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It can be smart business to sell a starter with one of the popular armies (so it's a worthwhile buy and attractive to players),

plus another that's not so popular (as a force to play against at the beginning, to artificially boost that faction due to the low cost and not to cannibalise too many future sales of both your best selling factions)

 Knight wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Knight wrote:

Interesting that it is PanO vs Nomads...

I don't know. There were other alternatives. The two candidates would make rather classic "steal the corporate secrets" mission. But, we'll see.

I just want new line infantry.

Nomads and PanO are some of the most popular factions, so it makes sense.

Do you perhaps have official data chart to validate it? It's not that I don't believe you, as this was my thought as well. However I've based it on rather dated information when PanO were second on how well they sell (Aleph being the first as I recall). Nomads are very popular with my local players and unofficial surveys and traffic around various forums indicate the same trend, it becomes a problem of how much you're willing trust yours and other observations.

I don't have the data offhand but I'm pretty positive that they've posted a chart concerning such at events.

I believe they've mentioned sales before for most factions being fairly even. Aleph slightly ahead, PanO higher up there, but the others are all pretty close. I think Ariadna's below the average a little, and CA is last by a fairly substantial margin.

I think 10 man groups will remain, but as this is a 'starter' and, presumably, something to help beginners, they maybe wanted groups that were a bit more manageable.

And, well, cost.

Man, it's too bad that CA are behind. There's gotta be a way to make the aliens more appealing. Perhaps some scenarios that cast them as the protagonists? Like the Shazvastii saving one of their breeding creches from human saboteurs, or the Morats engaging the enemy commander in an honor duel?

As for Araidna, a Kazak sectorial would probably bring those sales numbers up REAL fast.

I think the issue with the CA is that they seem a little directionless. You have the MAF, and the Shas stuff. But the thing that is the most interesting to me is the EI stuff. Once the EI sectorial drops I bet you'll see an interesting shift.

And I really really want to paint an Anathematic. SOBAD.

 Alpharius wrote:
I think 10 man groups will remain, but as this is a 'starter' and, presumably, something to help beginners, they maybe wanted groups that were a bit more manageable.

And, well, cost.

...and as opposed to current starter sets, this set may have two sides that are equally balanced in points.

...and maybe even an excuse to resculpt Fusiliers and Alguaciles.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I think 10 man groups will remain, but as this is a 'starter' and, presumably, something to help beginners, they maybe wanted groups that were a bit more manageable.

And, well, cost.

...and as opposed to current starter sets, this set may have two sides that are equally balanced in points.

...and maybe even an excuse to resculpt Fusiliers and Alguaciles.

VERY good points there - and probably spot on! _

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:
I think the issue with the CA is that they seem a little directionless. You have the MAF, and the Shas stuff. But the thing that is the most interesting to me is the EI stuff. Once the EI sectorial drops I bet you'll see an interesting shift.

And I really really want to paint an Anathematic. SOBAD.

I totally agree; an EI sectorial I think would really spark this faction's #'s. I don't think it's so much a "lack of direction" (MAF and Shas, are nicely defined and unified in their respective themes) but rather its the transitional miniatures line that is really deterring players from jumping in in my opinion. Only recently have we finally gotten awesome new morats. However key morat units are still very much in the old 'style' creating a tough sell to jump into morats right now (who wants to invest in old sclupts that are inconsistent with the new awesome?) as you would expect i think people are just waiting it out. Furthermore the old EI units mash horribly with new morats and shas. I truly believe alot of infinty players *want* to play combined, by end up investing in the new shiney of other human factions as they wait out modernization of the combined minatures line.

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:I think the issue with the CA is that they seem a little directionless. You have the MAF, and the Shas stuff. But the thing that is the most interesting to me is the EI stuff. Once the EI sectorial drops I bet you'll see an interesting shift.

And I really really want to paint an Anathematic. SOBAD.

