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2000 Pts - Codex: Orks Roster

HQ: Warboss (1#, 155 pts)
1 Warboss, + Attack Squig + Bosspole + Cybork Body + Warbike + Power Klaw )

Elite: Lootas (15#, 225 pts)
15 Lootas,

Elite: Lootas (15#, 225 pts)
15 Lootas,

Fast Attack: Dakkajet (1#, 120 pts)
1 Dakkajet, + TL Supa Shoota x3)

Fast Attack: Dakkajet (1#, 120 pts)
1 Dakkajet,+ TL Supa Shoota x3)

Troops: Nob Bikers (10#, 595 pts)
1 Painboy,
1 Nobz, + Cybork Body + Waaagh! Banner
1 Nobz, + Cybork Body + Power Klaw
1 Nobz, + Cybork Body + Power Klaw
1 Nobz, + Cybork Body
1 Nobz, + Cybork Body
1 Nobz, + Cybork Body
1 Nobz, + Cybork Body
1 Nobz, + Cybork Body
1 Nobz, + Cybork Body

Troops: Gretchin (11#, 40 pts)
10 Gretchin,
1 Runtherd,

Troops: Boyz (30#, 235 pts)
29 Boyz, Big Shoota x3
1 Boyz Nob, + Bosspole + Power Klaw

Troops: Boyz (30#, 235 pts)
29 Boyz, Big Shoota x3
1 Boyz Nob, + Bosspole + Power Klaw

Aegis Defense line

Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.47 For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; 1. Army: Codex: Orks; b-1. Roster Options: Named or Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 - 2)
Elite: 2 (0 - 3)
Troops: 4 (2 - 6)
Fast: 2 (0 - 3)
Heavy: 0 (0 - 3)

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

It's actually a nice list. Big choppas would be nice but I guess you don't have the points.

Way too many nob bikers. They will want a bosspole.

You could bring 2 squads of nob bikers and 2 warboss bikers. if you saved points on the nob bikers and dropped a boys squad. I think this would help you.
The other cool thing I enjoy is using a warboss biker with death koptas.

I assume you ADL has a quadgun as you have the grots.

Lootas would probably be better as 3 units to get three different targets. You can play around with numbers here.
Lootas go really well with kannons, kannons supply st8 for the things st7 tickles.

3 dakkajets are better than 2.

It is good list though you are dependent on the nob bikers working well.

this isnt a nob biker list. run more than 1 nob biker unit and run warbikers and youll have a nob biker list.
if you want to do that drop the gretchin, drop the AGL, drop a unit of boyz, drop the cybork bodies, drop a big shoota from the boyz unit, and drop the lootas down a little bit in size.
you could also drop all, maybe a little more to replace you warboss biker for wazdakka and add 16 warbikers with nob upgrades. youll still have 4 troops, of which, the 2 warbiker units will be fast aggressive scoring units and can support the nob biker death star if necessary.
nob bikers i believe follow the mantra of land raiders, "1 is a good/huge target, 2 is great, 3 is a waist of points"

MFletch wrote:
Way too many nob bikers. They will want a bosspole.

You could bring 2 squads of nob bikers and 2 warboss bikers. if you saved points on the nob bikers and dropped a boys squad. I think this would help you.
The other cool thing I enjoy is using a warboss biker with death koptas.

I assume you ADL has a quadgun as you have the grots.

Lootas would probably be better as 3 units to get three different targets. You can play around with numbers here.
Lootas go really well with kannons, kannons supply st8 for the things st7 tickles.

3 dakkajets are better than 2.

It is good list though you are dependent on the nob bikers working well.

"way too many nob bikers" the list above has too little nob bikers for a nob biker list and S7 doesnt "tickle" it auto wrecks majority of the time. do the math, D3 shots with 10 or more lootas and your going get enough shots to hit a little less than half on average and your going to glance enough times, on average, to glance a vehicle to death with whatever pens you add on top of that.

Way too many nob bikers in one unit. 2 units with the same number bikers would be cool with me, as long as they are both scoring.

s7 wrecks the majority of the time, which why it is nice to bring st8. Av13 is a nightmare if you do the maths. Especially with quantum shields, it is nice to try to get a pen.

