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 skkipper wrote:
sadly "the Greg Sparks 5" will not make it in 2013. Work takes me to japan for the first half of next year and another team member has twins due in april as his first children. Have fun!!
2014: We will be back.

Having twins in April is the reason I missed last year. Is the actually due date in April? Mine was in may and we had the girls at 36 weeks which is common for twins. Best of luck to him mine were also my first kids. It's awesome either way. This will be my first time getting to go.

the due date was mid april, it has now been moved up to end of march. so either way going to Chicago wasn't in the cards.
I get a paid trip to Nagoya for me and the Family working 40 hr weeks so it will be like a vacation. I will miss drinking jaeger with the Swedes.

I also scored some Golden Demon winning from ebay models to boost my painting scores. :(

Whoot...made it in time for the champs, gladiator, combat patrol, and a little zone mortalis...can't wait to see everyone there....safe travels

Making the return trip this year, but on the fantasy side now!

OO OO will their be any weddings going on at the same time again this year, and maybe a prom or two as those people were so nice and great conversation!

Edit: Draft rules have been moved to the first post of this topic.

40k Team Tournament rules:
Looks like the Command Tokens are gone from the Team event? Sorry to see that - they added a very interesting dynamic to a lot of the missions. I don't care for the "Twists of Fate" as a substitute - it's just a basic reroll mechanic, applicable to situations that may never come up or call for it (e.g., if you never fail a Reserves roll, or don't have anything in Reserves), meaning you may not have to make a meaningful choice as to whether to "keep" the point, or expend it.

I do like the compromise position on FW stuff - broader availability than in some years, but treating everything as "Unique" across the entire TEAM means no stacking of potential "problem" units.

The Theme rules are getting ever harsher on Xenos players. Look at the list of Imperial armies, any of which can fight together with no additional justification and score at least a 3. Now try to find ANY combination that allies with Tyranids that can score similarly. (Does Genestealer Cult even count anymore? It hasn't had anything like "general support" in written form since 3rd edition; Necrons + Blood Angels is far more thematic by modern sources.)

I like the themes we see at the tournament, but unlike painting, it's scoring participants for factors outside of their control, aside from selecting their armies solely for theme. You can work to improve your painting, or include a member in your team who paints better. You can work to improve your play. You can't do anything to improve GW's background to allow a team combination you'd like to play.

Warlord Traits ended up duplicating 80% of what we have traditionally done with Command Tokens. There were too many clarification issues if we kept Command Tokens. The Twist of Fate mechanic harkens back to the old TT mulligan system which seemed fitting in tandem with the return to the 2-day format. It is also entirely possible that certain missions will specify alternate uses for Twist of Fate.

The FW rules are identical to those from the 2012 event.

Simply put Theme in the TT has always been meant to reward 40K canon. It is part of the 40k universe and has been a focus of the TT for years. We've heard this complaint before and created 4 new Theme awards, 3 that specifically recognize Heretical, Xenos and Hybrid Teams.

 Matthias wrote:
Warlord Traits ended up duplicating 80% of what we have traditionally done with Command Tokens. There were too many clarification issues if we kept Command Tokens. The Twist of Fate mechanic harkens back to the old TT mulligan system which seemed fitting in tandem with the return to the 2-day format. It is also entirely possible that certain missions will specify alternate uses for Twist of Fate.

I still think last year's use of Command tokens in Team Cleanse was the best use ever, and the best adaptation to the traditional strategy for that mission. While Warlord traits does offer the possibility of a bonus scoring unit, it's hardly certain.

Speaking for myself, the Command Counters were flat out better than the mulligans. Comes back to making a significant decision pre-battle, plus the ongoing effects on the table top. A reroll is something that simply is; you might never find yourself in one of the limited situations that allow for it, and if you do, you might never roll poorly enough to require it.

The FW rules are identical to those from the 2012 event.

I know; that wasn't directed so much at you as a general comment. This is a good way to handle FW units.

Simply put Theme in the TT has always been meant to reward 40K canon. It is part of the 40k universe and has been a focus of the TT for years. We've heard this complaint before and created 4 new Theme awards, 3 that specifically recognize Heretical, Xenos and Hybrid Teams.

Of course you've heard it before; I bring it up every year. That said, this bracketing system looks harsher than previous scoring systems. A straight 0, in a 60 point category that counts towards your Overall standing, just for bringing Tyranids + anything? Ouch!

I do appreciate the additional detail in the Theme scoring section over previous years; last year in particular still rankles, as we made a legitimate effort towards theme, and scored much lower than if we'd just grabbed 4 of the same army...or joined the Grey Knight-fest. But surely you can see that the straight point allocations in the brackets are advantageous for Imperial armies? With no effort at all, an Imperial team can score 30 with any combination of 8 'dexes, while our afore-mentioned Tyranid + anything team has to put forth significant effort to make it to 10.

