Idiot Politician (R, MO) talks about "Legitimate rape"

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**Melissia**

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/19/missouri-republican-claims-legitimate-rape-rarely-results-in-pregnancy/?hpt=hp_c1

Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

(CNN) – U.S. Rep. Todd Akin, who won Missouri's GOP Senate primary earlier this month and will face incumbent Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill in November's general election, said Sunday that he misspoke when he claimed "legitimate rape" rarely resulted in pregnancy.

Answering a question about whether or not he thought abortion should be legal in the case of rape, Akin explained his opposition by citing unnamed bodily responses he said prevented pregnancy.

"First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that's really rare," Akin said of rape-induced pregnancy in an interview with KTVI. A clip of the interview was posted online by the liberal super PAC American Bridge.

"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," Akin continued. He did not provide an explanation for what constituted "legitimate rape."

He added: "But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something. You know I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."

In a statement Sunday, Akin wrote that he misspoke in the interview. He maintained his opposition to abortion for victims of rape.

"In reviewing my off-the-cuff remarks, it's clear that I misspoke in this interview and it does not reflect the deep empathy I hold for the thousands of women who are raped and abused every year," Akin wrote. "Those who perpetrate these crimes are the lowest of the low in our society and their victims will have no stronger advocate in the Senate to help ensure they have the justice they deserve."

"I recognize that abortion, and particularly in the case of rape, is a very emotionally charged issue," Akin continued. "But I believe deeply in the protection of all life and I do not believe that harming another innocent victim is the right course of action. I also recognize that there are those who, like my opponent, support abortion and I understand I may not have their support in this election."

Statistics on pregnancies that result from rape are difficult to produce, since rape is a crime that often goes unreported. The Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network, along with Planned Parenthood, each estimate that 5% of rapes lead to pregnancy. A 1996 study from the Medical University of South Carolina found the same percentage, adding that 32,101 pregnancies occurred annually from rape.

Akin, a six-term U.S. congressman, touted his socially conservative values on the primary campaign trail, and gained the support of 2008 presidential candidate and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee. He was one of the first members of Congress to join the Tea Party Caucus in 2010 and has easily won re-election in recent years.

The lawmaker raised a notable $2.2 million this cycle, as of July 18.

Akin - who sits on the House Science, Space and Technology Committee - has long held a hard-line stance on abortion. He is opposed to abortions in all circumstances, and has said he also opposes the morning after pill, which he equates to abortion.

McCaskill, who is up against Akin in November's general election, almost immediately struck upon her opponent's comments Sunday, writing on Twitter: "As a woman & former prosecutor who handled 100s of rape cases, I'm stunned by Rep Akin's comments about victims this AM."

She later released a statement condemning her rival as "ignorant about the emotional and physical trauma brought on by rape."

“The ideas that Todd Akin has expressed about the serious crime of rape and the impact on its victims are offensive," she continued.

McCaskill's website also splashed Akin's comments across the homepage, and included a link where supporters could donate money to McCaskill's campaign.

Republicans consider McCaskill, first elected in 2006, highly vulnerable in her re-election bid for a second term. Ahead of the GOP primary, a Mason-Dixon poll showed the senator falling behind each of the three main GOP competitors in hypothetical match-ups among registered Missouri voters.

A spokeswoman for Mitt Romney wrote that the presumptive GOP presidential nominee and his running mate, U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, did not share Akin's sentiments on rape.

"Governor Romney and Congressman Ryan disagree with Mr. Akin's statement, and a Romney-Ryan administration would not oppose abortion in instances of rape," Romney campaign spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg wrote.

CNN's Ashley Killough, Kevin Liptak and Rachel Streitfeld contributed to this report.

All this in order to try to push for their ban on abortions no matter the situation (including if both the mother AND child will die as a result of the birth).

**Monster Rain**

Pro-life republicans? I'll be dipped.

**LoneLictor**

I couldn't help think of Rorschach when I read about this guy. He's so insane and disconnected from reality; he genuinely believes that he's helping the world and he's one of the last pillars of moral virtue, when in fact he's just some nutter who's inflicting more hurt than anything else.

**Kovnik Obama**

Melissia wrote:

All this in order to try to push for their ban on abortions no matter the situation (including if both the mother AND child will die as a result of the birth).

Okay here's me about to get flamed unto hell.

You know my stance on abortion. I do think the a priori moral thing to do in a rape case would be to carry the child to it's birth. I say a priori because I wouldn't dare blame anyone for having an abortion ever, and even less in such a case. I can't put myself in place of the expectant mother of her raper's child, but still, that kid shouldn't lose it's right to exist because his father is an utter donkey-cave.

