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Funny vic, as the first thing to pop into my head when I saw your test sculpt was the female mordian looking soldier in the rt rulebook. Great work as always.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Just saying that my feedback is meant as constructive, because I love your previous models.

Guess what makes it difficult is that your troopers are a bit heroic scaled, with big muscular legs and arms and relatively short bodies.

Putting a female torso on them looks wrong, because the feet are much too large and the legs much too thick in relation. I would also have a look at the torso length, left one has a very short lower body, right one has a very short torso below the chest.
Comparing the faces with your released male character heads, the female ones look still generic and seem not on the same quality level.

It is a difficult path to make female soldiers between the two extremes "over-sexualized" and "look like males", and there currently is no convincng option for that.

I think you have hit the nail on the head here, it is all about getting the balance right and not playing to any extreme.

The issue is to make the models look female without looking over female, now you do this at a reduced scale to blend and stand out at the same time.

Also you are dealing with a heroic scale so proportions are all of from the start, just take a look around how many humans do you see of the same sex that look the same hight and build.

I feel with a few tweaks Vic will create some stunning miniatures as always, however I do feel FEEDBACK should be constructive not demanding.

Vic has always taken into consideration customer feedback and that I am thankful.

I'm happy enough as is right now that there will be female flak armour torsos somewhere down the road (I honestly don't care about the when, seeing an early sculpt is already really promising), which is good enough for me as my current guard is made up of the male counterparts wearing just that.

Icing on the cake would be female Van Diemens Devils to go with the burly blokes, preferably one or two male and female leg sets with shorts, or female rough rider legs and arms, but that's just all wish-listing right now.

I think the leg thickness might be attracting a disprportinate amount of attention because we're seeing them without arms, weapons or accessories, so the join between uper an dlower body is more noticeable. Personally I don't feel like I'm looking at models with tree trunk legs, just models wearing baggy trousers (I get that impression because the trousers look pretty loose generally, and from the way the fabric bunches up round the top of the boots). I think if these models were holding cunningly-positioned rifles, with a few pouches and grenades on their belts, maybe a backpack, the contrast would be much harder to spot. With that in mind it could be interesting to see one of the current test sculpts with such accessories added.

 Fezman wrote:
I think the leg thickness might be attracting a disprportinate amount of attention because we're seeing them without arms, weapons or accessories, so the join between uper an dlower body is more noticeable. Personally I don't feel like I'm looking at models with tree trunk legs, just models wearing baggy trousers (I get that impression because the trousers look pretty loose generally, and from the way the fabric bunches up round the top of the boots). I think if these models were holding cunningly-positioned rifles, with a few pouches and grenades on their belts, maybe a backpack, the contrast would be much harder to spot. With that in mind it could be interesting to see one of the current test sculpts with such accessories added.

It's not so much the width but the height compared to the torso and head looks slightly of, as I said it's trying to get an equal balance of standing out as female but not over exaggerated appendages.

I am so excited for the female troopers! I agree with others who have asked for the legs to be altered slightly for a reduction in overall length/girth, but otherwise I would gladly purchase that test sculpt as it currently stands.

Regarding the helmeted heads, please, please, please have pith helmets as part of the first wave! Pretty please. With sugar on top.


And the call for weaponless arms is one I am in favor of, especially if you supplied a nice array of bare weapons in some of the more established sci-fi variants of: flame thrower, atomic gun, and energy gun. You know, for when these troopers need to assault something they would have the right weapons for the job.

Increase the bust and hips

 Theduke07 wrote:
Increase the bust and hips

Yeah, because in the darkness of the far future, we only have pin ups.

I really hope you're kidding. There's enough of that out there already, IMHO.

I really like them from the waist up! Slightly smaller feet and slightly slimmer legs should do it, imo, as you've already noted. Can't wait to see the next WIP!

First thank you for building these ladies.

I would like to see a bit thinner legs and arms. Perhaps a slight variation in height as well with the leg sets so everyone is not the same height.

Perhaps some berets?

The faces look a bit strange, I can not sculpt so they look a million times better than anything I could build.

Keep up the good work.

Female guard! I'm super stoked at the prospect of these.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I am sick to death of the catsuited, "totally liberated punk for reals", short-shorted, or booty-hugging-thong-armoured sculpts that pop up in thread after thread. I suppose I'm getting paranoid that that is what people are asking for just because they ask for it in so many other threads.

Nah, the threads for people that want figures inspired by Destiny's Child is the RH KS thread, and now apparently the MaxMini thread as well. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Vic is known for more ..sensibly dressed miniatures, so I don't think anyone in this thread is asking for that sort of thing - just properly proportioned, somewhat realistic female combat troops. I mean, it's possible to like both, so Vic going with more realistic/IG-friendly figures just gives all of us more variety.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Just saying that my feedback is meant as constructive, because I love your previous models.
Comparing the faces with your released male character heads, the female ones look still generic and seem not on the same quality level.
It is a difficult path to make female soldiers between the two extremes "over-sexualized" and "look like males", and there currently is no convincng option for that.

