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Okay after playing around with some other things I came up with this,
definitely on the small side but in play testing has proved very resilient

35 pts

P Butcher
Juggernaut
Juggernaut
War Dog
Man-o-War Drakhun w dismount
Man-O-War Kovnik
Destroyer
Destroyer

that is the list as it stands, I have considered dropping the jugs and the wardog for Beast and two man hunters
Comments, concerns and any problems you forsee would be greatly appreciated

cheers
Papasmurf

Way too many jacks for a focus 6 caster to power. Iron Fangs are solid with pButch under feet and fury. 2 jacks is about the limit for most solid Khador lists.

There are only two 'jacks in Butcher's battlegroup; the two Destroyers look like they are Marshalled to the Kovnik.

I've been using the Kovnik a bit recently and he's a lot of fun but not super reliable; that CMD check for the Drive fails at the worst time every time, and having it fail for not just one but two Destroyers would be pretty devastating.

Yes the Kovnik marshalls the two destroyers, dropping one of the destroyers frees up some points for iron fangs

thoughts on beast rather than 2 jugs?

will still be playing with the list so any other comments are welcomed

Cheers
Papasmurf

At 35 points Reach becomes important, so Running Beast instead of 2 Juggers is not a bad idea. I agree with the assessment of 2 Destroyers on the Kovnik... very very risky. I'd go with 1. That opens up a huge amount of points.

With your current build infantry could be problematic... consider Doom Reavers with UA. On the feat turn they will be rolling 5d6 on the charge, that's just nasty. They are fast and if your opponent does not put them away on turn 2, even 2-3 can really cripple lots of models due to beserk.

You'd still have points to use maybe 3? Consider Yuri the Axe. Yuri's thresher is brutal... add in Butcher feat + Reavers and you will disable models with Arm 18-20, leaving a nice charge lane for the Drakhun

You might want to try a Koldun Lord (Evil Santa) instead of the Kovnik. It gives you alot more flexibility than the drive does.

i would say drop both of the destroyers for a unit of doom reavers with UA and a kodiak

I'd say lose one of each 'jack. Keep the Destroyer and a Juggy. Juggy goes smashy and can to the neater power attacks, and the Destroyer is great for pricks with Stealth.

I don't care if I auto miss, I scatter the right way and still blow your ass up.

I've found the Great Bears to be a beauty addition to the Butcher. Tougher than Doom Reavers, and you don't have to worry about the stupid gits chopping each other to bits if something happens to the UA.

Actually with the change to Backswing, you do have to worry about them chopping each other to bits.

I have always had great luck with pButcher running tons of infantry. He really cant support more than one jack very well. Yes he can boost atk and dmg rolls, but, he doesnt have the focus to buy those extra attacks and without them, those warjacks will always and forever be running light.

I have had alot of great games with him running a WGDS, IFPs, AKs, and manhunters. As much as I hate to run the same models over and over again, the greatbears really should be auto include for him. He has the support they want and they hit like a ton of bricks.

Increasing your model count will make his feat that much more effective.

My 2 cents would be to drop all the jacks and the kovnik. Run Beast or another comparable heavy beatstick (spriggan maybe, or torch) and load you on the WGDS and IFPs and pack in some manhunters and yuri the axe.

Here is a bit of food for thought; A squad of IFPs with Fury on them hit with P+S16. Add in butcher's feat and they are effectively hitting as hard as a jugg on avg rolls (16+3d6/4d6 on a charge). You get 7 of these for the same points as the jugg (min+UA).

System: Warmachine
Faction: Khador
Casters: 1/1
Points: 25/25
The Butcher of Khardov (*6pts)
* Beast-09 (11pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich (2pts)

I will try this 25pt list tomorrow. What do you think about this list?