Well, the big thing that needs to be taken into consideration is this:
The SEF starter is pretty much one of the worst offenders in the whole "A starter that isn't really a starter" thing. It just isn't really doable. Add to it that SEF have a single boxed set(the Sphinx) and it becomes one of those issues of "Where exactly am I supposed to even really start?" for players that might be interested in the faction.
The way that Morats are being redone is wonderful as it addresses those kinds of concerns. Someone can easily "get into the game" with the MAF starter and the Vanguard box, or the MAF starter and a Daturazi box or a Yaogat box.

Expect the EI to be done similarly.

Absolutionis wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I think 10 man groups will remain, but as this is a 'starter' and, presumably, something to help beginners, they maybe wanted groups that were a bit more manageable.

And, well, cost.

...and as opposed to current starter sets, this set may have two sides that are equally balanced in points.

...and maybe even an excuse to resculpt Fusiliers and Alguaciles.

For what it's worth, I've been hearing rumblings that this is not where we're getting Alguaciles. We might get Fusiliers(or the Svalarheima equivalent, since each of the PanO factions have had some kind of Fusilier equivalent or simply access to Fusiliers) but I'm thinking that won't be the case.

Each side is looking at 7 models per side, which aligns perfectly with the a starter box and Dire Foes.
Personally? Here's what I think we're getting:
PanOceania
ORC Trooper with MULTI Rifle(Svalarheima is the perfect place to put ORCs in for a Sectorial)
3x of whatever the Light Infantry will be (I'm kind of hoping for a non-Fusilier, as it's nice to see things like the Regulars or Order Sergeants or Auxilia, all of which are the 'local' veteran variant of Fusiliers)
A SpecOps that utilizes said profile(probably would be made available in a Dire Foes set)
A Niss model
Another new unit, most likely some kind of TO Camo unit since each PanO Sectorial seems to have at least one unit.

Nomads
Kriza Borac(the Tunguskan Heavy Infantry, which purportedly has TO Camo)
3x Securitate
A Securitate based SpecOps
Grenzer(Tunguskan Skirmisher with MSV L1)
Maybe a Spektr?

Then there is one model in "grey" which likely would be a civilian/objective for a future Dire Foes box.

ORCs in a Svalarheima sectorial (and new ORC sculpts!) would make me VERY happy.

Along with Nisses in a sectorial.

And JOTUMS, of course.

Jotums and Nisses are a given, the only question is what else would be in there.

Although I guess with Jotums and Nisses there isn't really a need for a hell of a lot else, is there?

 Savnock wrote:
Man, it's too bad that CA are behind. There's gotta be a way to make the aliens more appealing. Perhaps some scenarios that cast them as the protagonists? Like the Shazvastii saving one of their breeding creches from human saboteurs, or the Morats engaging the enemy commander in an honor duel?

I'd wait for market's reaction to Ikadron (?) units. I don't think the real problem is being portrayed as antagonists.

I suspect with the Morat refresh that the MAF will gain in popularity.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Jotums and Nisses are a given, the only question is what else would be in there.

Although I guess with Jotums and Nisses there isn't really a need for a hell of a lot else, is there?

Order Monkeys. Jotums have an unquenchable appetite for orders.

Svalarheim will need a decent LI and HI unit or two. Fusiliers and ORCs would work. I'd rather see a unique LI though, like we get with the ASA-- regulars ,or with the MO-- Order Sergeants, or even the NCA with the Auxilia. Varuna will be getting the Kamau. A skirmisher would be cool too.

The box looks like 2 starters and a dire foes box. Some dice and templates thrown in. I wonder about printed material though, because of the language issues. That was the reason given for not including the scenarios in the Dire Foes box. Still, very intriguing.

Going to be a very interesting summer for Infinity.

I have to agree with the ideas the a lot of the CA's popularity problems will be fixed with re-sculpts and the new faction. Honestly I don't know where I am going to get the money for all this awesome stuff that is coming out. Really want to see this new starter though, this may be how I am able to get a friend to jump into the game. Can't wait for more details to be released.

Huh, this interests me. The nomad half especially, though I dont have anything against pan-o. Looking forward to seeing just what's in he box!

 GrimDork wrote:
Huh, this interests me. The nomad half especially, though I dont have anything against pan-o. Looking forward to seeing just what's in he box!

