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Hello, I have a question about Burna Boyz. If they do overwatch shots with their burnas can they use them as power weapons in assault?

Template weapons can't be used in overwatch o.O

Flamers allow D3 auto hits in over watch.

Deepstrike BA wrote:Template weapons can't be used in overwatch o.O

Template weapons allow D3 automatic hits in overwatch...

The burna special rule clearly specifies SHOOTING phase... which means probably RAW means they are fine as overwatch is assault phase... but of course we are applying a 4th edition codex rule to 6th... I suspect a lot of people will 'feel' shooting a burna in overwatch should mean no power weapon.

The Burna description says both profiles cannot be used in the same turn. So if you used the template profile in Overwatch, you cannot use them as power weapons in close combat in the same turn.

Going to grab some popcorn for this one. I foresee a 20 page thread coming. It could go either way since you resolve overwatch like a normal shooting attack but it is done in the assault not shooting phase.

Thanks Redemption, I'll work on reading over the codex rules more carefully.

Redemption wrote:The Burna description says both profiles cannot be used in the same turn. So if you used the template profile in Overwatch, you cannot use them as power weapons in close combat in the same turn.

No it doesn't. The rule doesn't say that at all.

"A burna can be used in the Shooting phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn."

So firing overwatch is not 'shooting phase' so it doesn't actually fill one of the two options (though logically it should)

But I guess the even *MORE* raw is Burnas cannot overwatch because the shooting profile of a BURNA is only allowed to be used during the shooting phase. Outside the shooting phase, the Burna doesn't have a ranged weapon profile at all.

So if You RAI you can OVERWATCH then you should RAI the power weapon clause has been used up.

If yoU RAW that burnas did not fire int he shooting phase... then RAW is the burna doesn't have a ranged weapon profile outside the shooting phase so it may never overwatch.

insaniak wrote:
Template weapons allow D3 automatic hits in overwatch...

Where is this?

Deepstrike BA wrote:

insaniak wrote:
Template weapons allow D3 automatic hits in overwatch...

Where is this?

Wall of Death, pg 52, under the template weapons section

nkelsch wrote:

Redemption wrote:The Burna description says both profiles cannot be used in the same turn. So if you used the template profile in Overwatch, you cannot use them as power weapons in close combat in the same turn.

No it doesn't. The rule doesn't say that at all.

"A burna can be used in the Shooting phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn."

So firing overwatch is not 'shooting phase' so it doesn't actually fill one of the two options (though logically it should)

But I guess the even *MORE* raw is Burnas cannot overwatch because the shooting profile of a BURNA is only allowed to be used during the shooting phase. Outside the shooting phase, the Burna doesn't have a ranged weapon profile at all.

So if You RAI you can OVERWATCH then you should RAI the power weapon clause has been used up.

If yoU RAW that burnas did not fire int he shooting phase... then RAW is the burna doesn't have a ranged weapon profile outside the shooting phase so it may never overwatch.

Aye, you're technically correct of course. But I think most people will allow to fire them as Overwatch. A FAQ/errata would be nice though.

Deepstrike BA wrote:

insaniak wrote:
Template weapons allow D3 automatic hits in overwatch...

Where is this?

Page 53, Wall of Death.

Redemption wrote:
Page 53, Wall of Death.

Saved me a bit of embarrassment, thanks

Shooting attacks do indeed take place in the shooting phase.

But "An Overwatch attack is resloved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's assault phase)...".

So it's a normal shooting attack in the enemy's assault phase. And aside from weapons that are specifically prohibited from firing snap shots or in overwatch, weapons that can be used in the shooting phase can be used in overwatch.

But as Redemption said, you could not use the burnas as template weapons in overwatch and as power weapons in assault in the same player turn. Choose one or the other.

nkelsch wrote:

Redemption wrote:The Burna description says both profiles cannot be used in the same turn. So if you used the template profile in Overwatch, you cannot use them as power weapons in close combat in the same turn.

No it doesn't. The rule doesn't say that at all.

"A burna can be used in the Shooting phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn."

So firing overwatch is not 'shooting phase' so it doesn't actually fill one of the two options (though logically it should)

But I guess the even *MORE* raw is Burnas cannot overwatch because the shooting profile of a BURNA is only allowed to be used during the shooting phase. Outside the shooting phase, the Burna doesn't have a ranged weapon profile at all.

So if You RAI you can OVERWATCH then you should RAI the power weapon clause has been used up.

If yoU RAW that burnas did not fire int he shooting phase... then RAW is the burna doesn't have a ranged weapon profile outside the shooting phase so it may never overwatch.

Nah, burnaz are also template assault 1 weapons as per the apendix. So technically you'd use the profile from the apendix to shoot overwatch (or intercept, if you manage to get that), and the profile from the burna rule (even though it's identical) for shooting during a shooting phase.
The burna rule is not limiting the burna to be exclusively used the way it describes. You can walk forward or backwards, but not both at once. You can still walk sideways.

Jidmah wrote:You can walk forward or backwards, but not both at once.

Redemption wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You can walk forward or backwards, but not both at once.

This is the best counter argument I have ever seen.

FWIW, Celestine's weapon uses the exact same wording as a Burna in regards to firing: may be fired in the shooting phase blah blah blah. The SoB FAQ specifically answers the question of whether she can still make Wall of Death attacks "Yes". I'm aware that's SoB and not Orks, and that Orks did not get a similar question in their FAQ, but I did feel it was worth mentioning from a RAI standpoint. The verbage in the ork book is old, from a time before Overwatch existed. It's not unlikely that GW simply forgot that the verbage was there.

Ahhhh. I miss MJ now. Dang it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think yes. Btw.

nkelsch wrote:
But I guess the even *MORE* raw is Burnas cannot overwatch because the shooting profile of a BURNA is only allowed to be used during the shooting phase. Outside the shooting phase, the Burna doesn't have a ranged weapon profile at all.

100% correct.

nkelsch wrote:
"A burna can be used in the Shooting phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn."

If we do allow burnas to fire overwatch then the "not both in the same turn" will definately prevent them being used as power weapons as they receive the charge.

 time wizard wrote:
Shooting attacks do indeed take place in the shooting phase.

But "An Overwatch attack is resloved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's assault phase)...".

So it's a normal shooting attack in the enemy's assault phase. And aside from weapons that are specifically prohibited from firing snap shots or in overwatch, weapons that can be used in the shooting phase can be used in overwatch.

But as Redemption said, you could not use the burnas as template weapons in overwatch and as power weapons in assault in the same player turn. Choose one or the other.

If the wall of death is resolved LIKE a normal shooting attack, then it doesnt matter what turn its used in, its still acting like a normal shooting attack. So no, you cannot wall of death, and then use them as power weapons after they are assaulted. So you need to decide weather to wall of death, or use the as power weapons. Meaning, the smart Ork player will always wall of death unless the boyz are, in the rare moment, going first in CC. Then do not wall of death, and slice up some Necrons

Strict RAW, no Overwatch. (Id expect a FaQ for this though)

RAI, Id totally let an ork player use it and pick which profile to use in the Overwatch and the other in the assault.