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Hey Dakka!
So Ive played my brother multiple times in a 500pt game, I've tried everything that's at my disposal to kill his warlord: regular shots, missile launchers, close combat, etc. But for some reason his Ork Warboss seems invisible, and what's worse, when I got my 5 lightning claw Terminators and Captain into close combat he managed to Instant death 3 of my terminators and my captain. I'm just wondering if this is even possible? Anyway! Let me know what you guys may have I offer in the way of help

Are you guys playing with the AOBR? If so, the Warboss model has a Power Klaw, which makes him S10 and his attacks are AP2, ignoring all of your armor. However, if he doesn't give the Warboss 'eavy Armor or a Cybork Body, you should be able to shoot him very easily since his armor is only 6+, which everything that you have shooting wise negates.

We are using AoBR and he has the power claw and cybork armor, which make him very tough to kill

Cyborks are easy to get around by throwing enough wounds at him. Only problem would be getting the shooting to touch the Warboss since he's more than likely attached to the Nobs or the Boyz.

Well, I through scouts into the mix for their D6 rule of when they roll 6 it's precision and I choose how to allocate, but with the whole night fighting rule and look out sir, he usually manages to either lose a for soldier or save the wound, so if I don't kill him before I get into close combat it's instant death.

One of the advantages you have with Space Marines is Rapid fire. You can use the new 24" range (having moved 6") to stay out of CC with your brother for quite a while, especially if you split up your forces. All that shooting, something's gonna give.

The only thing i can think of is instead of taking lightning claw terminators, take thunder hammer terminators. you aren't going to hit first, but you will have that 3 invincible save to fall back on.
The other thing would be to take the tactical termies instead of the assault termies, and give them assault cannons, you will be able to put like 10 or so wounds with average rolls on him per turn.

Almost all ork terminators-killing weapons do not have AP2. We crush them by weight of numbers. Thus using storm shields is pretty much useless.

I play against SM quite often,...

Terminators dont scare me one bit,... yeah they may have big bad armor,... we have power Klaws,... even if there were no power klaws,... orks have many more attacks in CC. No matter what,... a 1 will appear on your armor saves soon enough,... and you will lose a termie. Sure there might be situations and tactics with terminators that are dead killy,.. so what,.. i will still have many many many more boyz...

Use numbers, the sheer mass of attacks and boyz at your disposal are overwhelming for SM armies.

Well if you are playing 6th ed, you get to shoot twice with rapid fire after falling back 12 inches, so you could probably stay out of cc and put quite a few wounds down on him.

yea orks win by strength of numbers. i played a tourney not long ago where a landraider disembarks with th/ss termies they raped my 5 loots... but 20 boyz and nob w/ pk jumped out and handed them their asses .. 76 attacks htiting on 4's 38 hits wounding on 4's so 19 wounds means 20 boyz before the nob should put down 3 and then the nob 2 hits 2 wounds 1.3 get through ... and with fearless saves gone its a wrap

my suggestion for beating them though is pretty simple flamers and templates assuming he has no vehicles are an orks worst nightmare, also remember you can challange the orks and he if there is no nob may only accept with the warboss and thus he has to say yes and only kill your sarg... or say no and not attack at all

Having trouble understanding something here....

5LC Termies on charge get 4 attacks each (20 total) and the WB gets a 5+inv. Plus the Termies strike first.
Either you rolled badly on the hits (4+), or wounds..."Shred" usr lets you reroll failed wounds, WB should be catfood before he gets an attack.... even if the Orks charge. (PK strikes at I-1.)

A word of advice: don't get into combat with Terminators. Orks can put out a fearsome amount of firepower from lootas and looted wagons, and ten burna boyz in a battlewagon can, and have, killed terminators. Also if you do want to get into close combat, send 20+ boyz. Don't send your nob bikers or meganobz, as the terminators will inflict a lot of damage. 30 boyz charge your termies, and the termies will die down to a model. Also Tau allies work well, as the two armies compliment each other.

 Armageddon Reborn wrote:
A word of advice: don't get into combat with Terminators. Orks can put out a fearsome amount of firepower from lootas and looted wagons, and ten burna boyz in a battlewagon can, and have, killed terminators. Also if you do want to get into close combat, send 20+ boyz. Don't send your nob bikers or meganobz, as the terminators will inflict a lot of damage. 30 boyz charge your termies, and the termies will die down to a model. Also Tau allies work well, as the two armies compliment each other.

The OP is playing the SM.. and AGAINST the Orks.

^ what he said, I'm the SM not the Orks, haha.

Nob bikers can not be instant killed and they will always have FNP. they normally hit first.
There are a lot of variables.
Then a lot of this is unpredictable, like 30 boyz charging 5 SS/TH terminators the victor could be either depending on the damage first done.

MFletch wrote:
Nob bikers can not be instant killed and they will always have FNP. they normally hit first.
There are a lot of variables.
Then a lot of this is unpredictable, like 30 boyz charging 5 SS/TH terminators the victor could be either depending on the damage first done.

Ok.. so how would you as a Space Marine player take out that blob? Or a Warboss with PK and Cybork body?
THAT is what the OP is asking.

Assuming the warboss has toughness 4. Just shoot him to death with bolters, as has been mentioned.
Assuming only cyborg body.
Doesn't take too many bolter shots to kill a warboss.

Then 500 points is not a fun points total for marines. You'll play higher points you'll be fine. Most marine cool units start to make sense at about 1000 points, then at 1500 points you can even balance things in your list.

Later on you'll take a vindicator, which actually is a good ork boy killer that happens to instant kill the warboss. You should take a vindicator anyway at that stage to kill nob bikers and megaarmour nobs.

