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Lovin the game, went really well, we got 6 games played. 1 drk angels 1 space wolves crimson fists. 1 orks 1 eldar and 1 dark eldar.

So we all got a game and once we got the flow it really went well. Keep the rules coming we didnt have the 1.2 campaign at the time so will update with that next.

We did find we have a couple of questions:-

1, when a model is down can he be shot at and how would this take place? The Melee part is fine but shooting left us with a bit of an issue. We decided for the night ( after mucho arguing) that you can only shoot them if you have no other target in range and they get a pinned cover save of 5+.

2, when in assault with a model and you have multiple models in the assault (1 marine and 3 orks), which model does the marines attacks go to assuming they are all in b2b, do the wounds all go on one ork and the rest are lost if it dies or do they carry to the next ork and so on?

Glad you enjoyed it!

1) You used the optional Injury rules i take it? To be honest there has been no decision with regards to Shooting, the Injury rules have been included for people who want to use them - but they havnt been playtested very much. A 'Go to Ground' save is a good idea, though that would be only a 6+. Will have a chat with my group and see what they can come up with!

2) Models can split their attacks between units - pg28 40k rulebook.

I think in regards to the necron list maybe it would make more sense to move flayed ones to the core list. I know they are elites in the codex but they really fit more into a core role than a specialist. I think they shouldn't have been elites in the codex to begin with, but that is besides the point. I also think they would fit core better in that they cant pull from the armory at all. Now maybe if their points cost was raised and they were given fear or rending or some other ability(something that would fit with their persona) they would fit a specialist much more. Just a thought for you. I found your post on here and showed my friend and now we are excited to try out your game as we are big fans of mordheim.

Loving the idea here, looks like an awesome ruleset (I love Mordheim).

Keep up the good work!


P.S. Any chance you are working on a Daemons army list?

Thanks for your ideas martaug947, some good ones in there. I like Flayed Ones as Core, but maybe its best to have it as an option for a lord? Or perhaps have it as a special rule for a new 'Flayer Lord'? Does that make sense in the background, a Lord contracting the flayer curse?

Thanks for your comment nolzur, the campaign rules especially were based off Mordheim (with a few tweaks, and some influence from Necromunda thrown in) as my group have been loved playing in multiple campaigns since the game came out. And yes, Daemons are a priority to get done. Check the site just before the weekend and they should be done.

A flayer lord would be a pretty cool idea. I know in the fluff it talks about there being a lord that rules over them in their 'palaces of gore' in the dimension they reside in. Maybe the lord unlocks flayed ones as core. I know the shadowloom upgrade would probably be useful for flayed ones as an upgrade, but maybe have a couple of 'mutations' that you could give them from the armory or the lord would give them as an upgrade to him. Just building on your idea a little. It's possible this may be adding too much to the kill team list.

Also when I was looking over the list I noticed that it costed 5 points for a Triarch to get the pistol/voidblade swap. Was this used as a balancing tool? If it was just being pulled from the regular codex then it would be a free swap. Just thought I'd ask about that as it may be a typo that slipped through.

Awesome job on this ruleset as always! Thanks much.

How about having it as armoury wargear:

Flayer Curse (Lord Only) – 5 pts
In a team lead by a Lord with the Flayer Curse, Flayed Ones must be taken as Core. Also, the Lord gains the Infiltrate special rule.

Yeh the Triarch thing is a typo, they should be free, sorry.

Before we go through the Necron list and update it, is there anything specific you think needs adding/editing (points aside)?

Question about the Chaos Space Marine Kill Team-

If you roll on the boon table, and get Daemon Prince, should you just roll again, ignoring the prince result?

I noticed that you do not allow MC or FMC in the Kill Team games, so this seems like an option that would not work out (it would be super-powerful).

Or would you want it to be a different, still powerful, but not as powerful ability? Perhaps +1 Toughness and +1 Strength or something along those lines.

