpecOps and multiply that difference by four.

The one thing I disagree with regarding the boxes is that the logic seems backwards. As it stands, the common weapons are in the boxed sets whereas the 'heavy' weapons have special sculpts and are sold in blisters.

The 'heavy' weapons such as Spitfires should be part of the boxed set because you're 'meant' to get the box only once. You'll probably only need one Myrmidon/Odalisque with a Spitfire or one Haramaki with a ML... put it in the boxed set; even if it has a 'typical' body type, it'll be offset by the blatantly unique weapon.
The blisters should be reserved for "expansions" to the boxed set so they include an extra model with a Rifle or Shotgun in case you want to run two. Perhaps they can even raise the price slightly and offer a variety of weapon options (like doctor parts for Haqqislam).

Am I wishlisting too much?

EDIT: On second glance, it seems they're heading down this path after all. The Muyib set includes the Spitfire, HRL, and DEP. The Wu Ming set has a ML and HMG.
...then again they released the Spitfire Kaplan in a blister.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Because that requires too much resources on CB's part. Look at how much a weapon sprue increases the cost of the SpecOps and multiply that difference by four.

It's not just the weapon sprue that increased that cost. It seems to be almost GW in that it also includes an extra head (or in the case of the Intel SpecOps, a second arm choice) and is going to be something you will only buy one of.

The one thing I disagree with regarding the boxes is that the logic seems backwards. As it stands, the common weapons are in the boxed sets whereas the 'heavy' weapons have special sculpts and are sold in blisters.

The 'heavy' weapons such as Spitfires should be part of the boxed set because you're 'meant' to get the box only once. You'll probably only need one Myrmidon/Odalisque with a Spitfire or one Haramaki with a ML... put it in the boxed set; even if it has a 'typical' body type, it'll be offset by the blatantly unique weapon.
The blisters should be reserved for "expansions" to the boxed set so they include an extra model with a Rifle or Shotgun in case you want to run two. Perhaps they can even raise the price slightly and offer a variety of weapon options (like doctor parts for Haqqislam).

Am I wishlisting too much?

No, but I think we're at different ends of the spectrum for what we'd like out of boxes.

In my opinion, the most logical thing would have been to have the "basic" options in the boxed set with the blisters having special options.

EDIT: On second glance, it seems they're heading down this path after all. The Muyib set includes the Spitfire, HRL, and DEP. The Wu Ming set has a ML and HMG.
...then again they released the Spitfire Kaplan in a blister.

See, that was a bit of a weird one to me as well for the Muyibs.

Until you remember that there are 3 profiles of the Muyib including a D.E.P.
It just makes sense to include the D.E.P. at that point. And remember, not just the Spitfire Kaplan got released in a blister. The Spitfire Wildcat did as well.

But why?

The "basic" options of Rifles, Shotguns, etc are not uncommonly fielded in multiples. It's immensely rare for someone to field multiple models with a sniper/ML/spitfire.

Hence you only buy the boxed set once, get 2 basic models and 2 heavy weapons, and then consider buying a "booster" blister if you want to go the common route of fielding more riflemen.

Or for those that just want to try out a Muyib/Myrmidon/etc without buying the whole boxed set, they could get a "common" model with minimal cost. If they like it, they can get the whole boxed set without fear of duplicate models.

Honestly?

Because I've always found it easier to convince people to get into games when I can show them a boxed set for units rather than "You'll need this blister, this blister, and this blister to field a unit".

That's what starter sets area for.

Want to play Haqqislam? Pick up the Starter and blister or two that you think looks cool.
You think the Muyibs look cool? Pick up the blister, it comes with a standard guy. You think Odalisques look cool? Pick up the blister, it comes with a standard rifle. Low-cost.

A week later, if they hate Odalisques and like Muyibs, they pick up the boxed set that comes with more 'advanced' options like Heavy Rocket Launchers and Spitfires.

As it stands, if a new player really likes the look of the Haramaki, their only options are the entire boxed set of several models or the one with the rocket launcher.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Honestly?

Because I've always found it easier to convince people to get into games when I can show them a boxed set for units rather than "You'll need this blister, this blister, and this blister to field a unit".

Thats funny, I seem to recall Infinity having sets like that already.

The thing that drew me to Infinity was specifically the a la carte approach to buying a force. Moving to all boxes... isn't the direction I hoped they'd go.

 Baiyuan wrote:
@PS: You're right of course that it would steer an uproar, but you cannot be serious to call it a compromise from a customer's point of view. Where are they making concessions to the customers? It's Hobson's choice!
I want it, so I have to buy it no matter the conditions, which are actually in favour of retailers and distributors.