Vindicator. May seem like a fat egg in basket at that low point level, but it is the straight forward answer you are looking for.

Some games it will scatter badly, but more often than not it can wreck tons.

MFletch wrote:
Nob bikers can be instant killed only by S10 (which also denys FNP), and by anything that causes "Instant Death".

Fixed that for ya.

As an ork player who has a salamander playing brother, a land raider redeemer is a very, very scary thing (until my PKs tear it to shreds anyway). As stated above, templates are never fun for mobs of boyz. Try missiles maybe. Then again, my warboss has a habit of not dying too. He can bounce melta shots and krak missiles all day long and still feed a tac squad to his squig.

It would be easier to give advice if we knew what you had beside aobr, ps convert the dreadnought to have a flamer iinstead of a stormbolter, if he masses out on boyz you mass out in tac squads, I may have only played orks my entire career but if I ever started an imperium army I would mass the crap out of tac squads or somethin similar, if your having trouble with a warboss in a bubble of boys, do everything you can to be the one charging, ork boys suck when not on the charge, same with termies, and finally get as many pie plates and flames you possible can into your list

As an ork player the way to take out the boys is templates from long range. My main fear is missile spam. Which means when my son started adding a space wolves contingent with long fangs my problems really started.

helgrenze wrote:Having trouble understanding something here....

5LC Termies on charge get 4 attacks each (20 total) and the WB gets a 5+inv. Plus the Termies strike first.
Either you rolled badly on the hits (4+), or wounds..."Shred" usr lets you reroll failed wounds, WB should be catfood before he gets an attack.... even if the Orks charge. (PK strikes at I-1.)

20 attacks, 10 hit(4+), 3.33 wound(5+), another 2.22 due to the reroll, 3.70 are unsaved by cybork(5++). So yeah, he was lucky, but not that lucky. The chance of 5LC terminators causing only two wounds is pretty high.
If he strikes back, he will attack 6 times, hit 4 times (3+), wound 3.33 times (2+), causing 2.22 unsaved wounds(5++). Again, killing three or four is not that unlikely. Few dice mean high chance of straying from the average.

So yes, the ork player was lucky, but it wasn't pure fluke. Vanilla assault terminators simply aren't that effective against orks.

MFletch wrote:Assuming the warboss has toughness 4. Just shoot him to death with bolters, as has been mentioned.
Assuming only cyborg body.
Doesn't take too many bolter shots to kill a warboss.

A warboss is T5. But yeah, shoot him dead if he goes off on his own, even if he has 'eavy armor.Three wounds only go so far.

The warboss will have toughness 4 when with boyz. My point was probably, assuming not mega armour, I do not mind whether bolter shots hit the warboss or boys either is fine by me.

Unless his buddy has as unlucky dice as I do, 2+ LoS makes it pretty unlikely for the boss to take a wound

Vel'cona wrote:
We are using AoBR and he has the power claw and cybork armor, which make him very tough to kill

Why are you not using the Dreadnought?, if i can remember it has a lascannon does it not?

The dreadnought is usually dropped because
a) The ork player has no way of handling it in AOBR
b) The space marine army has a lot more points than the orks have.

Due to the buff to deff koptaz I can see the ork half being a bit stronger in 6th, as the missile launcher no longer counters them.
My best advice for such a low point game would be getting either sternguard or devastators to replace your assault terminators. That, or a dakka pred (autocannon and heavy bolter sponsons). Deploy as far up front as possible and start shooting them ASAP. Keep moving back to stay out of 18" (maximum charge range) . You'll only get one shot that way, but you'll lose a lot less. Once you cannot back away anymore, take the initiative and charge them. While orks tend to kill your unit anyways while assaulted, you kill more orks that way, and the orks will have killed your guys until your next turn, enabling you to shoot them once again.

My best advise to undercutting the greenskins is cover cutting weaponry, large blast templates no weaker than strength 5 and using dangerous close combaters to finish the job once the horde has been thinned properly. So I suggest whirlwind tanks, assault cannons, lots of planned out bolter shots witha retreating advance and flamers. NEVER CAN HAVE ENOUGH FLAMERS

every time i see a flamer i start to grumble... doesn't matter if it's a 50% chance to wound... i grumble it just... CAUSES it. So yeah flamers, Whirlwinds, Dreadnoughts, land raiders, lots of marine squads with flamers and if at all possible libby powers.

helgrenze wrote:Having trouble understanding something here....

5LC Termies on charge get 4 attacks each (20 total) and the WB gets a 5+inv. Plus the Termies strike first.
Either you rolled badly on the hits (4+), or wounds..."Shred" usr lets you reroll failed wounds, WB should be catfood before he gets an attack.... even if the Orks charge. (PK strikes at I-1.)

The termies would be rolling 4s to hit and 5s to wound a Warboss.

MFletch wrote:Nob bikers can not be instant killed and they will always have FNP. they normally hit first.
There are a lot of variables.
Then a lot of this is unpredictable, like 30 boyz charging 5 SS/TH terminators the victor could be either depending on the damage first done.

And Nob Bikers CAN be insta killed, anything str10 will do the job nicely.








On topic. Id chalk it up as bad dice rolls for one. But yea, all those LoS! rolls will make him REALLY tough to kill. Focus on killing the boyz he is with first, as mentioned, just shoot the piss out of the squad. If you want his boss dead, dedicate yourself to the cause. Dont use 1 tactical to shoot this, and another to shoot that and blah blah blah. Use all your fire power mowing down boyz. Once he cannot LoS! anymore, then its very easy to kill that Boss, because T5/3 wounds with a 5++ save isnt going to last for pooh. Focus on shooting that unit down first, the rest will be easy.

*I cant spell