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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

As far as 40k goes, the only thing I did not like was the objective placement after you knew who was on what table side.

This caused 3 problems:
#1. If you had an odd number of objectives one side had a huge advantage.
#2. To make gaining/lossing an objective harder, objectives were all placed at the back of the board near the table edge.
#3. With an even number of objectives games were more prone to ties because they were burried deep in the deployment zones.

Player placed terrian is fine but for tournaments I think you should have the terrian and objectives placed before rolling for table sides. This ensures a more balanced terrain and objective placement.

The problem comes with fortifications and maybe what you do is just replace a piece of terrain or move the terrain slightly to make room for them.

Maybe this is why necrons did so well is that they can easily move troops safetly across the board.


 
   
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 Janthkin wrote:

  • 40k Warzone: Really neat event, and I'm glad I wandered into it. For those who aren't familiar, Warzone takes the FW Zone Mortalis concept and expands on it. Not only do you need to be able to do battle in the confines of a Space Hulk or Necron Tombship, but your same army will also do battle on a wide-open dusty desert, in a burning cityscape, and in the trenches of a muddy battlefield. You have a small sideboard available (250 pts for your 1k army), but versatility was key. Everyone who played seemed to enjoy the event immensely. Some minor hiccups, not unexpected in a first-year event: the alloted time wasn't quite right, given the complexities of rules added by each board & each mission; and some of the special rules weren't well balanced in certain scenarios. Those are correctable, and I hope to make use of this ruleset for some local events in the near future, too.


  • I'm really glad you enjoyed yourself. This was honestly the most rewarding event I've ever run. I ran a lot of events in the 90's and early 2000's in Buffalo, NY, but this one I put everything I could into it, and I felt really good about the end result of my efforts and how everyone reacted overall.

    This morning I collected all of the information from the surveys and I'm putting together a blog post and a couple articles about the event. I'm excited to do it again next year and to tweak the areas that people thought needed tweaking. I might even try to run it a couple more times this year at various places just to collect more information and maintain the momentum to finish some of the tables left unfinished.

    Since I'm writing more later I'll keep it short for now, but I will say that I had figured out during play testing that the rounds were too short, but I had already locked myself into a time schedule so I just had to do the best I could with the situation. Next year it will definitely be run with 2 hour game times instead of 1.5.

    Thanks again for participating!

    Also, if anyone that played in the 40K Warzone Tournament snapped any pics, I'd love to see/use them in my blog posts/articles. I'm an idiot and didn't document any of it visually. :(
       
    Made in us
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    Manhatten, KS

     Blackmoor wrote:
    As far as 40k goes, the only thing I did not like was the objective placement after you knew who was on what table side.

    This caused 3 problems:
    #1. If you had an odd number of objectives one side had a huge advantage.
    #2. To make gaining/lossing an objective harder, objectives were all placed at the back of the board near the table edge.
    #3. With an even number of objectives games were more prone to ties because they were burried deep in the deployment zones.

    Player placed terrian is fine but for tournaments I think you should have the terrian and objectives placed before rolling for table sides. This ensures a more balanced terrain and objective placement.

    The problem comes with fortifications and maybe what you do is just replace a piece of terrain or move the terrain slightly to make room for them.

    Maybe this is why necrons did so well is that they can easily move troops safetly across the board.


    That isn't just adepticon that is 6th edition. In 6th edition you roll for table sides and then place objectives. That is a primary reason why necrons are so good in this edition because you can keep your troops safe for the whole game them drop them off up to 42" away from your current location.

    TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
    4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)

    TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
    Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
    Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
    Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
    Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)

    TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings 
       
    Made in us
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    New York

     Tomb King wrote:
    That isn't just adepticon that is 6th edition. In 6th edition you roll for table sides and then place objectives. That is a primary reason why necrons are so good in this edition because you can keep your troops safe for the whole game them drop them off up to 42" away from your current location.


    Most tournaments organizers recognize how poorly designed the book missions are and adjust them accordingly for competitive play.
       
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    Fixture of Dakka






    Chicago

     Blackmoor wrote:

    Player placed terrian is fine but for tournaments I think you should have the terrian and objectives placed before rolling for table sides. This ensures a more balanced terrain and objective placement.



