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I'm not sure if this belongs to this forum or modelling one, but since it deals with fluff in the first place, I'll post it here.


(c)DRommel and SaittaMicus, please do not use without permission.

I must admit, my interest in Khorne and Chaos itself was sparked by the tale and images of Valkia the Bloody, as I was pretty much fascinated by the idea of an attractive, strong woman being affiliated with a god of battle that is usually associated only with generic ugly demons, rather than going the overused way "sexy babes belong to Slaanesh".
I did start my Chaos army with a Valkia-inspired corrupt Sister of Battle, as I also like the idea that Sisters, being quite bloodthirsty and warlike in their service to the Emperor, are quite likely to be tempted by the promise of victorious carnage rather than sexual pleasure (which is often attributed to them by those who make Chaos Sisters, deicating them to Slaanesh - which is, too, a bit overused and boring if you ask me). It is, too, inspired by Warhammer Fantasy where (in Liber Chaotica) it is said that many Khorne champions and lords are former Imperial and Bretonnian knights who simply went too far in pursuit of glorious combat.
I also made a few more Khorne Sisters, less demonic in appearance, but they still remain at WIP stages as I'm unsure what to field them as. Rather, I did start a full scale CSM/Renegade army. You can check all the Sister and CSM pics here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/383687.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/460924.page

But enough of preludes. The question is - what do you think of female demons of Khorne? I don't like current Bloodletter models, in my opinion they lack the brutality that is Khorne's trademark (and which is reflected in Juggernauts, for example). An idea I had was using plastic conversions of Beastigors (who are very much like old metal Bloodletters), but that would mix them up with beastmen too much (and I plan to have allied IG based off beastmen models, too).

But then again, why not imagine Khorne has more babes that it seems? And lithe, sleek and sexy demonesses are better than lithe, sleek and sexy demons.

There are a few examples of official art depicting female demons of Khorne. They are not ugly at all, mind you.





There's also a lot of fan art depicting 'khornettes' (of various decency), though I've yet to see any good conversions.

Modelling questions below!

I have a few options for female Bloodletters.

First of all, I was thinking of using Raging Heroes' superb Witch Elf/Daemonette lookalike models. Yes, they are way too slaaneshi at the first glance, but look at that segmented armor and wild hair. That's exactly Valkia's style. Of course, they'll need conversions - adding horns and changing arms to wield more khornate styled weapons. But I have enough bitz. And the idea of red-skinned naked demonic 'valkyries' accompanying norse-styled CSM is tempting, to say the least.





Next idea is using Warmachine Cryx Blood Witches/Raiders. They won't even need much conversions - they're armored, horned, hoofed, wielding wicked weapons and have quite a Norse feel too, though less of those pinup valkyries. Giving them a red/black/brass paintjob would make them looks quite khornate. Still, they have little variety of poses and looks, and those skirts are all but khorny.




And the last option is using plastic daemonettes for some kitbashing. While it's the seemingly easiest and cheapest one, it will require a lot of work and bits to make everything look right, and good scupting skills. Not sure I am up for taking this route.

What do you think of all that? Always accepting more ideas on making Khorne's host more visually appealing while not going the way of "having a slaanesh army painted red".
Is it worth the effort or would be too un-fluffy?
And if you have more links to suitable models, official confirmations of Khorne demonesses existing, or good fluff on that, please share them!

Technically, Valkiya (I think that's her name) is a Daemon Princess, IE, was once mortal and ascended to Daemonhood. I've always been under the impression that Daemons were devoid of gender, so technically,from a fluff standpoint, Khornettes make no sense.

With that said, I also see no reason not to do this. One of the best things about 40K is definitely creative conversion. If you can execute it well, then more power to you. I think only the stodgiest of neckbeards would have a problem with it, and who cares what they think?

As for the best models to use, well, I don't really know. I'm not much of a converter, so I probably don't have the best eye for that. I think any of the models above could work quite well as the basis for a converted Bloodletter...ette.

