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Had a horribly bad 1st game of 6ed last night thats got me thinking that I need to change EVERYTHING in my Blood Angels army pretty damn quick, Mech Assault squads and flamestorm Baals just don't team up as well as they used to. I also fancy a new modelling and painting challenge leading upto a tournament in October, so what would be the ultimate BA build?

I've heard some good things about Sternguard with an Epistolary with Divination. In my opinion, Mephiston has got a completely different use now. He can still kick the snot out of 3+ Armor units but with Divination, he can throw around buffs for gunline units.

My new list is probably going to involve Epistolary's with Divination with honour guard with 4 plasma guns to get re-rolls.

Also I think BA players need to rethink how we do our combat, Death Company are still pretty awesome though.

Some of the old spam builds no longer work as well as they used to. Aside from your mech, I know my DOA lists suffered a LOT from the new 50% reserve restriction.
Death Company definitely got a boost, as did Sanguinary Guard, so trial a couple of games with them if you're interested.

Otherwise, it's become a case of diversifying so that you cover multiple approaches. Take some mech, sure, but take some jump packs too. Also take some heavy fire support - with the changes in power weapons and challenges, there are a few units we really struggle with in assault that proper firing can take down.

Very true SG and DC (not jp imo) both gained some additional use. You need to balance assault with shooting as pure assault isn't what it used to be.

You need to sneak some shooting in, Baal preds can still lay down a large amount of dakka. I would even suggest devastators (they are cheaper then V:SM)

Were flamestorm Baals any good for you before? They suffer from the same issues.

What models do you have?

Mech is no where need dead. It is still pretty strong. Though different tactics are needed, for one cover is both easier to get and worse.

If you want to paint new models I wager you may not have many DC and no stormravens. Both can be nicely competitive.

Flamestorms used to be phenomenal, but didnt work too well against mech inf templars.

I lack anti armour at the moment so I'm tempted by a hs pred and missile launcher Devi squad.

Thinking about including some shooty terminators with cyclones for some mid range dakkadakka, possibly with cyclones and a Libby terminator and sang priest.

Vanguard vets were amazing for the first time ever, so they'll be staying and I love stern-guard so they'll probably be included.

I really want a ton of jump pack troops, so need to find the tipping point between shooting and close combat, although I'm thinking the sgts may end up with power lances as the extra initiative is amazing.

MFletch wrote:Were flamestorm Baals any good for you before? They suffer from the same issues.

What models do you have?

Mech is no where need dead. It is still pretty strong. Though different tactics are needed, for one cover is both easier to get and worse.

If you want to paint new models I wager you may not have many DC and no stormravens. Both can be nicely competitive.

I'm trying to get a list of death company IN stormravens.

Hopefully I can get it to work someday

I've had another couple of games since putting up the initial post with my Flesh tearers.

It wasn't pretty, indeed, so horrible was the game that all of the painting projects I set myself, new terminators and a heavily converted unit on Vanguard Vets have been put on hold, I'm seriously considering re-vamping my guard and playing with a 6 Vendetta/ton of tanks list which while dull to play with will at least have a competitive edge!

If your playing a guy fielding 6 vendettas, I suggest getting new friends. I wouldn't want to play a guy like that.

hell, if it was a local tournament and I matched up against him, I probably wouldn't bother playing him. Just tell him to piss off and go get a drink.

Flyers are not as powerful as people make them out to be. They must move 18" and are limited to a 90 degree turn. They do not have free reign to target anything and everything on the board.

 Amaya wrote:
Flyers are not as powerful as people make them out to be. They must move 18" and are limited to a 90 degree turn. They do not have free reign to target anything and everything on the board.

Unless your playing 6 vendettas. Turn 1, come on the board, with 18 twin linked lascannons alpha strike any and all anti-air weapons, then hover mode it up and blast away at anything left alive.

1) They can't come on until turn 2 and have to roll for that.
2) As soon as they enter hover mode you hit them normally.
3) 6 Vendettas cost nearly 800 points. Even if you're playing at 2500 that is a significant investment. By comparison 3 Venerable Rifleman Dreads and 3 ML Longfang squads are only slightly more. 30 Lootas and 3 Dakkajets are roughly the same cost. You're making Vendettas out as being extremely point efficient. At best your opponent is paying a premium for 9 TL Lascannon shots that are hard for most units to hit.

Horst, you misread - HE'S the one planning on taking the Vendettas. poobah - don't do it!! You don't want to be TFG, do you...?
Tell us what you took and what happened in this latest game, perhaps we can point out what went wrong.

Well, at the 2000 pt level it can be useful to include allies such as IG or Tau providing shooty support.
Frankly, I would play BA more as a counter-strike army since there are better melee armies out there.

Lol, no interest in being TFG at all, I've been gaming for the better part of 30 years now and hate that style of play.

I'm actually seriously considering binning 40k at the moment as a result of all the power gaming and dubious combo's that people are coming up with at the moment and I play in a great gaming club full of nice people.


