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Ok.
I don't see a problem with this but can anyone see any issues with the following scenario:

A generic librarian declares it will shoot smite at my rune priest. The priest is equiped with runic armour and a wolf tail talisma.

1) The priest can first deny the witch after the psychic test is rolled.
2) Using it's runic weapon to nullify the power after deny the witch.
3) Use a wolf tail talisman after the power "effects" the priest
4) the priest can make a 5+ invulnerable save against the wounds due to it's runic armour.

This has been brought up a few times. The answer is Yes. Except DtW is after the psychic test is passed.

Oh ok, didn't see it on here. Yeah, my bad on the order.

Out of curiosity (minor 'order of operations' error aside) Is there any compelling reason to believe it would 'not' work the way you've listed it?

Because people can't believe that GW would really let Runic Weapons stay working exactly the same, when they've made Psychic Hoods into a slightly-expanded use of your Deny the Witch roll.

Heh. Fantasy saves!

Mannahnin wrote:Because people can't believe that GW would really let Runic Weapons stay working exactly the same, when they've made Psychic Hoods into a slightly-expanded use of your Deny the Witch roll.

Ah. Yeah i find that hard to believe myself, but 'the rules are the rules', as they say.

It's more the 4 levels of protection against psykers that seems off.

liturgies of blood wrote:It's more the 4 levels of protection against psykers that seems off.

Space Wolves did hunt psykers you know. I don't really think this was all done on purpose, but I'm fine with it staying.

In reality, it is not overblown.

1. Runic Weapon is unchanged from 5th.
2. Standard Troops cannot get a WTT with exception of Blood Claws adding Lukas.
3. Everyone has Deny the Witch now.
4. Runic Armor is soley IC with some special characters, and only for wounds against that model.

So frankly for the most part, a unit is not going to get the full plethora of saves, but most likely the runic weapon and a Deny the Witch.

New FAQ indicates that only 1 of the items of wargear and/or Deny the Witch applies, so pick the best and roll wisely.

Jefffar wrote:
New FAQ indicates that only 1 of the items of wargear and/or Deny the Witch applies, so pick the best and roll wisely.

How do you roll wisely? This sounds like the secret to never loosing. Tell me!

 grendel083 wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
New FAQ indicates that only 1 of the items of wargear and/or Deny the Witch applies, so pick the best and roll wisely.

How do you roll wisely? This sounds like the secret to never loosing. Tell me!

By only ever using Runic Weapons (or Staff of the Tempest if you have that), since a 4+ (or 3+) will always be better than any other source of psychic defence available.

 Lobukia wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:It's more the 4 levels of protection against psykers that seems off.

Space Wolves did hunt psykers you know. I don't really think this was all done on purpose, but I'm fine with it staying.

If there was anything Russ hated more than a psyker I don't know what it was.

Jefffar wrote:
New FAQ indicates that only 1 of the items of wargear and/or Deny the Witch applies, so pick the best and roll wisely.

Which absolutely goes against the RAW of how each item is triggered. I guess GW got tired of the crying.

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
New FAQ indicates that only 1 of the items of wargear and/or Deny the Witch applies, so pick the best and roll wisely.

Which absolutely goes against the RAW of how each item is triggered. I guess GW got tired of the crying.

Probably, though truthfully I can see the point. As a general rule there should only be 1 save to do something and the best should be the one that applies. If the attack is potent enough to beat the best saving throw, then the lesser ones would have failed anyway.

At least that's how I hope they rationalized it. That and rolling 3 rolls every time your enemy pops off a psychic power kinda slows the game.

I guess the discrepancy comes when you say that a Wolf Tail is a talisman that negates any effects, Runic Armour is a Ward that deflects the cantrip, the Runic Weapon nullifies any power behind the curse and Deny The Witch comes from the actual being of the person.
Each one does a different job at a different time, but the end result is a failure to cause an effect.

From a very realistic view, they would all combine, but as a playable game mechanic, it's over-egging the pudding.

Beefmiester wrote:
I guess the discrepancy comes when you say that a Wolf Tail is a talisman that negates any effects, Runic Armour is a Ward that deflects the cantrip, the Runic Weapon nullifies any power behind the curse and Deny The Witch comes from the actual being of the person.
Each one does a different job at a different time, but the end result is a failure to cause an effect.

From a very realistic view, they would all combine, but as a playable game mechanic, it's over-egging the pudding.

Of course from a 'realistic' view, just because a beam of light managed to get through your force shield it might not make it pass your armour.

There are no certainties in this universe.
But then having 4 layers to penetrate makes the chances of failing far higher than just the one.

I know why they would want to expedite the process, and saying the one thing that gives you the best chance is the only chance you get, but maybe that 'weaker' save would have been the one that tripped it up.

What happens when you have a power that affects multiple enemy units (like a nova)? Say GH unit 1 with a runepriest and a second GH unit 2.

If you try to nullify it with the runic weapon and fail, does that prevent both squads from trying to Deny?

I would say so; based on the other ruling that you only get one Deny attempt, even if multiple units are being hit with the same power.

 Captain Antivas wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:It's more the 4 levels of protection against psykers that seems off.

Space Wolves did hunt psykers you know. I don't really think this was all done on purpose, but I'm fine with it staying.

If there was anything Russ hated more than a psyker I don't know what it was.

It was that bleedin spear his dad gave him, he'd get drunk toss it hundreds of miles away and then make his men search for days to find it.

Man i love the space wolves books, except when dan abnett writes them f*ck that guy. (no i'm not letting you change it to feth stupid censor)

In the case of a nova, you can try DtW per unit, or a SINGLE roll of 4+ to completely negate the power from 24" away with a runic weapon.

It says Either Or, not both.

 Brometheus wrote:
In the case of a nova, you can try DtW per unit, or a SINGLE roll of 4+ to completely negate the power from 24" away with a runic weapon.

It says Either Or, not both.

That is what the wording of the FAQ implies, which I think is idiotic.

A rune priest fails his runic weapon roll to nullify and that somehow saps the will of a completely different unit to Deny the Witch?

IMO, I think that the FAQ was meant to prevent stacking of .the RW, WTT, and Deny the Witch on ONE unit. However crappy writing has made it a one and done scenario for any SW unit affected by a psychic power, not just the one with a stacked psychic defense.

Stacking on one unit should not be allowed, but preventing other units that could be affected from using their own Deny the Witch attempt is just wrong.

If you allow dtw for other units you're stacking the RW with dtw on every unit but the rune priests unit... And that makes more sense?

The other units aren't concentrating on stopping the psychic onslaught because they trust in their priest. If he fails them why should they think they can defend themselves?

There are alot of reasons to think alot of things should be immune to something. The fact that they arent is just there because someone didnt follow the same trail of inspiration or because it would hihgly unbalance the game. I mean cron weapons rip your molecules off of your body. How does armor protect from that?