This would still make rolling a 65/66 really good, but not so powerful that nobody wants to play you anymore in a campaign.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Adding +1 wound would actually be an amazing ability, but would not be as game-changing as Princedom - maybe that would work?

Okay I did a little brainstorming and came up with something that may be pretty interesting. I like the idea of the flayer curse and i think 5 points would be good to start with and see if it is balanced. To build on that idea and fluff wise, I am thinking that maybe it would be:

-Flayer Curse (Leader) 5 points
Your leader has been infected with the flayer curse. As such he can command flayed ones as core units. As Necrons despise the flayer curse and actively purge infected individuals, you must purchase Flayer Curse(5 points a model) for every model in your kill team that isn't a flayed one(as they are already cursed). Having the flayer curse allows you to purchase flayer mutations.


Flayed ones would gain the special rule Flayer Curse, either for free or increase their cost accordingly


Flayer Mutations

-Flaying blades 5 points
Your cursed necron has grown phased blades capable of cutting with ease. Your model has Rending for its close combat attacks.

-Swaddled in Gore 10 points
Your cursed necron likes to wear your enemies as a hat, or fashionable tie. In close combat at the start of the round, enemies in base contact with the model must take a leadership test. If they fail the test then they can only strike the model on a to hit roll of 6.

-''And Still I Ooze'' 15 points
Your cursed necron has bathed in gore a bit too much, or not. As their bodies somehow ooze blood even when dry, the model cannot be started on fire.

-At One With Your Enemies 15 points
Your cursed necron's body has absorbed many enemies... somehow. The necrons living metal tissue has fused with its enemies bits. The model's armor save becomes 1 better.

-''I've Been There'' 15 points
Your cursed necron has seen worse, well because he is worse. Something that was normal in your necron(if you can call a cursed necron normal), ain't so anymore. Your necron is fearless and has preferred enemy(everything).

This is about what I had thought. Could also be cool to incorporate a pariah warscythe in there too. It was a warscythe with a gauss blaster built in. I don't know what the cost would be like on something like that, but was a neat weapon from the old codex.

Hopefully some of this is helpful, or at least fun to read. This is awesome to be able to give input into such a good ruleset. Thanks much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also found a typo in the armory. There is a misspelling on Stasis Field. It is down as Statis Field.

nolzur - Remember the boon only lasts for a single game (i know it doesnt make sense, but otherwise it would be way to overpowered!), and you only get boons for killing characters - of which there is only one in every team. So rolling a 65-66 is VERY rare. And if you managed to wrangle to kill their Team Leader with your Team Leader and roll a 65-66 then by joe i think you've earned that daemon prince for the rest of that game :-P. On another note, MC are not strictly forbidden (it doesnt say that anywhere in the main KT rules). The restrictions in the 'official codex' document are only there when you create your team from a codex, rather than the team lists.

martaug947 - Thanks for your work! it sounds very cool from a background point of view, but is a little bit unwieldy in game terms, i'll have a read of the codex and get back to you. Wargear wise, I don't think Flayed Ones should be able to take items from the armoury, but I could always add a few 'Flayer Lord' specific items. I'll incorporate some of your ideas when i do the next update.

Np Darth. I spent a little time with the current and last codex yesterday thinking up some ideas. One of the mutations is a direct pull from the old codex. It is so awesome to be able to have input on a game like this. Thanks again!

Hey guys, i'm toying witht he idea of introducing optional rules for transports in Kill Team. Let me know what you think of this first draft:

KILL TEAM: TRANSPORTS

Transports are a great way to add narrative to a game of Kill Team, you can imagine your tooled up team driving flat out into enemy territory under a hail of fire and disembarking on an important objective.

However, these rules are definitely meant to be optional - Transports add a lot more complexity to games of Kill Team, so it is recommended that only players with a few games under their belt play with these rules. To use Transports, use all the normal rules found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook along with the additional rules found here.