However, If I hear one more person trying to justify using:
Ghazkull in a Necron army for relentless loota's or adding him to an infiltrating unit of Kommando's with Snikrot....
Or
BA/Space wolf Devi's/longfangs in a Vanilla marine army with a libby with Divination (cos they're cheaper)

I may have to hurt someone.

The Meta of the game has been turned with 6th ed and thats good, it means people are going to have to re-learn how to use their armies. The trouble is rather than embracing their weeknesses and working around it, they're taking allies instead!

Well, I don't see it that way.

The new edition has its advantages by using allies, fortifications, and flyers. The game is now more complete than ever.

Downsides are some of the new rules which I cannot really follow (disembarking from stationary vehicle does not allow a charge, fearless units in cc do not get additional hits if they lose cc, and so on).

BA will have some power builds in the new ed, but MSU seems to be gone and this is good news. The same holds for a DoA army, since the army cannot be held in reserve.

@wuestenfux the club I go to has hosted a successful tournament for the last 10+ years just outside of London and the new rules have caused an awful lot of debate about what will and won't be allowed, the most hotly contested topics.

Allies
Flyers

I think that the new rules are great and obviously there needs to be a bedding in period, maybe I'll stick to friendly fluffy games and stick to WFB as a tournament environment

Ok, had a more positive 40k experience yesterday, think I need to go with a ton of Assault troops MBU's backed up by devi's with missiles and las cannon death and possibly a Vanguard unit (because the actually work now)

Needs a bit of fine tuning but am in my happy place at the moment!

ghpoobah wrote:
Ok, had a more positive 40k experience yesterday, think I need to go with a ton of Assault troops MBU's backed up by devi's with missiles and las cannon death and possibly a Vanguard unit (because the actually work now)

Needs a bit of fine tuning but am in my happy place at the moment!

I use to run assault marine heavy BA, and I didn't seem to have an issue really. The only hit my army took was the changes to FNP, but that isn't too bad all things considered.

 MadMaverick76 wrote:

ghpoobah wrote:
Ok, had a more positive 40k experience yesterday, think I need to go with a ton of Assault troops MBU's backed up by devi's with missiles and las cannon death and possibly a Vanguard unit (because the actually work now)

Needs a bit of fine tuning but am in my happy place at the moment!

I use to run assault marine heavy BA, and I didn't seem to have an issue really. The only hit my army took was the changes to FNP, but that isn't too bad all things considered.

Furious charge got nerfed. This particularly affects an assault based army.

Yeah the furious charge +1I nerf was really bad for BA.

also, the fact that furious charge doesn't work when you charge multiple targets, and you don't get the +1 attack when you charge multiple targets, REALLY hurts. Some of the stupider GW has put out.

FC wasn't too bad, I was a fan of the FNP, but I am happy that my DC are now true CC monsters, which in some respects is a good trade-off. I have finally been able to put DC back into my army.

While DoA has become obsolete, I think that deep striking will be a very viable way to play BA in 6th. The difference is that you have to trade in your jump packs for drop pods.

Drop pods have become way better than they were:
1: Your enemy is forced to deploy stuff
2: You can deploy the guys inside up to 6" away from the pod
3: The enemy is wiped out if he has no units left at the end of a turn

Those three things are HUGE buffs. You will have targets, your enemy will likely willingly give you even more targets, and you will be able to position yourself in optimal firing positions much easier than before.

Blood angels also have access to one of the best dog fighters in the game, giving you the option to fight fliers without bringing in allies. Also don't forget to capture your enemy's aegis gun, a feat drop pod armies are really good at

 MadMaverick76 wrote:
FC wasn't too bad, I was a fan of the FNP, but I am happy that my DC are now true CC monsters, which in some respects is a good trade-off. I have finally been able to put DC back into my army.

How to put the DC into a BA army?

DC with jump packs will be again an option, but it will be rather expensive point-wise.
DC in a Rhino is not really worth due to the new rules for transporting a unit.
DC in a Stormraven seems to be the best solution. Add a DC Dread for cc support and you have a decent cc combo.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 MadMaverick76 wrote:
FC wasn't too bad, I was a fan of the FNP, but I am happy that my DC are now true CC monsters, which in some respects is a good trade-off. I have finally been able to put DC back into my army.

How to put the DC into a BA army?

DC with jump packs will be again an option, but it will be rather expensive point-wise.
DC in a Rhino is not really worth due to the new rules for transporting a unit.
DC in a Stormraven seems to be the best solution. Add a DC Dread for cc support and you have a decent cc combo.

I have usually run with them with JPs and have found them very very survivable. The FNP is great for them to shield the JAS. I will look into the Storm Raven, I am not a big user of flyers, but with the new edition, I may have to evolve.

I'm looking at a ton of max size jump pack units with some drop pod support (stern guard and dreads) with a Vanguard Vet squad Heroic Interventioning for effect.

I think throwing in a couple of flyers isn't a bad idea, but large fast units of Jump troops is great against all of the riflemen dreads that seem to be the "must take" in most lists at the moment, they just can't kill enough men quickly enough, have to see how I get on in my game tonight!

Still not sold on Death company, maybe I'll have to give em a whirl and see....