Privateer Press in the U.S. has an online store where they sell the following:
- Their plastic starter boxes
- The individual parts for each metal model (single piece models that are sold one-per-blister not included)

The prices are set so that it costs more to buy a complete model part by part than it does to buy the model through normal retail channels. And that's before the shipping and handling fees structured for a person shifting through parts bins and filling orders by hand. I might not pay close attention, but I've never read about people complaining that their parts store undercuts anyone.

So how much of an individual parts tax are you willing to accept?

 solkan wrote:

 Baiyuan wrote:
@PS: You're right of course that it would steer an uproar, but you cannot be serious to call it a compromise from a customer's point of view. Where are they making concessions to the customers? It's Hobson's choice!
I want it, so I have to buy it no matter the conditions, which are actually in favour of retailers and distributors.

Privateer Press in the U.S. has an online store where they sell the following:
- Their plastic starter boxes
- The individual parts for each metal model (single piece models that are sold one-per-blister not included)

The prices are set so that it costs more to buy a complete model part by part than it does to buy the model through normal retail channels. And that's before the shipping and handling fees structured for a person shifting through parts bins and filling orders by hand. I might not pay close attention, but I've never read about people complaining that their parts store undercuts anyone.

So how much of an individual parts tax are you willing to accept?

Personally, I'd be willing to pay double the cost of a full miniature for that type of service. Espescially if I'd be able to buy the starter set exclusive minis that way.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Honestly?

Because I've always found it easier to convince people to get into games when I can show them a boxed set for units rather than "You'll need this blister, this blister, and this blister to field a unit".

Thats funny, I seem to recall Infinity having sets like that already.

The thing that drew me to Infinity was specifically the a la carte approach to buying a force. Moving to all boxes... isn't the direction I hoped they'd go.

Units != starter boxes.

Let's make a bit of speculation here. Let's say someone wants to do a Briscard heavy force for Merovingia.
Then let's say that the Briscard box has 2x Marksman Rifles and 2x Sniper Rifles.
A unit of AVA 5 with decent costs and options for a Lieutenant and various special weapons.
To get 3x Marksman Rifles, 1x Sniper Rifle, and 1x Heavy Rocket Launcher would involve 2 boxes and a blister pack.
If they were to do a "Unit Box" with 4x Marksman Rifles in various poses, one box would give you a Lieutenant and 3x Marksman Rifles. Leaving you an extra which could easily be converted to a Sniper Rifle, given the Intel's spare Sniper Rifle and then you'd just need the HRL blister and an Intel SpecOps(which most people are going to be getting anyways).

What good is the Merovingian starter box to them then?

Or for that matter, what good is the basic Ariadna box to someone who wants to do Merovingia?
Aside from the Chasseur, that's a completely useless box to a Merovingia player.

And what if someone just wanted to add the Bricard HML with no intention of ever having any others? They have to buy the full Briscard box, and just suck it up that they effectively paid $50 for one model?

Then they'd buy a blister, since that's what I'm advocating with Special Weapons being in a blister format not part of the starter boxes?

But that's not what's happening. The Muyib box sets a new precedent, of everything going in two different boxes. I know if my friend asked me 'Hey, I want to add a rifle Muyib to my army, where do I get it now' and I told them 'buy one of two $50 boxes', they simply go back to 40k.

Hell, the reason I sold my brother and a friend on this game was the very flexible availability of models. If this continues, I'll likely lose those people as opponents.

We don't actually know that the Muyib box is going to be the precedent from here on out. That's conjecture.

Hopefully they'll realize that the backlash from this one necessitates a rethink in how they do it.

Of course it's conjecture. My other point still stands - if you want to just add one normal guy with a rifle, and the only way to get it is by buying one of two $50 boxes, this game has ceased to be affordable.

The 'boxed squad' thing works for some units, but they really need to keep a way to buy them separately, because while, hey, buying a full firetam is cool, not everyone is going to want a full fireteam. If someone isn't buying into a Sectorial, and the only way to get the 5 models they want is to buy 5 boxed sets, the game simply becomes more expensive than even 40k to get what you want on a model by model basis.

The difference being that in the case of the Muyibs, the "normal guy with a rifle" is also the guy with the DEP.

The only model which has the Rifle+Light Shotgun without the DEP is the Muyib with a Panzerfaust.

Muyibs and many of the Hassassin in general are a special case. Each has a specialized role and the Muyib's role is making things explode. They have tons of mines, missiles, rockets, E/Maulers, and DEPpy things. Makes sense that the box has these items.