    I found the terrain placement rules to be definitely skewed, at least in my armies favour. Granted, I was playing in the Friendly, so brought a list that I doubt most would play in a more competitive environment (Nurgle Daemons), but with six large pieces of terrain, mostly area, that had to be only 4" apart, and only majority on your half, I was able to put my pieces in the middle of the table, forcing my opponent to put his pieces on his half, leaving my half of the table nearly devoid of terrain and his half very cluttered. Then I'd just play the whole game on my opponent's side of the table, and with my Shrouded rules, I was consistently getting 3+ and 2+ cover saves. My opponent was unable to counter my placing my pieces of terrain in the center (45% in his half) by putting his on my side. I hadn't even considered this prior to the event, but it just became very obvious during my first set-up period.


       
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    San Jose, CA

     Redbeard wrote:
    My opponent was unable to counter my placing my pieces of terrain in the center (45% in his half) by putting his on my side.
    Why not? Two scenarios:
    1) You get to place the first piece, and place it on the center line, likely near the dead middle (as going too far to one side or the other would reduce your ability to put your other pieces there). Your opponent should put his first piece on the center line as well, far enough from yours to prevent you from placing another piece on that side of the board. End result: he'll end up with 2 pieces deep in his zone (back corners, if he's concerned), and 3 pieces that overhang the middle of the board.
    2) He places the first piece, and should place it as far forward as possible, but weighted to one side or the other (about 12-14" off the board edge should do it, for most of the terrain pieces I saw). Should prevent you from placing more than 1 piece of yours on the middle line at all, as he'll be placing 3rd.

    Sounds like you "won" the strategy side of terrain placement. Well done!

    That said, a ton of people were playing normal hills as area terrain, which boggles the mind.

    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
       
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    MI

    I HATED when people refused to play forests as forests in 5th ed., and I HATE when people refuse to play hills as hills in 6th. Luckily, my opponents were all very good people and knew what a hill was. That made me happy.

    The odd obj. #'s was bogus. However, as I was playing Crons, a few times against aggressive armies I actually placed my objective in their half. Worked quite well. Mobility is key in 6th and Crons are so very good at it. Nerfing every transport except Scythes/Vendettas has been rough for a lot of armies.

    //11thCompanyGT '13, 40k Singles :: [5-2], Bracket Champion ||
    //MichiganGT '13, 40k Singles :: [5-1], 4th Place, Best Xenos ||
    //Adepticon '13, 40k Finals :: [6-2], 10th Place ||
    //BAO '13, 40k Singles :: [5-2], 18th Place ||

    [hippos eat people for fun and games] 
       
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    FWIW the 6th Edition terrain rules allow for terrain w/ bases, and w/out bases, and often bases can refer to a piece that is area terrain AND something else, like ruins, hillcrests/ridgelines, etc. Clarifying this with your opponent in one or the other direction, or clarifying it as a tournament organizer, is a pretty normal way of doing things.

    To say that a hill on a base is NEVER anything but a hillcrest/ridgeline is actually to deny the rules of 6th Edition. So try not to hate too much.

    Frankly haterade is a good thing to drop in general ... most everyone I ran into was having an awesome time at the awesome weekend that is AdeptiCon, and that includes me! Thanks to all my opponents, buddies, friends, new friends, etc., that I ran into, met, rolled dice against, etc. Still one of if not the best hobby event in the nation.
       
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    Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

     Janthkin wrote:
     Redbeard wrote:
    My opponent was unable to counter my placing my pieces of terrain in the center (45% in his half) by putting his on my side.
    Why not? Two scenarios:
    1) You get to place the first piece, and place it on the center line, likely near the dead middle (as going too far to one side or the other would reduce your ability to put your other pieces there). Your opponent should put his first piece on the center line as well, far enough from yours to prevent you from placing another piece on that side of the board. End result: he'll end up with 2 pieces deep in his zone (back corners, if he's concerned), and 3 pieces that overhang the middle of the board.
    2) He places the first piece, and should place it as far forward as possible, but weighted to one side or the other (about 12-14" off the board edge should do it, for most of the terrain pieces I saw). Should prevent you from placing more than 1 piece of yours on the middle line at all, as he'll be placing 3rd.

    Sounds like you "won" the strategy side of terrain placement. Well done!

    That said, a ton of people were playing normal hills as area terrain, which boggles the mind.


    What if he has a fortification?