While Daemons are technically genderless, since they don't procreate, there's nothing stopping their Patron Power from molding them into whatever shape it desires. Slaanesh likes feminine Daemonettes, so they have one breast and crab-claws. Khorne likes his Bloodletters all spikey and red-skinned and ripped with corded muscle, so there they are. Tzeentch likes his daemons just plain weird, so they are. And Nurgle? Nurgle's not real creative when it comes to his daemons, but for all their simplicity, they do reflect his portfolio quite well.

If you wanna do female Bloodletters, Bloodthirsters, Ladies of Change, Daemon(ettes) or whatever, go right ahead. There's nothing saying a given daemon-type has to match some sort of preconceived notion. This is Chaos we're talking about.

When it comes to mortal followers, anything goes. With the Gifts of Chaos, a given Champion or Aspiring Champion may no longer be the gender they were born as, either having switched at some point or become some sort of in-between mutant... or something entirely unclassifiable.

Khorne is a pretty practical guy. All his daemon's need is the physical capacity to murder. Not sure how boobs enters that equation. So, sure, model your army however you please but keep in mind that it has more to do with your preferences than anything from the fluff.

They could serve as a distraction for their enemies, in order to leave them open to a killing blow.... lol



Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's practial.... right?

You know, I can't believe I didn't already make a "Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows" joke.

Manchu wrote:You know, I can't believe I didn't already make a "Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows" joke.

That's pretty awful Manchu ...

You know, the way people have been talking about the Warp around here lately, I'm surprised that hasn't come up yet as a serious "theory." I chalk it up to most of us being guys.

Its funny, someone once tried to tell me that all chaos deamons had to be a certain colour, red for khorne etc.
Telling me that CHAOS had to be uniform is kina funny

Formosa wrote:Its funny, someone once tried to tell me that all chaos deamons had to be a certain colour, red for khorne etc.
Telling me that CHAOS had to be uniform is kina funny

But there is the fact that fluff wise each god has their own personal preference based on what they represent. For Khorne it makes little sence for him to create a new type of mid level deamon, due to the fact that his current template works so well. Feminising khorne deamons would not help them kill more, so khorne just would not bother.

I think that the Privateer Press witches would make much better Khornettes than the Raging Heroes sculpts, which really suffer (for this purpose) from being obviously Witch Elves and Slaanesh Daemonettes. I think the Raging Heroes demonettes would work, mind you, but I think the PP sculpts would be much better. If you gave them red skin, black clothing, and brass 'accessories', then I think they would be quite fitting. They've got the massive horns to hint at Khornate origins, and aren't as sexualized as the other sculpts.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Formosa wrote:Its funny, someone once tried to tell me that all chaos deamons had to be a certain colour, red for khorne etc.
Telling me that CHAOS had to be uniform is kina funny

But there is the fact that fluff wise each god has their own personal preference based on what they represent. For Khorne it makes little sence for him to create a new type of mid level deamon, due to the fact that his current template works so well. Feminising khorne deamons would not help them kill more, so khorne just would not bother.

Well it might help a little. Humans are just behind Orks when it comes to the most numerous species in the galaxy, and most humans have inhibitions about harming other humans, women in particular. Those inhibitions could help to a degree when fighting. Isn't like it take any real extra energy to give his daemons boobs anyway. Also they could have been from his younger days when he was more wild.

Buttons wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Formosa wrote:Its funny, someone once tried to tell me that all chaos deamons had to be a certain colour, red for khorne etc.
Telling me that CHAOS had to be uniform is kina funny

But there is the fact that fluff wise each god has their own personal preference based on what they represent. For Khorne it makes little sence for him to create a new type of mid level deamon, due to the fact that his current template works so well. Feminising khorne deamons would not help them kill more, so khorne just would not bother.

Well it might help a little. Humans are just behind Orks when it comes to the most numerous species in the galaxy, and most humans have inhibitions about harming other humans, women in particular. Those inhibitions could help to a degree when fighting. Isn't like it take any real extra energy to give his daemons boobs anyway. Also they could have been from his younger days when he was more wild.

