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I was recently browsing through Lexicanum and found a little piece of fluff on The Emperor of Mankind's page. It mentioned a group of extremely talented individuals who went around The Imperium, gathering the "True" Children of The Emperor. They are extensively hunted by the Inquisition, even though most of their members are Inquisitors. They plan on sacrificing The Children of The Emperor at the very second that The Emperor's will falters. The resultant release of spirit's wil be similar to the original release of the of spirits from the Old Earth Shamans, revitalising The Emperor so that he can lead mankind directly.

And finally a link: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Illuminati

no longer valid until further notice. Whats your question again?

What do you think of the Illuminati?

The background information comes from 'Slaves to Darkness' which was published back in 1989, though it has never been explicity contradicted - indeed it was mentioned obliquely in 3rd edition - it has not been a significant part of the universe since.

I would speculate that, since the names 'Sensei' and 'Illuminati' are rather lame and clichéd, were these concepts to be revived in the game's background, they would be rebooted entirely, rather than reintroduced as the were.

I thought it was part of a fluff concept I thought was really neat. I didn't like the use of the word sensei but that's my only gripe. A shame they axed it.

My DIY chapter is actually based off them as I think this fluff despite being neglected, not retconned as some think, is awesome.

ah; i think they could have picked something better than Sensei and Illuminati. Every conspiracy organization goes with that name and i get so sick and bleeding tired of it. They could have done better. Interesting idea poor execution with the names. I hop[e they revisit it with different branding for both bits.

Illuminati can stay.
Sensei need to go, though.

Ironsight wrote:Illuminati can stay.
Sensei need to go, though.

Why would you keep one and not the other

Nicholas wrote:

Ironsight wrote:Illuminati can stay.
Sensei need to go, though.

Why would you keep one and not the other

The same reasons I like the Inquisition, and am glad the Squats are gone.

I think this stuff, along with the starchild/hydra idea, is the most interesting backstory in 40k. I assume it's been done away with both because it probably seems too optimistic for the background & doesn't have a product line to which it can be attached. The idea that cutting the emperor free of the golden throne might make him an actual god or might be some kind of evil conspiracy disguised as the one actually good group in the galaxy's pretty great.

As I mentioned above, it hasn't been 'axed' or 'done away with' - it has never been explicitly retconned, and the sly but deliberate reference made in 3rd edition implies the old Realm of Chaos background is still considered canonical.

Darth Badguy wrote:I think this stuff, along with the starchild/hydra idea, is the most interesting backstory in 40k. I assume it's been done away with both because it probably seems too optimistic for the background & doesn't have a product line to which it can be attached. The idea that cutting the emperor free of the golden throne might make him an actual god or might be some kind of evil conspiracy disguised as the one actually good group in the galaxy's pretty great.

The Cult of the Star Child may or may not be related to the Long Watch of the Illuminati (the Illuminati themselves referred to the splinter of the Emperor as the Numen). In the 3rd edition rulebook, there is a brief story about the Inquisition uncovering a Tzeenchian cult called "The Cult of the Star Child", and massacring them all.

As for the names Illuminati and Sensei, they are indeed incredibly cheesy, but that's because the author of the Inquisition War is absolutely god awful. The stories and ideas are interesting, but his writing style is horrendous and a chore to work through.

Omegus wrote:

Darth Badguy wrote:I think this stuff, along with the starchild/hydra idea, is the most interesting backstory in 40k. I assume it's been done away with both because it probably seems too optimistic for the background & doesn't have a product line to which it can be attached. The idea that cutting the emperor free of the golden throne might make him an actual god or might be some kind of evil conspiracy disguised as the one actually good group in the galaxy's pretty great.

The Cult of the Star Child may or may not be related to the Long Watch of the Illuminati (the Illuminati themselves referred to the splinter of the Emperor as the Numen). In the 3rd edition rulebook, there is a brief story about the Inquisition uncovering a Tzeenchian cult called "The Cult of the Star Child", and massacring them all.

Not quite. That Inquisitor uncovered a Cult of the Star Child he believed was a Tzeentchian cult. It is amazing how many people get this point of detail wrong or have trouble distinguishing between what a character says/believes and what might actually be the true situation. Just because a character in the 40K universe believes something does not mean it is actually true. He could have been completely wrong and ended up destroying or setting back humanity's chance of hope. What is more dark than humanity screwing up through stupidity and bigoted self righteousness, a genuine chance of hope and success?

As for the names Illuminati and Sensei, they are indeed incredibly cheesy, but that's because the author of the Inquisition War is absolutely god awful. The stories and ideas are interesting, but his writing style is horrendous and a chore to work through.

Ian Watson didn't invent them. They were in Realms of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned.