GENERAL RULES

Choosing Your Transport
At the end of this document you will find unit entries for all Transports available in Kill Team. You will notice their points cost will differ from Codex values. This is intentional, as the scale of the battle is very different in Kill Team and Transports effect the game in a much bigger way. You may have as many Transports at the same as you can afford - but be careful, they take up a large chunk of points and tend not to last long in game!

Transports may be used in single, non-campaign games if both players are happy to do so. If both players are using Transports in a single game, increase the points limit from 250 to 300 to accommodate the expense. If only one player is using a Transport, he has to find the points from the usual 250!

Campaign games have different rules to follow when requisitioning Transports, see the Campaign Rules section below.

Transport Capacity
Transports may carry a number of models up to its Transport Capacity, these models do not have to be in the same unit. For example, a Rhino may carry a total of 10 models regardless if the 10 models are in the same unit. The models may embark and disembark separately (unless they're in a Squad).

Firing Points
Any model embarked in a Transport may fire out of its firing points, and may target different units. If the Transport is charged, embarked models may fire Overwatch through its firing points as normal (they all fire together, as described in the Kill Team rules). You may only fire Overwatch out of the firing points once per turn.

Shooting
The Transport does not have to fire all of its weapons at the same unit.

Mission Objectives
Transports may not claim or contest objectives, or play any part in a mission (e.g. hold a hostage or pick up Relics). A Transport may not carry models who are carrying mission 'objectives' such as Relics, markers, etc. A Hostage may not be carried in a Transport.

Vehicle Damage
Follow the 'Effect of Damage on Passengers' rules on page 80 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook as normal. In addition, any hit on passengers suffered by the effects of an Explodes! result have the 'Flamer' rule found in the Kill Team rules. This does not extend to those hit by the 'external radius' of the explosion (which is more lethal debris than fireball). A model that shot at the Transport in the turn it was destroyed may declare a charge at any of its occupants.


NEW RULES

As Kill Team is a skirmish sized game, more complex rules may be introduced in regards to vehicles - adding depth and greater tactics. Following are a number of additional rules to use when playing with Transports.

Dodge
If a Transport comes under fire, the driver can swerve and jink to avoid taking damage. After the enemy has rolled To Hit against a Transport, but before armour penetration rolls are made, you can choose to Dodge until the end of its next turn. A dodging vehicle gains a 5+ cover save, but may only fire Snap Shot and may not embark or disembark passengers.

Step on It!
To represent the limited manoeuvrability of a fast moving vehicle, a Transport that is moving over 6" in its Movement phase can only make a single pivot on the spot of up to 90 degrees - however this pivot may be made at any point during its move.

Moving Flat Out
Before a Transport makes a Flat Out move, it may make a single pivot on the spot of up to 90 degrees. Thereafter, it must make its Flat Out move directly forwards in a straight line.

Battlefield Repairs
Anyone with access to their armoury may take a 'Tool Kit' for 5 points allowing them to make a battlefield repair. During their shooting phase, a model with a Tool Kit may try and repair a single friendly vehicle they are touching or are embarked upon instead of making a shooting attack. Roll a D6. On a 6 you may either restore a Hull Point lost earlier in the battle, or repair an Immobilised result suffered earlier in the battle, this is effective immediately.

Crashed
If a Transport fails a Dangerous Terrain test and becomes Immobilised it also Crashes! If the vehicle moved under 6" before it Crashed nothing extra happens. If the distance was 6" or over however, roll on the chart below to see what happens:

1-2. The vehicle hits the object with so much force it crumples! The front amour value of the Transport is reduced by 1 for the rest of the game. Additionally, all models within the vehicle suffer a S2 AP- hit.

3-4. The vehicle flips over! Immediately turn the vehicle model onto its back. All passengers must immediately disembark in exactly the same way as if they were being thrown from a Wrecked vehicle. The vehicle may not fire any weapons or carry passengers while it is flipped. As soon as the vehicle's Immobilised result is fixed it flips back over and may act normally.