Also FNP or multiwound MEQ, st7 ap4 tickles whereas st8 ap3 is a straight knock out.

Bring a range of firepower, so you can choose what to hit each enemy unit with.

For a nob biker unit you want that many so you can do wound shinanigans. You have 20 wounds total and you have a 4+,4+,5+ for all of them. You can dump alot of rounds into them and they keep coming.
It doesnt matter any more if you pen. You can glance a tank to death, 3 glances is all you need majority of the time due to HPs. AV 13 is only tough if you go up against guard.
As for meq infantry the deffguns force them to roll multiple dice forcing them to miss saves. With kannons you only have 3 shots and only those 3 from one battery.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
For a nob biker unit you want that many so you can do wound shinanigans. You have 20 wounds total and you have a 4+,4+,5+ for all of them. You can dump alot of rounds into them and they keep coming.
It doesnt matter any more if you pen. You can glance a tank to death, 3 glances is all you need majority of the time due to HPs. AV 13 is only tough if you go up against guard.
As for meq infantry the deffguns force them to roll multiple dice forcing them to miss saves. With kannons you only have 3 shots and only those 3 from one battery.

I am little confused to some of this, if you can please clarify I would be much obliged

You play around with wounds with any number of nob bikers, less the better really as they can better hide behind a warboss.
The issue with having a third of your points in one unit is that you are gambling on them actually doing well. They can only attack unit per turn and they have weaknesses. Any weaknesses is a major issue when you spend that many points.
Being assaulted by grey knights and vindicators are two huge common problems for them, if you are looking for weaknesses.

Kannons are better at taking out av13 then lootas. Kannons are better taking out certain MEQ. I am not saying take pure kannons but just take a mix, then choose different targets.

Ok, why would you hide the bikes behind the boss? and haveing less would mean less wound shinanigans. and yea, them kannons would be a little better at av13, but by 1 andyour shooting 3 shots at most with guards man BS, or you could have a crap ton of shots, quite a few hits, and then a good chance to glance stuff to death. and dont quantom shields go down with a GLANCE or a pin? and why would they be any more suceptible to grey knights then others? they are T:5, have feel no pain which dont go away till instent death, and i dont remember any grey knights being S:10. the nobz in turn will probably kill quite a few of them in turn. plus, if you are getting assaulted, something went wrong.

MFletch wrote:

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
For a nob biker unit you want that many so you can do wound shinanigans. You have 20 wounds total and you have a 4+,4+,5+ for all of them. You can dump alot of rounds into them and they keep coming.
It doesnt matter any more if you pen. You can glance a tank to death, 3 glances is all you need majority of the time due to HPs. AV 13 is only tough if you go up against guard.
As for meq infantry the deffguns force them to roll multiple dice forcing them to miss saves. With kannons you only have 3 shots and only those 3 from one battery.

I am little confused to some of this, if you can please clarify I would be much obliged

You play around with wounds with any number of nob bikers, less the better really as they can better hide behind a warboss.
The issue with having a third of your points in one unit is that you are gambling on them actually doing well. They can only attack unit per turn and they have weaknesses. Any weaknesses is a major issue when you spend that many points.
Being assaulted by grey knights and vindicators are two huge common problems for them, if you are looking for weaknesses.

Kannons are better at taking out av13 then lootas. Kannons are better taking out certain MEQ. I am not saying take pure kannons but just take a mix, then choose different targets.

before i explain, i have to ask, have you read 6th ed, more specifically the rules for bikers?


you want "more" simply because they can soak up a lot of rounds and keep on coming due to their automatic 4+ cover from the bikes exhaust cloud special, their 4+ armor save due to the warbike, 5+ feel no pain save due to pain boy upgrade, and because nobz have 2 wounds a piece.
yes vindicator when they can be nasty, but you still get a 4+ auto cover save because the demolisher cannon on the vindicator doesnt have "ignore cover" in its profile. hence why stated, "4+ cover,4+ armor,5+feel no pain or 4+,4+,5+". and no, a maxed out effective biker unit can be made for roughly 1/4 of 2000pts leaving 1000 points to purchase plenty of other units. we're talking about orks, everything is dirt cheap compared to other armies.