The death thing is ridiculous tho.

**Orlanth**

I really think the 'legitimate rape' thing needs to be properly defined before we can have a proper go at this topic.

If the politician concerned didn't explain what he was alleged to have said perhaps it was a slip of the tongue, an embellishment by hostile media or just something misheard.

There may be a simple honest explanation other than 'he literally meant what he said'.

**Melissia**

What he was trying to say was that if you got pregnant, you weren't raped, because if a woman is raped her body doesn't allow itself to be pregnant through some unknown (read: made up) biological means. Which is a vicious, disgusting lie, but that's what a lot of people apparently believe.

**AegisGrimm**

"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," Akin continued. He did not provide an explanation for what constituted "legitimate rape."

He added: "But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something. You know I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."

What he was trying to say was that if you got pregnant, you weren't raped, because if a woman is raped her body doesn't allow itself to be pregnant through some unknown (read: made up) biological means. Which is a vicious, disgusting lie, but that's what a lot of people apparently believe.

I agree. Does he seriously think the a woman's body will react to a rapists sperm like some kind of immune response and destroy the potential fetus? He's a high school grad, right? Because that's the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

**Melissia**

Yes, that is what he is saying.

**Kovnik Obama**

Not trying to defend him here, not at all, but I've heard that the consequences of sexual pleasure did boost the chance of pregnancy (my sex psy class is far away so please correct me if I'm wrong).

Of course that doesn't mean there's no chance of pregnancy if there's no pleasure.

**AegisGrimm**

No, not really. If there's no egg already present in the womb(of fallopian tubes), the best mind-shattering sex on the planet isn't going to get a woman pregnant. It's just biology, and timing.

**Orlanth**

Melissia wrote:
What he was trying to say was that if you got pregnant, you weren't raped, because if a woman is raped her body doesn't allow itself to be pregnant through some unknown (read: made up) biological means. Which is a vicious, disgusting lie, but that's what a lot of people apparently believe.

You sure

"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," Akin continued. He did not provide an explanation for what constituted "legitimate rape."

Its ambiguous, and even the article claims such. I think there is room to suggest he was misreported misheard or garbled his words.

said Sunday that he misspoke when he claimed "legitimate rape" rarely resulted in pregnancy.

This supports it. I think there is reason to stop now and await an explanation. I dont think he should suffer the same ramifications for a tongue twister than if he actually thinks what your interpretation says he thinks.

He is a currently serving Senator right, not a new candidate. Assuming the worst, who is the bigger joke Senator Todd Akin or the voting populace of Missouri?

**KalashnikovMarine**

This feth head is on the HOUSE SCIENCES community!?

Wow, just wow. Pro-life is one thing, but this is lunacy.

**Melissia**

Kovnik Obama wrote:
Not trying to defend him here, not at all, but I've heard that the consequences of sexual pleasure did boost the chance of pregnancy (my sex psy class is far away so please correct me if I'm wrong).

Of course that doesn't mean there's no chance of pregnancy if there's no pleasure.

The ovulation portion of the menstrual cycle is triggered by luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone, which are released by the pituitary gland as part of the cycle. Ovulation lasts for several days every cycle (and not every cycle is the same length, before you assume it's one month), and during this period sexual activity, voluntary or otherwise, can result in fertilization.

Orlanth wrote:
Its ambiguous

No.

No, it is not. I'm not stupid enough to believe that.

**Orlanth**

Melissia wrote:

Orlanth wrote:
Its ambiguous
No.

No, it is not. I'm not stupid enough to believe that.

Yes its ambiguous. The article confirms this: He did not provide an explanation for what constituted "legitimate rape."

Nor can we assume that he meant that females will reliably abort a pregnancy through rape: If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down
So of itself it is no firm guide to policy of termination of foetuses caused by rape. Consequently as the belief is at most in a tendency for foetuses to be aborted by the mother natural processes then we cannot assume what any resulting political policy would be without further clarification.

We should also check to see if there is any truth to his words. Is an unwanted foetus statistically more likely to miscarry? Do we know either way.

The whole comment is ambiguous and so mind boggling stupid if it is to be taken at face value that its fair to allow the Senator the opportunity to clarify.

thread title wrote:
Republicans talk about "Legitimate rape"

I also challenge the loaded thread title though.

I very much doubt this idea is Republican party doctrine, but the alleged opinions of one man, if that.

You sure you aren't clutching at this, wanting it to be confirmed as to be taken literally, because it may damage Republican prospects in the upcoming elections?