Hell, if I can get another faction easily and add to my PanO, I'd take it!

Yeah, this seems like the best place to shuffle in resculpts for Fusiliers and Alguaciles as well as possibly redoing a few other starter box staples for both factions (Mobile Brigada is fairly likely given what we know). So my bet is that we will at least see new sculpts to replace two of the oldest line trooper sculpts in the game (now that the MAF starter has redone Vanguard).

I'm interested to see the terrain it comes with.

Alguaciles and Fusiliers are getting their own boxes...

Is it possible for them to make an appearance in this? Sure...but given that Corregidor(home to Alguaciles and Mobile Brigada) have yet to receive a 'link team boxed set' (something that CB is trying to ensure that each Sectorial has in addition to their starter box), that chance looks more unlikely.

What's more someone pointed out that what was originally being thought of as a Mobile Brigada seems to have a more 'lacquered' finish to it, which is something we have only started seeing with Tunguska...who have a Heavy Infantry that is purportedly going to appear in the 3rd edition book alongside of units like the Kazak Spetsnaz.

I was kind of pegging fusiliers for a four special profiles box and three CR's in a (revamped) vanilla starter, like Bolts just got, though. That starter reaaally needs replacing and given CB's propensity for reducing SKU count of late, it'd fit.
Only having those fusiliers in a 2 faction starter would seem odd.
Of course, there's something to be said for just making it two regular starters and an equally separately available DF box in terms of keeping minis available for purchase in a reasonable way.

While I know you're against vanilla starters Kan, I wouldn't be surprised if they use this as an excuse to do new vanilla starters for PanO and Nomads. They're the only human factions left with old starters. Throw in a new Dire Foe box to make up the 7th model per side and the civvie and you've got a 2 player starter but also can release all the boxes individually for vets.

"New" Vanilla starters as in whole new models rather than just "It's the vanilla starter with new sculpts" is entirely possible, in my opinion.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that done for all of the factions though. We've already seen the original Combined Army starter pulled.

Honestly, I think it might be simply vanilla starters with resculpts, like every other human faction. While I know the original Combined Army starter was pulled, that's the only one. The original, old Nomad and Panoceania starters are still up, and begging for the treatment Ardiadna, Haqqislam and Yu Jing got for their vanilla starters.

I'm probably way off, but Operation Icestorm just seems like a great opportunity to resculpt them to bring them up to par with current sculpting standards and also combine them with a Dire Foes box to make a 2 player starter. Then also release them as individual units for people not looking for the whole 2 player set.

For packaging then, all they need to do is throw the already pre-packed starters and Dire Foes box into a larger box that has the Quickstart rules, cardstock terrain, dice and templates.

Is this Dire Foes speculation just based on the number of silhouettes or did I miss something more concrete?

 Knight wrote:
I'd wait for market's reaction to Ikadron (?) units. I don't think the real problem is being portrayed as antagonists.

From my experience as a single retailer, the Ikadron blister sells 3-4 times as well as any single Shasvastii blister. Not as well as the new Morat boxes but it's a reasonably steady seller.

Came from the model count of 7 vs 7 and a civvie. Starter boxes are 6 models, Dire Foes are 2 plus a civvie. So 6 + 1 vs 6 + 1 and a civvie looks like 2 starters and a Dire Foes set.

OK, so not something concrete.

 IJW wrote:
Is this Dire Foes speculation just based on the number of silhouettes or did I miss something more concrete?

 Knight wrote:
I'd wait for market's reaction to Ikadron (?) units. I don't think the real problem is being portrayed as antagonists.

From my experience as a single retailer, the Ikadron blister sells 3-4 times as well as any single Shasvastii blister. Not as well as the new Morat boxes but it's a reasonably steady seller.

I'm not surprised Morat are selling a bit better, as they are more recent release. For instance, there are PanO collectors in my area but they don't play as much. Some of them preferring to play with other armies, however with the talk of NCA getting more attention there was a spike in interest. Similarly, I expect Ikadron sales to jump up once the hype for their sectorial starts.