with greyknights, yes, they can be nasty against nob bikers, but this is true for anything going against greyknights. greyknights dont create weaknesses for nob bikers, they simply present obsticles.
"They can only attack unit per turn and they have weaknesses. Any weaknesses is a major issue when you spend that many points." that statement is void all together.
the advatage though, of greyknights vs orks, is in numbers either it be models or sheer amount of shots fired forcing multiple armor saves then forcing failed saves then forcing wounds. this is not to imply shooting it out with greyknights as the main strategy because if you try to out shoot meq as your main tactic you fail.

as for hiding behind the warboss with a small unit of nob bikers, first off, when that unit shoots it means less shots, less shots at BS2 means no compensation in hits for poor BS, less hits means less chance of wounds inflicted, resulting in poor effectiveness. when this small nob biker unit gets into combat its not bringing its full potential, this means less models by the time you get to the assault, less attacks for hammer of wrath special rule, less models to absorb overwatch, less attacks on the charge to compensate for poor initiative, less attacks results in less hits, less hits results in less wounds, less wounds results in combat loss.

secondly, hiding behind the warboss with a small unit of nob bikers, that went away when 6th came out. if you put your best HQ or character or model, whatever it may be, it takes the wounds first due to the change in 6th ed wound allocation. you now have to take wounds from the front and only the models that are seen by line of sight can take wounds.
so now because of these changes your warboss that you want to put in front has to take the wounds first. you can look out sir with your other nobz but since you have so little you can only do it as many times that a small nob biker unit provides; while a large and preferably maxed out nob biker unit can look out sir and provide many more wound shenanigans than a small unit.
to counter this you but your IC or PK nobz in the middle so they dont die before you get the chance to use them in close combat. you want to assault with them and not without them and you dont want them to take wounds from overwatch, but still want them in range for the assault to swing their attacks.

now for lootas vs kannons, both are effective but kannons have 36" range compared to 48" range of deffgun lootas and less shots per unit, plus if you take out the crew of the big gun the gun is removed as well making them less survivable.
in the case of this list's 1 unit of lootas at 15 strong vs a battery of kannons at 3 strong.
15 lootas on average will score a 2 shots a piece with D3 shots. scoring on average 1.390 HPs removed from AV13 armor. if the lootas roll above average shots with 3 shots a peice at D3 shots theyll score 2.502 HPs removed from AV13 armor and if they roll above average or hot then its an auto wreck.
kannons using shell rounds firing all 3 shots will only score .500 HPs removed on average and only a 4.167% chance of vehicle destruction.

hope that clarified everything.

 maxpower3579 wrote:
Ok, why would you hide the bikes behind the boss? and haveing less would mean less wound shinanigans. and yea, them kannons would be a little better at av13, but by 1 andyour shooting 3 shots at most with guards man BS, or you could have a crap ton of shots, quite a few hits, and then a good chance to glance stuff to death. and dont quantom shields go down with a GLANCE or a pin? and why would they be any more suceptible to grey knights then others? they are T:5, have feel no pain which dont go away till instent death, and i dont remember any grey knights being S:10. the nobz in turn will probably kill quite a few of them in turn. plus, if you are getting assaulted, something went wrong.

Fair one with the kannons, I too would back lootas over kannons. The extra range and volume of shots is definitely worth it despite the slightly lower strength. I think he was referring to the fact that all grey knights have force weapons, so they don't need strength 10 to cause instant death. However, if they use their force weapons they won't be able to use hammerhand, so I think the nob bikers would still do fine in combat.