5-6. The vehicle skids! Instead of immediately stopping at the point the vehicle entered the terrain, the vehicle may complete its full movement before becoming Immobilised at the end of the move.


CAMPAIGN RULES

Don't Scratch the Paint!
Transports are valuable resources that are only given to team leaders that have proven themselves in the field. A player may buy a Transport in the 'Buy and Sell stuff' phase of a Campaign once his Team Leader has reached Experience Level 5. This is done in exactly the same way as buying a new model for a team. If at any point the team leader is killed, the Transport is still kept by the team until it is lost (or until they can't afford the Upkeep Fee). The team would not be able to buy a new one until the new team leader reaches Level 5.

Requisition and Upkeep Fees
When a team requisitions a new Transport, you must pay its Requisition Fee. Subsequently, after each battle the Transport is used, excluding the first, you must pay its Upkeep Fee if you want the Transport for future battles. The Upkeep Fee represents the maintenance cost of the vehicle (fuel, repairs, etc.). If the Transport is lost, or you no longer want it, you don’t have to pay any upkeep.

These costs are indicated in the entries for each Transport. The points paid come from the team's Requisition Points in the same way as buying new weapons or recruiting new models. If you don’t have enough points to pay the Upkeep Fee for the Transport, or want to spend it on other things, it is taken from the Team.

Equipment, Experience and Points
Transports may buy options as listed in their entry (both when it is requisitioned and during the campaign), but you do not gain any points back from 'selling' optional equipment. Also, Transports do not earn Experience Points. You always add a Transport's Requisition Fee plus any options you take to your Team Points value. If the Transport is lost or you dismiss it, your Team Points will be reduced by this value.

Permanent Damage
If a Transport is either Wrecked or Explodes! during a game, you must roll on the following table to determine what permanent damage it has acquired. Reduce the dice roll by 1 if the vehicle rolled an Explodes! result.

TRANSPORT PERMANENT DAMAGE CHART
Roll a D6. Explodes! results reduce by 1.

1. Lost
The Transport has been blown up beyond repair! Remove the model from your roster.

2. Substantial Damage
The vehicle has been permanently damaged. Roll again:
1. Hull - Starting HP is reduced by 1.
2. Armour - All armour values are reduced by 1 (min. 1).
3. Engine - May never make a Flat Out move.
4. Crew - Reduce BS by 1 (min. 1).
5. Drive - Fails Dangerous Terrain tests on a 1 or 2.
6. Volatile - Any Explodes! result effects have +1S.

3. Disgruntled Machine Spirit
The machine spirit of the vehicle is angry at the damage it has suffered. At the start of its Movement phase, roll a D6. On a 1 the model counts as being Shaken for the rest of the turn.

4-6. Successful Repair
The wreck of the vehicle has managed to be fully repaired back to working order.

Rules sound good at first read. Looks pretty balanced. Imperial transports will work well with those rules. I know with crons their only transport that is a non flier is a ghost ark and it can only transport warriors(including any attached characters). Maybe would have to rewrite the rule and allow it to transport any crons? Other xenos armies I don't know how their transports work. I'm sure a little playtesting will sort out any problems. I like the rule for campaigns that your leader has to be level 5 before you can get a transport. That should limit the 'overpowered' vehicle factor in a beginning game.

How does rolling an 11-12 on the core advancement chart work with grouped models?

cancleout wrote:
How does rolling an 11-12 on the core advancement chart work with grouped models?

Its right there in the rules for that result... You choose one model from the group, and roll again for the rest of the group.

I must have been reading with tired eye...

thanks.

so does the deffkopta have a TL big shoota and there is a typo or is there some reason you choose to only give it a TL shoota?

mouskowitz wrote:
so does the deffkopta have a TL big shoota and there is a typo or is there some reason you choose to only give it a TL shoota?