Iracundus wrote:

Omegus wrote:

Darth Badguy wrote:I think this stuff, along with the starchild/hydra idea, is the most interesting backstory in 40k. I assume it's been done away with both because it probably seems too optimistic for the background & doesn't have a product line to which it can be attached. The idea that cutting the emperor free of the golden throne might make him an actual god or might be some kind of evil conspiracy disguised as the one actually good group in the galaxy's pretty great.

The Cult of the Star Child may or may not be related to the Long Watch of the Illuminati (the Illuminati themselves referred to the splinter of the Emperor as the Numen). In the 3rd edition rulebook, there is a brief story about the Inquisition uncovering a Tzeenchian cult called "The Cult of the Star Child", and massacring them all.

Not quite. That Inquisitor uncovered a Cult of the Star Child he believed was a Tzeentchian cult. It is amazing how many people get this point of detail wrong or have trouble distinguishing between what a character says/believes and what might actually be the true situation. Just because a character in the 40K universe believes something does not mean it is actually true. He could have been completely wrong and ended up destroying or setting back humanity's chance of hope. What is more dark than humanity screwing up through stupidity and bigoted self righteousness, a genuine chance of hope and success?

Well, be that as it may, the Cult of the Star Child has no direct relation to the Illuminati and Sensei that I'm aware of. In fact, the only time we heard about the Cult was when it was destroyed.

By bad about the names, but I stand by my criticism of Ian Watson. Some of his passages are just painful, and after reading the trilogy I am glad all the Squats are dead and burried.

English Assassin wrote:As I mentioned above, it hasn't been 'axed' or 'done away with' - it has never been explicitly retconned, and the sly but deliberate reference made in 3rd edition implies the old Realm of Chaos background is still considered canonical.

Fair enough. I was thinking about how it hasn't been explicitly mentioned since, what, 1998? It hasn't been removed from the background like the squats, just brushed aside like genestealer cult armies and zoats.

The books were republished quite recently as a compilation.

 Omegus wrote:
The books were republished quite recently as a compilation.

Just found this. Do you mean the Realms of Chaos books, or the Jaq Draco / Ian Watson trilogy?

The Ian Watson abomination.

Illuminati were a cool concept, but they'll likely never appear again. GW studio material has focused on a very simple open-ended narrative while BL is assigned either space marines battling on X interchangeable world with Y interchangeable foe, minor self-contained side-stories, or dragging out the Horus heresy

I thought the first book in that trilogy was pretty good, while the third was pure bile. I never read thesecond.

 Zinderneuf wrote:
I thought the first book in that trilogy was pretty good, while the third was pure bile. I never read thesecond.

In the omnibus there's 3 novels and 2 short stories. The short stories and the first 2 books are good. Didn't like the third one.

I love Ian Watson's 40k writing. It's true that it doesn't really fit with the current approach but frankly that just makes me like it more. It's also extraordinarily reflective, which not everyone likes, but I think it's more thoughtful and characterful.

 Manchu wrote:
I love Ian Watson's 40k writing. It's true that it doesn't really fit with the current approach but frankly that just makes me like it more. It's also extraordinarily reflective, which not everyone likes, but I think it's more thoughtful and characterful.

With a lot more tentacle.

 Manchu wrote:
I love Ian Watson's 40k writing. It's true that it doesn't really fit with the current approach but frankly that just makes me like it more. It's also extraordinarily reflective, which not everyone likes, but I think it's more thoughtful and characterful.

He's a good writer, which is why the poor quality of the third book surprised me.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I love Ian Watson's 40k writing. It's true that it doesn't really fit with the current approach but frankly that just makes me like it more. It's also extraordinarily reflective, which not everyone likes, but I think it's more thoughtful and characterful.

With a lot more tentacle.

Ya, there's some messed up Clive Barker type stuff in there. But I think that's another compliment to his writing. His main foe is Slaneesh and that should be twisted. Most writers would have gone with Khorne, the most boring of the gods. Arrgh, I'm angry, I killed some people and now I'm evil and so on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zinderneuf wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I love Ian Watson's 40k writing. It's true that it doesn't really fit with the current approach but frankly that just makes me like it more. It's also extraordinarily reflective, which not everyone likes, but I think it's more thoughtful and characterful.

He's a good writer, which is why the poor quality of the third book surprised me.

Ya, it was downright boring at times. I just wanted them to get off that planet. Then I sadly realized the whole book would be about that stupid planet.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Arrgh, I'm angry, I killed some people and now I'm evil and so on.

Doesn't have quite the same ring as KILL MAIM BURN does it?

 English Assassin wrote:
I would speculate that, since the names 'Sensei' and 'Illuminati' are rather lame and clichéd, were these concepts to be revived in the game's background, they would be rebooted entirely, rather than reintroduced as the were.

I'm thinking of recent additions such as the "Perpetuals"