Hiding behind the boss is a pretty good plan though, the 2+ LoS is alot better for wound allocation shenanigans than the 4+ between each other that regular nobs get. That way you'd need to take 10 unsaved wounds before losing a biker. Fair enough that you want to get more guys into close combat/shooting range, but it will help your survivability

And quantum shields only go down on a pen.

amasokka88 wrote:

Hiding behind the boss is a pretty good plan though, the 2+ LoS is alot better for wound allocation shenanigans than the 4+ between each other that regular nobs get. That way you'd need to take 10 unsaved wounds before losing a biker. Fair enough that you want to get more guys into close combat/shooting range, but it will help your survivability

yes, a 2+ LoS is better than a 4+, but you can only fail that 3 times and your 4+,4+,5+ saves against a whole turn of shooting before your warlord is dead giving them the "warlord kill" VP, so... not that good.
also, if your taking 10 unsaved wounds thats 5 bikers dead. so, if that "helps survivability" then cheers.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:

amasokka88 wrote:

Hiding behind the boss is a pretty good plan though, the 2+ LoS is alot better for wound allocation shenanigans than the 4+ between each other that regular nobs get. That way you'd need to take 10 unsaved wounds before losing a biker. Fair enough that you want to get more guys into close combat/shooting range, but it will help your survivability

yes, a 2+ LoS is better than a 4+, but you can only fail that 3 times and your 4+,4+,5+ saves against a whole turn of shooting before your warlord is dead giving them the "warlord kill" VP, so... not that good.
also, if your taking 10 unsaved wounds thats 5 bikers dead. so, if that "helps survivability" then cheers.

People are trying to give you advice so if that annoys you fine, but I don't think getting defensive is a mature answer to these suggestions. Honestly if you take things this personally I'm not sure why you're posting on this forum, especially in the army lists section.

Since you can allocate the wounds to anyone within 6" then if you have 10 nob bikers you can allocate a wound to each one with LoS before removing one. Hence, survivability. Learn how to read. And on average your biker boss will have to take 18 wounds before failing three look out sir's, so if you're facing an army that puts on alot of wounds i.e. dark eldar venomspam, then don't put the biker boss in front. It's a legitimate tactic, and there is no reason to be so condescending when you don't care for a tactic that is suggested to you. If you don't like it, don't use it.

fyi i didnt start this thread so im not looking for advice. if i find some ill use it and if not no big deal.

if i wasnt being mature about suggestions i would directly attack you instead of the point you made and say that your wrong instead of stating what may be better tactica/list building or what is better tactica/list building.
look above and you can see an example of how someone simply asked if i could clarify what they were confused about and i in turn obliged. i did not specifically attack them or you.
as for your post that i quoted i was pointing out that unsaved wounds are different from allocating them, if want to jump to the conclusion im attacking you, then thats on you.

not everything that people say on these forums is directly hostile.

moving on...

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
fyi i didnt start this thread so im not looking for advice. if i find some ill use it and if not no big deal.

if i wasnt being mature about suggestions i would directly attack you instead of the point you made and say that your wrong instead of stating what may be better tactica/list building or what is better tactica/list building.
look above and you can see an example of how someone simply asked if i could clarify what they were confused about and i in turn obliged. i did not specifically attack them or you.
as for your post that i quoted i was pointing out that unsaved wounds are different from allocating them, if want to jump to the conclusion im attacking you, then thats on you.

moving on...

I don't believe you were attacking me, merely being condescending to people that you disagree with. Fair enough to make your point, no need for sarcastic asides once you're finished.

And my point still stands, if you have 10 nob bikers, as the OP has, you can take 10 unsaved wounds on them through allocation with LoS. This does help survivability, as without LoSing those wounds then 10 unsaved wounds would indeed equal 5 dead nob bikers. Whether he wants to stick with the unit of 10 nob bikers is up to him but I believe that if he wants to keep them then this would help keep them alive. Unsaved wounds are different from allocating them, obvious, but fair, but as they all have the same save he can allocate wounds on a 2+ after failing the saves, and so has an 82% chance of shifting all of them on.

For a nob biker list I'mnot sure why so few lootas and why only 1 squad and why the ork boyz at all? Personally with 30 lootas id go with 3 mobs but at 2k why not take the full 45 then 2 biker squads and then fill with stuff like the jets and grots?

A cunning warboss as well would manuever to charge directly into his Hammer/storm shield guys first. Up front thats 10, I10 hammer of wrath hit's he'll have to shrug off, before the others get to pile in at I6.

Either way there's gonna be some killing going on.

You have declare look out sir before you roll your saves.