I was curious about that as well. I think it's a typo, and they should have their default war gear.

This has been fixed for a while sorry I haven't replied. Check the latest Ork list.

Hey darth, I got to play 2 games using these rules today and I have to say, you did an amazing job with them.

Curious minds want to know though, for the second game we did a 4 man free for all, have you given any thoughts into multi player aspects?

this was the biggest thing we wondered about:
can you shoot into CC's you are not involved in?
and how many people can assault into the same CC? At one point we could have had all 4 of us involved in one massive CC.

We tried playing a 1v1v1v1 before and it didnt turn out well... there is always one player who gets picked on. My recommendation is to play 2v2 team games with the normal 40k ally rules.

If you are using the core 40k rules you cannot shoot into combat and you can have as many people as you can fit in a combat! Of course this doesnt stop you house-ruling that if a side is not involved in a combat it can shoot into it. But as I said, my advice would be to play 2v2 as it make life a lot easier!

I will be sure to try this out over summer break once I get the chance. Quick question though- I play guard, and it seems as if we'd have to struggle to hit the 250 point cap without buying unneccessary upgrades. But that's just at first glance without crunching any numbers.

Cool, let me know how it goes zhutch!

Struggle?! I play a guard list based off ADBs Cadian Blood and I struggled to keep the points DOWN when i first started!

Imperial Guard Kill Team - The 88th

TEAM LEADER
Warden-Captain Thade (Team Commander) - Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Melta Bomb, Carapace Armour, Refractor Field, Duellist Honours = 51

CORE (11/25)
Darrick (Sergeant) - Veteran, Power Weapon = 20
Zailen (Veteran) - Plasma Gun = 25
Janden (Veteran) = 10
Veteran x 8 = 80

SPECIAL (3/5)
Vertain (Scout Sentinel) = 35
Jevrian (Storm Trooper) = 16
Seth (Sanctioned Psyker) = 10

=247/250

I had to drop all the upgrades I wanted! Naturally, as the campaign went on Jevrian gained a Chem-inhaler ;-) (only funny if you've read the book...)

With new Tau codex out. When do you think you will have time to update Tau KT List ?

Woah, the dude who invented Kill Team posts here? Very nice.

I've been looking to start it up at my local club. I was under the impression it was an official GW sub-game lol!

Though I was gonna change it up a bit with some tweaks to overwatch and ballistics skill, because if your not playing the official game, might as well change it up to fit your tastes

 Dakkamite wrote:
Woah, the dude who invented Kill Team posts here? Very nice.

I've been looking to start it up at my local club. I was under the impression it was an official GW sub-game lol!

Though I was gonna change it up a bit with some tweaks to overwatch and ballistics skill, because if your not playing the official game, might as well change it up to fit your tastes

Agreed my group got half a dozen house rules as well, but do have in mind that KT Rules were made around WH40k Rules, with that said, it might unbalance certain races/factions depending on what you tweak around and how you tweak it

Hi guys, thanks for posting your KT comments on Dakka. It will be a lot easier for me to log into here once a week or so and try and answer any questions, rather than try and answer emails as they arrive.

With new Tau codex out. When do you think you will have time to update Tau KT List ?

When its ready ;-). Shouldnt be too long a wait though, although it may not be playtested when it is posted...

I've been looking to start it up at my local club. I was under the impression it was an official GW sub-game lol!

KT is an unofficial expansion to 40k, if you want the official rules for KT check out the 4th edition rulebook (which is a totally different game to this beast though!). Warhammer World have also been running an official KT event for a while now, the rules of which can be found on the GW site.

Though I was gonna change it up a bit with some tweaks to overwatch and ballistics skill, because if your not playing the official game, might as well change it up to fit your tastes

This is what I want people to feel free to do! If you have any cool ideas/house rules, please post them here for others to use and adapt. I have heard of people using the Warhammer Fantasy BS (range and cover modifiers) and armour rules (replaces AP) to great success too.