I'm sorry i don't see why you seem to think that if an IG infantry man saw a KHORNE deamon with breasts he would stop a minute and think 'hitting girls is wrong', no its a giant beast of hulking fleash, blood, talons and horns.

1. Most deamons fight in battles (needing the trauma energy to breach the warp/realspace barrier) so will fight against soldiers, people trained to kill, and are shown in fluff to be able to kill any race as long as it may be an enemy.
2. Not hitting women is for the most part a cultural thing (as seen by differences across the world) therefore it holds little wieght in a discussion about 40k due to the massive number of cultures and that they most likely have little care for women's lib when aliens are invading.
3. Khorne is based on war and battle, he didn't have wilder days, he has spent the countless eons doing the same thing all the time, killing.

Hmmm... another art project for me.



Commisar Daemonette aproves!

BluntmanDC wrote:

Buttons wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Formosa wrote:Its funny, someone once tried to tell me that all chaos deamons had to be a certain colour, red for khorne etc.
Telling me that CHAOS had to be uniform is kina funny

But there is the fact that fluff wise each god has their own personal preference based on what they represent. For Khorne it makes little sence for him to create a new type of mid level deamon, due to the fact that his current template works so well. Feminising khorne deamons would not help them kill more, so khorne just would not bother.

Well it might help a little. Humans are just behind Orks when it comes to the most numerous species in the galaxy, and most humans have inhibitions about harming other humans, women in particular. Those inhibitions could help to a degree when fighting. Isn't like it take any real extra energy to give his daemons boobs anyway. Also they could have been from his younger days when he was more wild.

I'm sorry i don't see why you seem to think that if an IG infantry man saw a KHORNE deamon with breasts he would stop a minute and think 'hitting girls is wrong', no its a giant beast of hulking fleash, blood, talons and horns.

1. Most deamons fight in battles (needing the trauma energy to breach the warp/realspace barrier) so will fight against soldiers, people trained to kill, and are shown in fluff to be able to kill any race as long as it may be an enemy.
2. Not hitting women is for the most part a cultural thing (as seen by differences across the world) therefore it holds little wieght in a discussion about 40k due to the massive number of cultures and that they most likely have little care for women's lib when aliens are invading.
3. Khorne is based on war and battle, he didn't have wilder days, he has spent the countless eons doing the same thing all the time, killing.[/quote
Yeah, part 3 was a joke if you couldn't guess.

Chaos is begin to grow...

Boobs for the boob god.

Of the choices available, I think I'd go with the Privateer Blood Raiders and Witches, as much as anything because they're closer in scale and proportions to Citadel minis. Add a few skulls and a black/red/brass paintjob, and they ought to fit in rather well.

DeffDred wrote:Hmmm... another art project for me.

Commisar Daemonette approves!

I also approve, for what it's worth.

purplefood wrote:Chaos is begin to grow...

Check and mate!

English Assassin wrote:Add a few skulls

Voila:

http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=230

For my chaos WHFB army I had a unit of "when witch elves go bad". Howling Banshees with the las pistols* cut off and replaced with an additional hand weapon. Swap some chain axes and you'd have a nice unit of Khorn beserker-ettes.


* Yes, Las, this was a while ago.

those are some cool models

They are, and I think I'm going to order a few boxes just to have them for painting purposes and use in a few different games. I've got a Chaos Champion in mind for my current DH game who is female, and some of those Raging Heroes figures would work perfectly.

Also as the Dark Eldar I have on the world as well. It's inevitable that the party will want to investigate rumors of faeries and forest-folk.

Thanks for your comments and ideas.

Regarding fluff, I personally see no problem with Khorne being okay with warrior women. The example of Valkia gives some insight on this, as even after her daemonic ascension, she wasn't turned into a red-skinned genderless demon, but, rather, retained her beauty - though, of course, was given hooves/horns/wings and infernal steroids for blood.
This can be, in my opinion, at least partially explained by Khorne's rivalry with Slaanesh. What can work better at mocking your old foe than using his own toys (in this case, feminity and physical attractiveness, I don't go as far as attributing anything sexual to Khorne, although Valkia IS known as his consort, probably for a reason) your own way - having them on the battlefield spilling blood in your name?
And one last thing, Khorne appears to draw heavily upon images of demons and generic evil entities from real world religions and culture, more so that other three Chaos gods (in game fluff, this may be explained that he shared a lot history with mankind - see Doombreed, for example). And there's plenty of examples of women associated with war in death in such.