Doesn't affect my team this year; our theme has been set for a few months. But I keep gnawing at it, trying to find a method that acknowledges effort at every level, rather than just the highest-possible bracket.

Hi

Overall, I like the draft Team Tournament Rules. The only thing that strikes me as REALLY powerful is using "twists of fate" for reserve re-rolls - increasing that key unit/flyers likelihood of arriving on turn two to 89% without a points investment seems like a little bit much.

I figure that if I read a tournament mechanic and it makes me completely re-think my approach, it may be too good.

Cheers,
Nate Stevens, Captain
Sons of Shatner

 carlosthecraven wrote:
Hi

Overall, I like the draft Team Tournament Rules. The only thing that strikes me as REALLY powerful is using "twists of fate" for reserve re-rolls - increasing that key unit/flyers likelihood of arriving on turn two to 89% without a points investment seems like a little bit much.

I figure that if I read a tournament mechanic and it makes me completely re-think my approach, it may be too good.

Cheers,
Nate Stevens, Captain
Sons of Shatner

Nate,

You are giving up a battle point every time you choose to use a twist of fate regardless of the outcome. That could mean as many as 20 total points missing at the end of the tournament. Reviewing the tight cuts for awards, this could definitely have an impact on standings. At the end of the day it is up to the players to make informed choices about whether or not they believe the effect justifies the cost, opinions and outcomes will vary and that is exactly what we are expecting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jathkin,

In as brief a post as I can justify, there is no reason that fielding Tyranids and another army costs you all your theme points. Examples might include a battle for Macragge team with 2 Ultramarine players and two Tyranid players, a Anphelion Project force with Xenos inquisitor forces and Tyranids is another, and there have been several Genestealer cult armies that have scored well over the years.

The team's theme is judged before the battles begin, by judges, not your opponents. We understand that your battle combinations may not make total sense to your opponents outside the context of your display base and that's OK. We specifically adjusted allies to the least harsh interpretation to account for this.

We will be releasing a development blog article on these topics shortly so please stay tuned.

Regards,

Chris

Rhysk wrote:
Jathkin,

In as brief a post as I can justify, there is no reason that fielding Tyranids and another army costs you all your theme points. Examples might include a battle for Macragge team with 2 Ultramarine players and two Tyranid players, a Anphelion Project force with Xenos inquisitor forces and Tyranids is another, and there have been several Genestealer cult armies that have scored well over the years.

The team's theme is judged before the battles begin, by judges, not your opponents. We understand that your battle combinations may not make total sense to your opponents outside the context of your display base and that's OK. We specifically adjusted allies to the least harsh interpretation to account for this.

We will be releasing a development blog article on these topics shortly so please stay tuned.

Regards,

Chris

Hi Chris,

The theme rules, as written, make NO allowance for an opposition theme.

One of the most frustrating things about the theme rules is knowing what the judges are thinking in terms of what is valid background, and how much background is necessary to be well-supported at the various tiers. So again - last year, Blood Angels + Necrons, which was specifically included in 2 separate codexes, scored far poorer in theme than just reading the theme scoring rules would seem to have explained. Meanwhile, themes derived from a single battle mentioned in a single BL book score pretty well on theme.

What about Genestealer Cults? They haven't had any rules or fluff support for 3 full editions of the game (IIRC). What about fluff that been effectively ret-conned? Do Chaos sacred numbers have any meaning anymore, given that they haven't existed in the past 2 codexes (3, if you count Daemons)? What about the discord between certain chaos gods, which has similarly gone unmentioned? Would Sisters of Battle team up with Grey Knights?

I understand the intent, and I do understand the problem, but you're trying to apply easily quantifiable brackets to a huge, often contradictory, collection of fiction spanning 30 years now. And in focusing on the nebulous "what is supported by the 40k background," you're narrowing the field for really interesting themes (such as an opposition theme).

We'll have to discuss more over beer.

Hi Chris

I am not demanding a change, just tossing my two cents in on a "draft."

The twist of fate I am concerned with isn't likely to cost 20 points since you are going to may the roll 13 times out of 20 without it. The 7 points it will on average to push the rate of success to 18/20 is 7 points well spent if it is difference between victory and defeat even once (as you said, informed decision-making makes this well worth it).

Cheers,
Nate

Basic re-rolls will not be the only use for Twist of Fate. Certain missions may present alternate uses for them (like Command Tokens of old). There will we far more attractive things in play than Reserve re-rolls for some missions and the choice won't be so cut and dry. The Twist of Fate portion will be amended to be clearer in these regards.