Well put, and I believe we all in this thread are trying to be constructive with our critisicm. You've somewhat touched on another point I forgot to make yesterday regarding helmets - With helmeted troops, the helmets (and ballistic sunglasses/goggles) take the emphasis away somewhat from the face sculpt, as it becomes less of the focus, especially from a foot or more away. It also makes them look more "soldiery". Ultimately though, female troops without feminine clothing, hair, makeup and with half of their faces hidden look much more generic, and passable for males at a glance. Look at the pic of the female IDF I posted above. Some you can tell are women very quickly but quite a few look much more androgynous in their uniforms, even with a much harder look. Body shape is the biggest difference, and if/when Vic gets that right with the torsos and legs, we'll be onto a real winner.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Javin wrote:
First thank you for building these ladies.
Perhaps some berets?

Hopefully these get finished up and sell really well. Then Vic can browse google images for the many and varied costumes of Ghaddafi's Amazonian Guard. And yeah, berets would look good. As well as Garrison/Side caps - both once Vic gets female heads down pat.

I think these kilted legs show quite well, why you can't just add a female torso to male heroic legs:

It's not only hip, size of legs and feet, but also pose.

Smashing looking torsos, more fuel for my WW1 obsession!

I killed my Raging Heroes pledge for a variety of reasons, so it will be great if Vic puts out some resin ladies. What was shown was already a great start. I'd hope for not-tanith first, but that's probably just me ; p The bits being purchaseable separately and in packs would be ideal too since i'm not sure how I'd mix them in with my Wood Elf/Cadian/Third party Tanith. Some more variety to represent the different regiments merged into the Tanith first would be good anyway.

Really need to emphasise how much better the chest sculpts are by vic. than what was shown for the troops at least by RH. Much better representation of knockers on a mini. You klnow they're there but they won't poke your eye out.

I'm thinking of doing likewise, especially because these upcoming minis will fit into my army perfectly without any hassle or BS, plus when these go on pre-order we know that they'll go out on time.

Judging from the way most kickstarters go vic's minis will probably come out first

Eh, it's not so much about who is first but who fits best in my case.

 BrookM wrote:
Eh, it's not so much about who is first but who fits best in my case.

QFT and "Amen".

Hi Folks, I really appreciate the vote of confidence. I have had some other things I had to do over the weekend, but I will get you some more progress pics on these asap.
Many thanks for the comments and feedback.
V

I love the torsos, though echo a bit about the headgear of some kind. It just adds a bit more to the sense of realism when it comes to soldiering, as headgear is almost always part of the uniform.

Also... is it sad the Tannenburger looks just like a female soldier I worked with, if all you did was change the top to the ACU? (Which is one of the reasons I love these!)

Another thing: It is easy to take a standard female head and then just change the hairdo (prominent example is Werner Klocke, or Scibor for male faces). I would prefer having different faces as well. Your male heads have different faces.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Another thing: It is easy to take a standard female head and then just change the hairdo (prominent example is Werner Klocke, or Scibor for male faces). I would prefer having different faces as well. Your male heads have different faces.

They will certainly have different faces. As I mentioned earlier; I will start with some generic hair then once I have some master casts I will do some variations with helmets, hats and gear. Exactly the same process I used for the blokes.

These are great and good to see that the feet will be smaller than those of the current models.
It would be good to have heads that could also be used as younger males. Guard armies all seem to be grizzled veteran types with no new recruits. Smoother faces would solve this.

Ugh, I like all feedback thus far except that! Please no androgynous faces

At 4mm or so high, faces are not going to pick up the details of real faces. Having some faces that are not lantern jawed and heavy set will greatly improve the variety of guardsmen.
It also allows for boy soldiers who've been recruited in their mid teens but who are otherwise man sized.
Nothing androgynous about that.
Too many female head sculpts are cartoony with elongated eyes and overly long cheekbones. There is also a tendency for female sculpts that are shouting to look more like they're about to receive something than actually shouting.

If she keeps to her quality (which is a given) then the detail in those 4mm will be downright stunning - mind you, not every female trooper needs to be drop dead gorgeous, just like not every male should look like Prince Charming in BDU, so I'm sure there'll be a few that could equally be young boyish men.

Also, a quick question to Vic, any plans to make a version of the helmeted custodian head without the gas-mask somewhere down the line? I would buy quite a few of those, especially if both sexes were represented.

Cheers.

EDIT: oops, missed a word.

Great sculpts Vic though I still hold out for some not steel legion sculpts

All I have to say:

The previous page captain lazy pants, but here you go.

:golf clap: thanks...but the image doesn't appear...which is why I missed it. The picture doesn't show up for some reason.