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I'm putting together a starter 1500 army for Ultramarines, and I'm looking at trying this out:

HQ: Chaplain Cassius (attached to Terminators)
Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (5x TH&SS) + LRR (+Multi)
Elite: Dreadnought (CCW/Multi) + Drop Pod
Troops: Tactical Squad (Flamer, Missile, Powerfist) + Rhino (+Armor)
Troops: Tactical Squad (Melta, Missile, Powerfist) + Rhino (+Armor)
Troops: Scout Squad (4x Sniper, Missile) + Aegis Defense (Quad-Gun)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder (HBolter + Typhoon)

I already have a LRR, so it seems like this would actually be a fairly cheap force to put together. I haven't played Space Marines in a long time though, and not many play them at my shop. Glaring holes in the list?

No major flaws. You have some melta, AA, massed bolter fire for hordes. All the bases covered.

I think extra armor is a waste these days with the new vehicle rules. Power fists for ultramarines are unnecessary on tac squads, (not useless, but points that could be put to better use elsewhere) You might want to consider a combi weapon matching the squad, or just run with stock gear. Sgt. Tallion looks to be quite nice, especially manning a quad gun. He'd be a good place to shift the points to. Also, camo cloaks; 2+ cover saves are good things.

I'd run the second tac squad MM/M rather then ML/M.

The LRR is my least favorite variant, but if it's what you have, roll with it. I like a mix of claws/hammers; I run 2:3.

I've not fielded Cassius, but on paper he looks good, and I approve of chaplains leading assault squads.

You don't have any HS picks. This might impact games like "Big guns never tire" I like having one pick from each slot myself. The only thing I could see dropping would be the dread for an auto/las pred, and I'm not sure that's worth it in your list.

a Thunderfire Cannon could also be a good purchase.

Drop the Extra Armor, Make the Quad Gun an Icarus, find 5 more points to drop.

Get Telion.

Use Telion on the Icarus Lascannon - Sniper Lascannon!

Laugh when you one shot Company Commanders, Necron Overlords hiding in a Royal Court, Artificer Armored Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, do wounds to Mephiston, etc.

Thanks. Actually I did put Camo Cloaks on the scouts, just forgot to type it.

I can make the LRR an HS choice, right? They can still start out transporting right?

I dropped the Tac Sgts to pistol/ccw and removed extra armor too, taking Telion & 7 Scouts (no ML, but they do have Camo).

HQ
Chaplain Cassius

ELITE
Assault Terminator x5 (3xHamme/Shield, 2xClaws)
Dreadnought (MultiM/DCCW) + Drop Pod

TROOPS
Tactical Marines x10 (Flamer/Missile, Sgt Pistol/CCW) + Rhino
Tactical Marines x10 (Flamer/Missile, Sgt Pistol/CCW) + Rhino
Scout Marines x8 (7x Sniper Rifle, Cloaks, +Telion) + Aegis Defense (Quad Gun)

FAST ATTACK
Land Speeder (Typhoon/HBolter)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Land Raider Redeemer (+Multi)

Great list. Drop powerfists for Telion, he'll make you happy.
Powerfists are not needed due to combat tactics and also challenges make them a little weird.

ML gives some range to the unit, which tends to be nice.

You could bring the land raider as a heavy choice if you cared about big gun never tire.

Definitely dropping the PF for Telion. Also dropping Extra Armor off the Rhinos. Keeping the quad gun too.

I don't see any downside to taking the LRR as a Heavy Support, since I can still start the terms inside it.

Eugee wrote:Definitely dropping the PF for Telion. Also dropping Extra Armor off the Rhinos. Keeping the quad gun too.

I don't see any downside to taking the LRR as a Heavy Support, since I can still start the terms inside it.

The problem people have is the not the transport but the fact that it is a Redeemer. Most people feel Crusaders are far more effective.

Why put a power armour special character chaplain with termies, take a librarian (or evan better an epistolary) with terminator armour and a storm shield

Purger of the Unclean wrote:Why put a power armour special character chaplain with termies, take a librarian (or evan better an epistolary) with terminator armour and a storm shield

Cassius is a very valuable IC. He can be surrounded by terminators (must shoot closest) and he can benefit from 'look out sir!' and has 'feel no pain' so terminator armor is far less important.