Reading through the TT rules, I saw this:

Victory Points gained through the Legendary Fighter Warlord Trait are added to your Coalition’s total for that game as normal,
however the maximum number of Victory Points a Coalition may earn per game is 30.

But on the scoring chart, it states that the overall total points for primary objectives is 250. Divided by 5 rounds = 50. Thats not even counting the secondary objectives.

Is this a misprint or am I not understanding scoring?

Thanks,

Twitch


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Figured it out. The total is for both teams. Got it. Im slow tonight.....

Thanks,

Twitch

Is anyone participating in the Malifaux Cake Tournament?

Additional rules for various events have been released. They are now all conveniently located in the first post of this topic. The final set of draft rules should be released by the end of next week.

The AdeptiCon 2013 Allowable IA/Apoc Units document is almost complete as well. We were waiting on the release of Imperial Armour Vol. 1 Second Edition.

Hi

A question regarding pairing for the Team Touranment. When it was a four round event, it was rotate partners, then choose for the final round.

In the 5 round format, what can we expect, or is it a surprise?

Our speculation is - rotate for rounds 1-3, choose in 4 & 5 but you must have a different partner...

Cheers,
Nate

Nate - your speculation is more than likely correct. That is how we have it now and really the only way it works without serious book keeping. I think it also thematically works well.

I am confirmed going 2013 for my first time to Adepticon. Will eventually buy in for Mantic's Clash of Kings. Now to get painting!

 Matthias wrote:
Nate - your speculation is more than likely correct. That is how we have it now and really the only way it works without serious book keeping. I think it also thematically works well.

Our play group has discussed this as well, and thought that having the 5th round let your opponent choose your team's pairing and vice versa would be very entertaining, and add a taste of strategy.

Just something to consider, if you hadn't already thought about it.

My concern is around combat patrol. I have posted and Matt has answered from Adepticon (Thank you!).

You will notice fortifications are not allowed. My nephew is taking Tau that has no flyers (only army he really has).

At 400 points do people see the flyers getting overpowered? I know some flyers cannot be included but the Necron, Ork, and Marine can bring some just from the top of my head.

We are going to be doing some play testing first of January around how he will deal with flyers, but I showed him an example and it truly scared him on the lethality and invulnerability (do to snap fire) of the flyers at 400 points.

Our play group has discussed this as well, and thought that having the 5th round let your opponent choose your team's pairing and vice versa would be very entertaining, and add a taste of strategy. Just something to consider, if you hadn't already thought about it.

That is on the table as well ... : )

I think the choosing your opponents thing would add a level of complexity and potential flash points after a long weekend of gaming. Just having people pick their teams would be easier and less cumbersome.

Hi

I have no issue with our opponent's picking round 5, and find it very intriguing personally.

BUT I would want that to be a transparent mechanic going into the event,

Cheers,
Nate

The TT rules document will be amended shortly to account for language standardization with the other 40K events, proper Theme examples and the release of the IA Allowable Units list. We'll make sure to include the pairings format too.

I don't know that opponents choice would be round 5, either. Not sure that mechanic works for the final round.

A number of options on the table and being discussed.

- Hank

Hi

Details, details - its use at whatever time is intreguing. Being transparent is the key.

Thank you both for your quick replies to this question (and any other nattering questions/comments I have brought up or will bring up).

Cheers,
Nate

I'm thankful for how quick you guys reply. My main concern is that it's a lot of work to write it up clearly so that 400+ people (or 200+ since really only 1 person per pair needs to understand) can easily understand and assimilate it.

And for thel ast round it could cause some issues, round 1 might be fun. But either way I'm with Carlos that transparency and ease of understanding are key. I'm already excited for Adepticon, and it's still 5 months away!

Thanks for the UPDATES Matthias!

I’m SO looking forward to this year. I’m really happy you guys added a day. If I make it into the finals again I can actually get some sleep now. Those 5:30am starts were killing me, being a west coast gamer, and I’m sure it wasn’t fun running them that early either.
It’s going to be nice to have that extra time to hang out and visit with some of you guys I only get to see in person once a year.

My Events so far:
• Championship
• Gladiator
• Boarding Action

I have no idea at this time what Armies I will be playing. If I don’t make it into the finals I will most likely try to have my NEW Death Korps of Krieg Army ready for the Gladiator. SO MUCH TO DO! Why do I have to like horde Armies so much?

As of right now, I’m not on a Team for the Team Event. I figured I would chill and enjoy the show for a couple days and go downtown one night maybe. If anyone wants to hang out and maybe even get a casual game in during that time PM me.

ADEPTICON!!!!!!