It might unbalance certain races/factions depending on what you tweak around and how you tweak it

Exactly right. We can't change the rules too much. Although codex balances are already changed massively with the single model unit rules. Something we struggled with when we were creating the team lists.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
As I wont have chance to playtest the Tau list, what do people think of this alternative rule for Markerlights:

Markerlights
Do not use the Target Acquired special rule from the codex, instead use the following: Markerlights cannot directly cause damage or Wounds. Instead, if a model is hit by a markerlight, place a markerlight ‘D6’ next to it (this can simply be a different coloured die) with the number 6 facing upward. Immediately before a friendly Tau model shoots at a target with markerlight D6s, you may choose to reduce the number on one or more of the markerlight D6s in order to do the following effects:

• Pinpoint – Reduce a markerlight D6 by 1 to increase your BS by 1 for the duration of this shooting attack. You may do this multiple times. Pinpoint can increase the BS of Snap Shots.

• Scour – Reduce a markerlight D6 by 3 in order for a single weapon fired at the target as part of this shooting attack to gain the Ignores Cover special rule. If there is less than 3 remaining on a D6 you may not use Scour.

If a markerlight D6 is reduced to zero, remove the die. Markerlight D6s remain next to their model until the end of the current phase or until they are used.

 Darth Meer wrote:

When its ready ;-). Shouldnt be too long a wait though, although it may not be playtested when it is posted...

That won't be a problem I will playtest with my group, as our own campaign is nearing its end. We agreed to stop once 2 of us hit 800 points (we got 5 players )

What i would like to see through in new Tau KT List compared to the old one is more accessible drones, as it is one of staples of Tau army.
This is wishful thinking, but some more special model slots open for them.

Don't worry, a healthy dose of Drones is on its way!

Also, we now have a Facebook group! You can join it, and join in the discussion, here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/481345801919687/

I'm preparing an update (v1.7) to the core Kill Team rules this week. What would everyone like to see? Plans so far are: replacement missions for Hostage and Grab & Run, rules for buying multiple grenades, rules for blasts and how they interact with 'real terrain'. As well as a number of small clarifications.

Here are the replacement missions in their current form:


Mission 3: Breakthrough
In this mission one Kill Team tries to break through the enemy’s battle line either to flee their pursuers, or to rush towards the enemy’s command.

Special Rules
After terrain has been placed, but before deployment, each player rolls a die. Whoever scores higher decides which player will be the Attacker. The Attacker chooses a table corner and sets up first, within 6" of the corner. The other play is the Defender and may set up anywhere on the table as long as all his warriors are at least 18" away from any attacker. The Attacker always has the first turn.

Victory Points
The ‘Come Back You Cowards!’ secondary objective is now worth 3 VP.

Ending the Game
In addition to the normal rules for ending a game if the Attacker succeeds in moving 25% or more models to within 6" of the Defender’s table corner, they have broken through and he automatically wins the game.

Bonus Campaign Experience
If an Attacker Team Leader or Special model ends the game within 6” of the Defender’s table corner, they gain +1 EXP.


Mission 5 – Seize Ground
In the Seize Ground mission the battlefield is strewn with discarded equipment, wounded comrades and supply caches that each team wishes to hold.

Special Rules
Once you have placed the terrain you must place a number of objective markers on the table to represent locations of importance. Roll D3+2 to see how many markers there are. Each player takes it in turn to place a marker. Roll a D6 to see which player goes first. Objective markers must be placed more than 6" from the edge of the table and at least 6" away from each other.

Victory Points
If a player has a model within 3" of an objective counter at the end of the game, and there are no enemies also within 3", they are said to have ‘claimed’ that objective and gain 1 VP.

Bonus Campaign Experience
If a Team Leader or Special model claims an objective marker at the end of the game he receives +1 EXP.