Just out of top of my head, Kali:


And I didn't even mention valkyries, who go without saying.


Regarding models, I took a closer look on all three options... The problem with Blood Vestals is that they are metal, though Preying Mantis are also available in resin. Metal, howvever, is no big problem as on smaller models, it much more sturdy and durable than resin, and not as hard to cut/drill as people may think (I only hate huge metal models). On Mantis models I was thinking to completely replace they arms from elbow, possibly replacing them with those of DE Corsairs - I have lots of those, and their curved, barbed swords are suitably khornate. That, and adding horns/resculpting tentacles into hair. I guess I should order a mix of them, for a total of 20 models.

Right now I have checked the local Moscow mini/bitz trading forum, and found a squad of 11 Satyxis Raiders for the 1/2 price of a brand new box of ten. I think it's a good deal.



I like the fact they have bulky, armored look not unlike the old Bloodletters. With chain whips replaced with hellblades, I think they will look suitably menacing.

Here's a test kitbash using a Satyxis leader I had in my bitz box. I didn't like her masked, hooded head (looked like some sort of a bdsm fetishist/leather nun... that's Slaanesh's turf!) so I replaced it with that of a daemonette with added horns - looks khorny enough! I also filed off the chain whip and replaced it with a daemoically looking blade.

What do you think? Should I resculpt her feet into hooves, btw?

Looks awesome, and yeah, go with hooves. and maybe some skulls, just in case

Bloodletters have no gender. They are the desire to spill blood put in biological form.

deathholydeath wrote:Boobs for the boob god.

Bras for his Bras throne.

Trying to shoe-horn tits and skimpy outfits into the Chaos fluff does not seem like a productive use of anyone's time. Sir, you are looking at the internet - simply type what you desire and it will be yours.

Bloodletters have no gender. They are the desire to spill blood put in biological form.

I guess that is why in the previous edition they were 1980's metal album cover demons, masculine to the hoof

Once again, this is not a thread for another 'woo-hoo, I'm thinking of making a female space marine demons army so I can finally touch boobs (even if they're small and plastic)!'

Gentlemen, what I'm talking here on is that Khorne is ALL about stereotypical and visually aggressive demons that came from cheap fantasy and heavy metal. And that's what makes him cool if you ask me. Now you're trying to tell me "okay, Khorne can have balrogs, halloween devils, hell hounds and mechanical rhinos, but demonesses are nay!" and I'm asking "why?", especially considering the fact there is a clear and present example of Valkia.
And unlike many people starting Rant for the Rant God, I also, *cough cough*, convert and paint minis, y' know.

Trying to shoe-horn tits and skimpy outfits into the Chaos fluff does not seem like a productive use of anyone's time. Sir, you are looking at the internet - simply type what you desire and it will be yours.

And here we have the winner! Thank you, sir, for the most helpful comment in this thread. *is off to fapping at pics of demonesses, right after putting the army on ebay* [/sarcasm]

Valkia is a daemon-prince[ss] no?
They have different rules surrounding them due to the way they were created in the first place...
A daemon-prince is a being that was mortal but is now something between a daemon and a mortal.
They have more... independence then a regular daemon or even a greater daemon.

If you want Khornate daemonettes go ahead there isn't anything against it but it does seem a rather arbitrary endeavor considering that daemons (not daemon princes/princesses) don't have a gender...

Indeed. But nothing prevents the patron deity from shaping them to resemble a male or a female.
Bloodthirsters are overly masculine. (Old) daemonettes were heavily feminine.
My point with Valkia is not that there can be female demons, but that Khorne (at least, at times) finds female warriors to his liking, and not *only* for being good warriors (re-read Valkia's tale and check how many times her beauty is mentioned there).