    As for above:
    Option #1) There are 3 pieces on the centerline and 2 in the back. Redbeard had board control because he is able to advance with plenty of cover.
    Option #2) Most players want to obscure their objectives in the back of the board with LOS blocking terrain. Because you now have to counter the terrain push with counter terrain pushes, your objectives will now be exposed because by the time you place the back pieces of terrain the LOS blockers are gone and you have nowhere to hide.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/24 21:56:09



     
       
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    San Jose, CA

     Blackmoor wrote:
     Janthkin wrote:
     Redbeard wrote:
    My opponent was unable to counter my placing my pieces of terrain in the center (45% in his half) by putting his on my side.
    Why not? Two scenarios:
    1) You get to place the first piece, and place it on the center line, likely near the dead middle (as going too far to one side or the other would reduce your ability to put your other pieces there). Your opponent should put his first piece on the center line as well, far enough from yours to prevent you from placing another piece on that side of the board. End result: he'll end up with 2 pieces deep in his zone (back corners, if he's concerned), and 3 pieces that overhang the middle of the board.
    2) He places the first piece, and should place it as far forward as possible, but weighted to one side or the other (about 12-14" off the board edge should do it, for most of the terrain pieces I saw). Should prevent you from placing more than 1 piece of yours on the middle line at all, as he'll be placing 3rd.

    Sounds like you "won" the strategy side of terrain placement. Well done!

    That said, a ton of people were playing normal hills as area terrain, which boggles the mind.


    What if he has a fortification?

    As for above:
    Option #1) There are 3 pieces on the centerline and 2 in the back. Redbeard had board control because he is able to advance with plenty of cover.
    Option #2) Most players want to obscure their objectives in the back of the board with LOS blocking terrain. Because you now have to counter the terrain push with counter terrain pushes, your objectives will now be exposed because by the time you place the back pieces of terrain the LOS blockers are gone and you have nowhere to hide.
    Fortifications are great. If you have one, and you don't want your opponent to drop huge terrain on the center line, you drop your fortification there instead. One Aegis means no LoS blocking terrain within 4" of the center for a significant distance.

    #1 sounds like "working as intended." 6e gives a major advantage to mobile armies, and calls for 1-3 "pieces" of terrain in every 2'x2' segment of the board (averages to about 12 pieces/table). I'm assuming that time concerns mandated the 6 large piece approach used at Adepticon, but it seemed a very reasonable compromise position. But even with the fairly large pieces used at Adepticon, you could still have significant open space on one side of the table under the described scenario, if you thought about it in time.

    #2 isn't the described problem. Redbeard's army is advancing without much shooting; his opponent shouldn't care about having LoS blocking terrain to conceal his objectives, as there isn't much to conceal them from. (Those objectives may be better off in the open, anyway.)

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/24 22:09:54


    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
       
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    MI

    To be real, I wasn't actually hating.. I'm sorry, I didn't realize a man wasn't allowed to express his pet peeves. I had a great weekend, obviously, I got to spend it in Chicago playing with toy soldiers and making new friends. Yeah, I played that little 1/2 rim as area terrain as per the rules.

    My point is that the rulebook does an exceptional job of describing nearly every terrain possibility. There was never a good reason to play forests as area terrain in fifth. Same concept applies to hills in 6th.

    //11thCompanyGT '13, 40k Singles :: [5-2], Bracket Champion ||
    //MichiganGT '13, 40k Singles :: [5-1], 4th Place, Best Xenos ||
    //Adepticon '13, 40k Finals :: [6-2], 10th Place ||
    //BAO '13, 40k Singles :: [5-2], 18th Place ||

    [hippos eat people for fun and games] 
       
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    Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

    Again, I did not have much of an issue with the terrain placement, just the order of objective placement,

    Yes, I know that it is that way for 6th edition missions, I just do not think they work well with tournament play.



     
       
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    Manhatten, KS

     Blackmoor wrote:
    Again, I did not have much of an issue with the terrain placement, just the order of objective placement,

    Yes, I know that it is that way for 6th edition missions, I just do not think they work well with tournament play.



    QFT! I was just taking a moment to vent my frustration with 6th edition as a whole. Not directed at you. The book missions as a whole are also kind of screwy for tournament play.

    TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
    4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)

    TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
    Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
    Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
    Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
    Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)

    TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings 
       
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    indianapolis. in

     Tomb King wrote:
     Blackmoor wrote:
    Again, I did not have much of an issue with the terrain placement, just the order of objective placement,

    Yes, I know that it is that way for 6th edition missions, I just do not think they work well with tournament play.



    QFT! I was just taking a moment to vent my frustration with 6th edition as a whole. Not directed at you. The book missions as a whole are also kind of screwy for tournament play.


    I actually think it is better for tournament play. It adds to the strategy for me. Ok if I get first roll I will take that piece and that piece and place it there... etc. It hurts slow armies like paladins...
       
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    I'm pretty happy with most of them. The uneven objective thing definitely bothered me a lot at first, but it certainly rewards mobility and aggression. If you have a significant chance that your opponent will have one more objective than you to start, and placed 6" from his back edge, you had better be able to go get those objectives. Scouring, especially with Hammer & Anvil deployment, is (IMO) the biggest issue. I know several people who were knocked out by happening to get that with 5pts of objectives in their half while their opponent had 10. Sean Nayden went out of the finals with that draw, IIRC. The mission's not quite as rough if you're using one of the other two deployments.

    I liked the terrain placement; it ensured there would be a couple of pieces near center if you wanted them, and/or both players would have some hiding spots if desired. I was usually able to ensure at least one good killing field on one side or the other if I wanted one, though.

    I did play the hills as open; if there was a bigger section of base, with a mobile element, on one part of them we usually played that specific section as area, but the hill as open. As far as I can tell those hills with the little lip on around the border were just built on hardboard for stability and durability, and in the one game when an opponent really insisted that he thought it made them area, Chris (the head judge) confirmed it wasn't the intent for them to be.


    Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
    More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
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    Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

    Some missions combined with Hammer and Anvil deployment are an issue. Emperor's Will and getting bad Scouring numbers come to mind.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/25 01:28:59



     
       
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    This was my first Adepticon and I had a blast! Didn't sign up for anything ahead of time, just drank it all in, and it was a good time. Played two Combat Patrols, and I never thought a 400 point game would be fun, but I had a blast. With that, I love the idea of having to deepstrike in objectives! Fun twist!


     
       
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    Manhatten, KS

     Homeskillet wrote:
    This was my first Adepticon and I had a blast! Didn't sign up for anything ahead of time, just drank it all in, and it was a good time. Played two Combat Patrols, and I never thought a 400 point game would be fun, but I had a blast. With that, I love the idea of having to deepstrike in objectives! Fun twist!


    Did that once... not fun when you mishap and opponent places..

    TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
    4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)

    TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
    Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
    Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
    Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
    Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)

    TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings 
       
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    The question is, what happens to all the scenery and terrain after the event? I can't fathom packing up 300 tables worth of scenery and storing it some where.

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    Leerstetten, Germany

     Homeskillet wrote:
    This was my first Adepticon and I had a blast! Didn't sign up for anything ahead of time, just drank it all in, and it was a good time. Played two Combat Patrols, and I never thought a 400 point game would be fun, but I had a blast. With that, I love the idea of having to deepstrike in objectives! Fun twist!


    One of my Combat Patrol games last year was a good example that you can get WAAC lists and players at fun events as well. I think "Combat Patrol" might be the one least competitive 40K events that I can imagine and it really pushes fluff and theme over WAAC.

    I played a fun Space Marine Scout list, somebody else had Gaunts Ghosts, lots of nicely themed lists. And in my second game I ended up facing a Paladin list. And maybe it's just me but facing that Grey Knight Paladin list at a fun fluff event just felt like cheese.

    Combat Patrol is fun though, if I ever start playing 6th Edition I might see about throwing together a Combat Patrol event at my FLGS.
       
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    Maryland

    I had a blast and in general thought the missions worked pretty well. My one critique is the handling of Scouring in combination with emperors will.


    The scouring is supposed to be a mission where you get an extra bonus for having fast attacks, instead because of them relinquishing twice the victory points versus other units it felt more like a penalty than a benefit. This also was the case with heavy supports in big guns. I don't mind missions that make it advantageous to target other units (I really liked the one where non scoring units were worth more, I felt like that was an interesting internal debate for myself whether to go for my opponents troops or wrack up the extra points).

    Going a step further, I think if swarm / fliers which are fast attacks don't gain the benefit of scoring in scouring missions, then they definitely shouldn't be giving up extra victory points.