Try it out. I would suggest not running both the kayazy AND the wgds as they are both high def/low arm units. This will make your entire list vulnerable to AOE and spells like ashes to ashes and chain lightning. Also keep in mind that you can have only one iron flesh out at a time. Personally, I would replace one of the units with a squad of Iron fang pikemen and their UA. They are the opposite of the wgds and kayazy in that they have high armor but lower DEF. They also hit harder and make for great front line infantry since they can engage from so far away. It willhelp your list crack high arm targets easier and deal with shooting better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You may also consider running assault kommandos and kayazy. Assault commandos make three attacks when they charge but their attacks are low POW. Butcher buffs them tho and with his feat granted each of the three attacks bonus damage, you will end up getting a ton of mileage out of them thatmeans on butchers feat turn, a max squad of AKs could gain a total of 30 extra damage dice from butcher's feat. Add on fury and the damage die from charging and they will end up wrecking warjacks easily.

The list works very fine. i have won two games, against everblight and menoth.

I don't have IFP oder AK yet. But today i have bought them, and will try your combo.

Yesterday i lost my first game with this list. It was against a pVlad Heavy Jack List. It happens what KingKodo predicted. There was to less damage output against the heavy jacks and my kayazys got lost in a forrest.

but why does i need high armor when there is high def? With high def i don't need any armor, because my enemy don't hit...

nicci wrote:

but why does i need high armor when there is high def? With high def i don't need any armor, because my enemy don't hit...

AoE scattering will bypass your defense. Slamming a lower defense model into it will bypass your defense. Being knocked down sets your defense to 5. Things that autohit bypass your defense. In other words, there are alot of ways around high defense. High defense is good but don't go all in on it.

Ronin is on target.
The more you play with the Assassins you'll start to see people use the work around to get around high defense. There are a lot more auto hitting attacks in the game now, there are also a lot of casters who can strip away iron flesh fairly easily, models with blessed weapons, etc.

The Butcher list you have looks fairly solid, but at 25 points, to me the inclusion of both WG & KA is somewhat redundant. I think the WG is great for the point level, maybe try out the Eliminators with something else mixed in instead of the KA

First at all i will try to import IFP instead of KA. But KA with mini-feat is a very good casterkiller.

Then i will try to put in eliminators, bears and MH/Gorman/Dog instead of IFP.

We always play with one forrests on evry side, so pathfinder and/or Relentless Charge is a good choise.

I thought a bit about my 25pt list. For With scenaro play, WGDS and IPF was a bit to slow.

I want to try a faster list, to make pressure with capturing the objectives and get a gap for caster kill.
Can I handle heavy jack listes with this list?

I want to try the list below, but i am not sure about the widowmakers.
On the other hand i can add a fenris a kick the escort and the eliminators.

Points: 25/25
The Butcher of Khardov (*6pts)
* Spriggan (10pts)
* War dog (1pts)
Doom Reavers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Greylord Escort (2pts)
Great Bears of Gallowswood (5pts)
Kayazy Eliminators (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)

In my opinion, pButcher is great when running a bunch of the cheaper 'jacks.

I've had pretty great success running (at 35 pts) pButcher with 2x Juggernaughts, 1x Kodiak, 1x Berserker w/ fast, autonomous infantry (Kayazy are good) rounding out the points.

Yeah, you only get 6 Focus, but Full Throttle on a charge turn makes them all super efficient, and attacking with the Juggernaught(s) before hitting with the Kodiak can potentially set up a nice 'auto Chain Attack: throw" from the Kodiak.

 Jin wrote:
In my opinion, pButcher is great when running a bunch of the cheaper 'jacks.

I've had pretty great success running (at 35 pts) pButcher with 2x Juggernaughts, 1x Kodiak, 1x Berserker w/ fast, autonomous infantry (Kayazy are good) rounding out the points.

Yeah, you only get 6 Focus, but Full Throttle on a charge turn makes them all super efficient, and attacking with the Juggernaught(s) before hitting with the Kodiak can potentially set up a nice 'auto Chain Attack: throw" from the Kodiak.

That would be the other style to play with pButcher. But i think a heavy jack list , like yours, st more effective with pVlad. Because of Boundless Charge and his feat.

I am not sure about using Spriggan. In my first thougts i wanted to inculde a Berserker, because of his low Focus and Point cost. But I think I would need a support against heavy jack and stealth lists. So I included Spriggan.