As far as utility goes, Cassius is a chaplain so those termies are re-rolling all 'to hit' rolls in CC. Librarians bring more utility but still have to pass psychic tests, nullifications, 'deny the witch' rolls and other such nonsense. Lastly, the librarian psychic hood got nerfed. At 1500 points, Cassius is as good or better than a Termi Libbi.

meh, you can reroll hits ON THE TURN YOU CHARGE with a chaplain, the libbi can enhance the unit, instant kill and penetrate marine armour

Purger of the Unclean wrote:meh, you can reroll hits ON THE TURN YOU CHARGE with a chaplain, the libbi can enhance the unit, instant kill and penetrate marine armour

You are already in a CC terminator squad. You think that libbi is changing much in terms of killyness?

Hammernators are AP2, no? Lightning claws AP3? Chappy weapon AP2 or 3? Point being, they all penetrate marine armor. Most do so better than a force weapon.

I find the one off Libbi force weapon attack to rarely help in most circumstances. And as mentioned before, It is still a CC termi squad, killyness is not often a problem.

Yes the libbi is a greater utility character. That is a given, but as mentioned above there are still lots of things that can go wrong and he is more expensive.

Purger of the Unclean wrote:meh, you can reroll hits ON THE TURN YOU CHARGE with a chaplain, the libbi can enhance the unit, instant kill and penetrate marine armour

If you are assaulting out of a LR, odds are, you are getting the charge. Between LC re-rolling to wounds, and THs hitting at S8, the thing holding assault terminators form wounding with every attack on they make is the misses to hit.

I love my librarian. He is a versatile tool that bring a lot to the army. But if you gear him up for close combat, you need to be lucky for him to work better then a chaplain as a leader. Either lucky on the rolls for the powers if you are going that route, or lucky to snake a wound onto a tough model and make the check to activate your force weapon (easier now with the different flavors) And if there is an eldar player out there with runes, you have an even chance of your brains oozing out your ears then you do getting a power off.

Chaplains just work. They do one thing, and they do it well. They do it with hate, zeal, and sheer awesomeness. And they look cool doing it. They are not just a CC beatstick, they make the whole squad better. Which is what I look for in my HQs.

I'm not arguing against a chaplain altogether, but just not cassius, he doesn't suit termies, hes only ap 4 and he's got pa not ta

Purger of the Unclean wrote:I'm not arguing against a chaplain altogether, but just not cassius, he doesn't suit termies, hes only ap 4 and he's got pa not ta

With Look Out Sir! a 2+ is just a 2+ away...

Thematically, I like to have my chaplain in TDA to match the squad, but it's not as necessary these days with LOS. And if the squad gets cut down to one guy and Cassius, hello T6 terminator.

Plus the guy is a bargain for what you pay for him.

it fair to say you won this one...

Wait, how is Cassius AP4? Aren't chappy weapons (whatever they are called) considered power weapons and therefore minimally AP3?

Deuce11 wrote:Wait, how is Cassius AP4? Aren't chappy weapons (whatever they are called) considered power weapons and therefore minimally AP3?

They are called out explicitly in the FAQ as power mauls, so are S+2, AP 4, concussive.

I took Cassius over Chaplain w/ Terminator Armor because he's 5 points cheaper and has FNP + T6.

Eugee wrote:Definitely dropping the PF for Telion. Also dropping Extra Armor off the Rhinos. Keeping the quad gun too.

I don't see any downside to taking the LRR as a Heavy Support, since I can still start the terms inside it.

Anyone can start in an undedicated transport. So they can start in it. Though there may be some advantages to having a DT, away from just freeing a heavy slot.

3+/4++ with FNP is pretty great and just awesome for the points.
Then a librarian with terminator armour with SS is pretty good in cc, whilst can boost the squad with things like nullzone, which in particular is a neat combo with their weapons.
Chaplain with terminator armour is pretty hardy as well, just more points.

Doesn't bother me which one you give me to fight with, you went for the cheapest, which is fine by me.

[edited because I didnt see the aegis at first]

 Nevelon wrote:

Deuce11 wrote:Wait, how is Cassius AP4? Aren't chappy weapons (whatever they are called) considered power weapons and therefore minimally AP3?

They are called out explicitly in the FAQ as power mauls, so are S+2, AP 4, concussive.

That's right. Didn't remember they were AP 4. That is terrible hahahahaha. Such stupid ass rules changing power weapons the way they did hahahaha GW