Someone was telling me that aliens were always hard to sell, with the market preferring more human-like factions. I'm not going to disagree with it, I like the EI and Exrah (bug-like antagonists which great for "man versus wild" theme).

-Loki- wrote:Honestly, I think it might be simply vanilla starters with resculpts, like every other human faction. While I know the original Combined Army starter was pulled, that's the only one. The original, old Nomad and Panoceania starters are still up, and begging for the treatment Ardiadna, Haqqislam and Yu Jing got for their vanilla starters.

I'm probably way off, but Operation Icestorm just seems like a great opportunity to resculpt them to bring them up to par with current sculpting standards and also combine them with a Dire Foes box to make a 2 player starter. Then also release them as individual units for people not looking for the whole 2 player set.

For packaging then, all they need to do is throw the already pre-packed starters and Dire Foes box into a larger box that has the Quickstart rules, cardstock terrain, dice and templates.

The original Combined Army starter is the only one pulled now. And that's because the Morat Vanguard got put into the MAF box. The CA starter was a holdover because the MAF box did not exist.

Once the MAF box existed, there was no real reason to keep the CA starter around. Whenever we see Alguaciles and Fusiliers come out, then those "original starters" have no reason to exist as well.

Bolognesus wrote:I was kind of pegging fusiliers for a four special profiles box and three CR's in a (revamped) vanilla starter, like Bolts just got, though. That starter reaaally needs replacing and given CB's propensity for reducing SKU count of late, it'd fit.
Only having those fusiliers in a 2 faction starter would seem odd.
Of course, there's something to be said for just making it two regular starters and an equally separately available DF box in terms of keeping minis available for purchase in a reasonable way.

Remember that Fusiliers are going to be in the Varuna(the "aquatic" world, where the various Fusiliers in the 2nd edition rulebook are actually labeled as being "Varuna Fusiliers" rather than just "Fusiliers") Sectorial for PanO. As it stands right now Varuna is actually a bit more fleshed out than Svalarheima, as we know that Varuna has a hefty presence of Fusiliers, the Kamau, and Croc Men.

All we know for Svalarheima is Jotums and Nisses--and that inevitably they'll have some kind of Fusilier equivalent, along with a HI(ORCs make the most sense).
Varuna is in a similar position as Tunguska as we have a good idea as to what the Sectorial has. Varuna is home to the Kamau, has significant numbers of Croc Men in its antiterrorist forces, and is where the Cutter officially hails from. We also know that it's one of the planets where they don't have a "local Fusilier equivalent" but actually have Fusiliers.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Knight wrote:

 IJW wrote:
Is this Dire Foes speculation just based on the number of silhouettes or did I miss something more concrete?

 Knight wrote:
I'd wait for market's reaction to Ikadron (?) units. I don't think the real problem is being portrayed as antagonists.

From my experience as a single retailer, the Ikadron blister sells 3-4 times as well as any single Shasvastii blister. Not as well as the new Morat boxes but it's a reasonably steady seller.

I'm not surprised Morat are selling a bit better, as they are more recent release. For instance, there are PanO collectors in my area but they don't play as much. Some of them preferring to play with other armies, however with the talk of NCA getting more attention there was a spike in interest. Similarly, I expect Ikadron sales to jump up once the hype for their sectorial starts.

Someone was telling me that aliens were always hard to sell, with the market preferring more human-like factions. I'm not going to disagree with it, I like the EI and Exrah (bug-like antagonists which great for "man versus wild" theme).

I don't think that aliens are a hard sell, just that the Combined Army suffered from a distinctive lack of focus. Whenever I have heard people describe them to interested persons, the Combined Army is most often described like the Covenant from the "Halo" games with note made that they do not have the distinctive 'ranks' associated with the various races in place.

The Tohaa have been a phenomenal seller, with boxes going out of stock regularly.

While I can barely shift Tohaa at all. :(

I just want to play one game where I actually get to USE the thing that makes Varuna so awesome.

They're like the Navy SEALS of Infinity. Once they have more Kamau, I'm definitely running them with a Cutter.

If only we played with actual WATER in a game. *shakes fist* One day... one day.