    I also wasn't crazy about the random value objectives.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/25 05:14:35


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    Peoria, IL

    Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
    The question is, what happens to all the scenery and terrain after the event? I can't fathom packing up 300 tables worth of scenery and storing it some where.


    Neither can I. But some how we do it. It all goes in a couple of trailers and gets stored.
       
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    Hmm, the organisers must make a profit then, otherwise it's probably too much of a pain?

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    None of us get into doing it for the profit, but to bring something awesome to fellow hobbyists. Whether Hank makes a profit by now or not, he deals with the pain to do something awesome for us.
       
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    Perrysburg, OH

    The answer is "too much of a pain". The only real rewards are the great friends you meet / get to work with and the knowledge that you have done something really frickin' cool for the community. Everyone comes back to their day job on the Monday or Tuesday following AdeptiCon.

    AdeptiCon "For Gamers, By Gamers"

    Edit: Looks like Mike and I were typing up the same thing at the same time.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/25 13:17:48


    - Greg



     
       
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    Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
    Hmm, the organisers must make a profit then, otherwise it's probably too much of a pain?



    lol

    TO,s certainly dont run these events to make money.If you were to calculate the amount of man hrs that are needed to accomplish a tournament at the GT + level you would realize it would be no better than a slaves wage.

    They do it because they love running these events. In most cases they lose money or break even. Any time there is a profit it usually is put back into there budgets for the next event they host.

    Think of it as planning for a wedding.

     
       
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    Thousands of hours of work go into these things. Even if they manage to clear a little "profit" on it, if you figure in the time they work on it, any profit is at a rate of pennies per hour of work. It's a labor of love, straight up. And I have no doubt that any such profit is rolled over into terrain repairs, storage, swag for next year's event, etc. You don't run something like this to make money.

    Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
    More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
    DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
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    Manhatten, KS

     Mannahnin wrote:
    Thousands of hours of work go into these things. Even if they manage to clear a little "profit" on it, if you figure in the time they work on it, any profit is at a rate of pennies per hour of work. It's a labor of love, straight up. And I have no doubt that any such profit is rolled over into terrain repairs, storage, swag for next year's event, etc. You don't run something like this to make money.


    And it would of worked... if it weren't for those meddling hobbyist.

    TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
    4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)

    TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
    Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
    Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
    Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
    Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)

    TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings 
       
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    Shadeglass Maze

    Was there an issue with the final table of the main fantasy tournament? I had read that and just wanted to ask if anyone could shed light on it (sans drama, preferably).

    I was just a bit disappointed with the fantasy event I attended at last year's AdeptiCon. It seems like an entirely different crew / group runs the fantasy side of things, and it's not quite to the level of the 40k side. Besides the running of it, which wasn't as organized and had a few administrative issues, the terrain was just nowhere near the quality of the 40k terrain. Again this is referring to last year, so maybe that side of the event stepped up it's game now! I would love to hear from anyone who played in the fantasy events what they thought of them this year.

    I am hoping to attend both AdeptiCon and the Brawler Bash next year, but both are about the same time. For anything other than fantasy it'd obviously be AdeptiCon hands down... but I'd like to see the fantasy side of AdeptiCon get some love.

    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/04/26 03:28:27


     
       
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    @Ritides

    One of the things I am most proud of this year is the strides the AdeptiCon WFB staff made this year.

    The incident was at the final table between two opponents who just had a very ugly game with each other.

    But further to your point. The 40K events are the level and quality they are because we have a large group of 40+ individuals involved in making the 40K events at AdeptiCon happen.

    For whatever reason, it has not been as easy to recruit and develop staff resources on the Warhammer Fantasy side of the event. It has been that way for a long time, this is not a new development. We value highly the folks we have, however a lot of the things folks want take someone to do them and I can tell you that our staff is doing the absolute best with the resources they have. If we had even a modest uptick in staff resources on the WFB side .. it would be amazing what could be accomplished!

    Bad dice podcast has a nice wrap up of the Fantasy events :

    http://baddice.co.uk/daily232/

    and some good feedback here:

    http://baddice.co.uk/daily234/

    Thanks to the guys at Bad Dice not only for making it over to AdeptiCon but for some great coverage and feedback!


    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/26 14:53:09


     
       
     
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