Not necessarily a precedent, but if it is once, I think it's a good thing, but other people don't seem to agree. Ultimately, I personally don't care because I've always had a "gotta catch 'em all" mentality when it comes to my factions (Aleph and Haqqislam).

I just figured that a box of one-time-buys of 'special weapons' and common weapons would appeal to people wanting multiples of the unit.
A blister of a model with a "common" weapon would appeal to a new player starting out or a veteran player looking to expand their link-team with the 'common' weapon.
After all, the highlight of units such as Odalisques, Myrmidons, Haramaki, and Muyibs are not their weapons, but their special abilities and role. It just so happens that their abilities often let their armaments shine.

There is a Myrmidon box with a variety and there is a Myrmidon blister with a Spitfire. I've never found myself wanting more than one Spitfire, but I've often found myself wishing I had two with Combi Rifles.

I tend towards Loki's point of view.
I only got my primary opponent into buying his initial force, because I told him he could pretty much buy whatever he liked and make it work somehow.
He liked the Nomads, but hated the contents of the boxes, so he bought just blisters and a tag.
Had I told him he had to buy the starter box otherwise he would only have special weapons, he wouldn't have picked up the game at that point.
For example the shotgun hellcat he bought has been fielded like that every game.
The spitfire prowler has so far been equipped with anything but a spitfire.

From my (an Aleph player's) point of view, how am I ever supposed to get together enough myrmidons with chain rifles? I know there is a "blank" one without ranged weapon in the box, but that's just silly imo and I'd still have to buy two boxes to fill up those order monkeys. They are almost identical and the only miniature that has a different pose and that I can easily stock up on is the spitfire version of which I'll hardly ever need two with all those spitfired enomotarchos out there.

 Absolutionis wrote:
After all, the highlight of units such as Odalisques, Myrmidons, Haramaki, and Muyibs are not their weapons, but their special abilities and role.

Of course, and to add one, you now need to spend $50 on that one Muyib/Odalisuq/Myrmidon. The rest are models you didn't want. Which I can't see increasing their sales, but I can see annoying people enough to not buy the box.

So, yes...

The solution is to offer a box of basic and special weapons for whoever just wants several as a core or for starting off.
And also offer a blister with one or two models with a very basic armament of rifle/shotgun/whatever.

Infinity has gotten big enough that stocking the enormous quantity of blisters is no longer attractive for retail stores and distributors.
I do agree with you that it would be rather nice for Corvus Belli and other willing internet stores to simply offer individual models.
Regardless, for everything else, there's Cho/Shae-Konnit.

Now I love me some Infinity, and I'll certainly let a lot slide in here, but can you guys kindly take that particular discussion over to the Infinity Forum and let this one be about... News and Rumors?

Thanks!

This guy has made some pretty good videos teaching Infinity. Thought you should see and maybe make comments.

According to sources on the forums, the December releases are going to be revealed on http://infinityo-12.com/main/ podcast at midnight Spanish time December 1st (when November becomes December).

They'll also be cross-posted on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/CorvusBelli

Oh, and that thing is probably a Raichu


I really hope that wide-based thing is Aleph's Penthesilea and she's actually riding the motorcycle competently rather than being a motorshow girl or a Kum biker ass-raise. The Aragoto is excellent as is; just add character.

it would be awesome to see December releases so quickly.... so, we will see Raicho.... I am counting on Corregidor starter and last but not least SCOT GUARD (of course this is just my wish)

and yes biker girl for Aleph would be awesome, but it will mean really hard month for my wallet

That big thing on the table is the Raicho, without a doubt.

What interests me is the stuff in the case. There's definitely some kind of Heavy Infantry in there.

The first picture of the Raicho and Alpharius hasn't commented yet!?

He's commented before on the WIP shots that Angel teased us with.

Yes, but this one is more pose-recognizable (although smaller)

Anyway I expect him to comment on all the new pictures, or otherwise lose the #1 Raicho fan status !


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually looking back at the Studio Giraldez teaser I am not 100% convinced this is the Raicho in the new pick....

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=436892759704970&set=pb.436491416411771.-2207520000.1354281031&type=3&theater

Of course it very well COULD be the different angel, but the right weapon arm seems to be lower, the feet don't seem to be going over the edges as much, and I don't see the codpiece. The left leg also doesn't seem to be massive enough.

So Idk, but what else could it be?

I have to sleep sometime!

And then get up and get the girls ready for school!

And then drive to work!

And then... check the Internet!

So... this is good news, and this is WAY earlier than I though we'd see any pics of December's stuff.

So, yeah, December will get off to a good start!

Good times!



There probably won't be a Raicho under my Christmas Tree, but it looks like there will be one in my house by early 2013!