If all have same saves you declare look out sir after the saves are rolled.

p26 LoS. you declare the LoS then resolve it against the chosen model if successful. if you roll your saves first your taking your saves as the better option before LoS there by canceling your option for Los.

Gutstuf you can only los when a wound is allocated to a character model. Check the saves section for when this happens if a unit all has the same saves (after you roll saves being the answer).

point taken on LoS.

Force weapon and hammerhead can happen when attached to an IC? I think at least with a librarian.
Nob bikers die quick enough against that sort of attack.

Now this is just a weakness. My point is if they were 2 squads of nob bikers, you would hope you could avoid the assault with at least one squad. Or avoid vindicators, or avoid the grey knights in a stormtalon et cetera.

LoS with the warboss is explained above by someone, cheers.

Mathhammer out the difference between lootas and kannons against av13. You can glance to death necron barges but it is a lot easier to get a single pen. then glance to death.
Not that I think mathhammer is a good argument, other things need to be took into account like kannons are tougher and are less likely to run off the board.

What does the list look like now?

MFletch wrote:
Force weapon and hammerhead can happen when attached to an IC? I think at least with a librarian.
Nob bikers die quick enough against that sort of attack.

Now this is just a weakness. My point is if they were 2 squads of nob bikers, you would hope you could avoid the assault with at least one squad. Or avoid vindicators, or avoid the grey knights in a stormtalon et cetera.

LoS with the warboss is explained above by someone, cheers.

Mathhammer out the difference between lootas and kannons against av13. You can glance to death necron barges but it is a lot easier to get a single pen. then glance to death.
Not that I think mathhammer is a good argument, other things need to be took into account like kannons are tougher and are less likely to run off the board.

What does the list look like now?

as stated above in an earlier post.
lootas vs kannons, both are effective but kannons have 36" range compared to 48" range deffgun lootas and kannons have less shots per unit, plus if you take out the crew of the big gun the gun is removed as well making them less survivable.
in the case of this list's 1 unit of lootas at 15 strong vs a battery of kannons at 3 strong.
15 lootas on average will roll 2 shots a piece with D3 shots. scoring on average 1.390 HPs removed from AV13 armor. if the lootas roll above average shots with 3 shots a peice at D3 shots theyll score 2.502 HPs removed from AV13 armor and if they roll above average or hot to see how many glances, then its an auto wreck.
kannons using shell rounds firing all 3 shots will only score .500 HPs removed on average and only a 4.167% chance of vehicle destruction.

taking a look back at the the army list for this thread, they are taking 2 full units of deff gun lootas at 15 strong. this then doubles the averages above for deff guns and increases the removal of HPs if both units shoot at the same target there by increasing vehicle destruction.

"You can glance to death necron barges but it is a lot easier to get a single pen. then glance to death.
Not that I think mathhammer is a good argument, other things need to be took into account like kannons are tougher and are less likely to run off the board."

if you can glance the vehicle to death it auto wrecks. its just as effective as pens. and if both unit types are compared the lootas have higher survivability by high numbers and being well placed in cover with high visibility. yes, the kannons increase their survivability doing the same, but you can target their crew and kill their crew easy causing the gun to be removed from play.

I do not wish to derail this thread any further.

60 points for 3 kannons (without ammo runts? just why?)
225 15 lootas

Yes, 225 points out perform 60 points.
Just to add you should always have ammo runts. Add this and the points then you'll see what I mean. Not that av13 is the only target which is better targeted with kannons.
The moral being do not waste loota rounds on av13, if possible.

You other point about lootas being harder to kill is a bit extreme, I think most would probably disagree but I cover the finer points.
Essentially big guns are tougher. Lootas being fearless is pretty sweet but pretty expensive, as I have found the major weakness of them is them running off the board. Then weirdly in cc lootas can nearly hold their own, or back off and snap shot, this is a lot better at
Conventional wisdom says 10 toughness 7(before the kannons stop firing) is harder than even 15 toughness 4 guys, this is only half the story.
The moral is always take protection for units at the back, most armies will have some mobility and hit you from behind or in cc or with flamers et cetera, if you force your enemy to shoot at orky guns through cover the battle is mostly won.

?