**Melissia**

Orlanth wrote:
I very much doubt this idea is Republican party doctrine, but the alleged opinions of one man

Attacking women and women's rights has been a Republican party favorite tactic for decades.

A misunderstanding of the female body is also disturbingly common.

**djones520**

Orlanth wrote:
I do challenge the loaded thread title though.

I very much doubt this idea is Republican party doctrine, but the alleged opinions of one man, if that

Bingo, plenty of title alterations lately to go with an more "neutral" tone, when this title slaps all republicans with the words of one man.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:
Orlanth wrote:
I very much doubt this idea is Republican party doctrine, but the alleged opinions of one man
Attacking women and women's rights has been a Republican party favorite tactic for decades.

A misunderstanding of the female body is also disturbingly common.

Oh that is a load of crap. Republicans are not attacking women, they're trying to defend unborn children. They feel the life in the womb as being the more important thing.

**Melissia**

djones520 wrote:
Oh that is a load of crap. Republicans are not attacking women

Yes they are, all the goddamend time. For example, quite a damned few Republicans, even ones on this very forum, argued that effectively "You're a slut if you use birth control!" Even if you're using it for medical reasons to control your menstrual cycle.

**Kovnik Obama**

AegisGrimm wrote:
No, not really. If there's no egg already present in the womb(of fallopian tubes), the best mind-shattering sex on the planet isn't going to get a woman pregnant. It's just biology, and timing.

I know that, i'm not slow. I was simply told that female orgasm had a positive impact on the possibility of fecondation. Since I'm not finding anything on it right now, I'll assume that was just earsay and bs.

**Melissia**

Or for that matter, nevermind the stereotypical "welfare mother" that Republicans love ranting about, because oh no, how DARE someone who takes three jobs while trying to raise four kids accept some government help. Or the constant attack by Republican evangelists on any woman who works for a living, bashing them for not staying at home watching the kids-- how DARE a man do that. Or the fact that almost all of these attacks are combined with claims of sexual promiscuity and personal insults.

I get called a "feminazi" because I say women need a greater presence in the military as part of our civic duty (equal rights means equal responsibility after all). And that's one of the nicer things that Republicans gladly call me for merely expressing my views on women's issues, and I'm not exactly moving to deny men any rights here (hell, I'm all for equality in the courtroom regarding divorce and custody battles).

**Orlanth**

Kovnik Obama wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:
No, not really. If there's no egg already present in the womb(of fallopian tubes), the best mind-shattering sex on the planet isn't going to get a woman pregnant. It's just biology, and timing.

I know that, i'm not slow. I was simply told that female orgasm had a positive impact on the possibility of ovulation. Since I'm not finding anything on it right now, I'll assume that was just earsay and bs.

That is not unrealistic to suggest. Orgasm heightens internal movements and increases female sexual secretions. Both could make it easier for sperm to complete their journey. It may be the biological intent of the female orgasm.

**Blitza da warboy**

You know, if people were pro choice and all, we wouldn't have to have this idiotic episode right now.

**Melissia**

Spoilered because this conversation is getting in to bodily functions and sexuality, and so... yeah. warning and all that.

Spoiler:

**sebster**

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Okay here's me about to get flamed unto hell.

You know my stance on abortion. I do think the a priori moral thing to do in a rape case would be to carry the child to it's birth. I say a priori because I wouldn't dare blame anyone for having an abortion ever, and even less in such a case. I can't put myself in place of the expectant mother of her raper's child, but still, that kid shouldn't lose it's right to exist because his father is an utter donkey-cave.

I've often thought that if one believed that abortion is wrong because the child is a human being as deserving of rights as any other person, then it shouldn't matter whether the mother consented to sex or not.

But then I don't believe in outlawing abortion, so I'm not really the guy to go to for insight into the thought processes of people opposed to abortion.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orlanth wrote:
I really think the 'legitimate rape' thing needs to be properly defined before we can have a proper go at this topic.

If the politician concerned didn't explain what he was alleged to have said perhaps it was a slip of the tongue, an embellishment by hostile media or just something misheard.

There may be a simple honest explanation other than 'he literally meant what he said'.

"Legitimate rape" has a history of use by anti-abortion groups who speculate that if an exemption for rape was permitted, there'd be a problem with women claiming they were raped so they could access abortion, and in turn speculating about how closely you'd have to verify a woman's story before permitting an abortion.

There's no reason to suspect the term was used in any context but that.

And that's enough to condemn this guy, without even looking at the simply unacceptable lack of scientific knowledge he's shown.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Melissia wrote:

I get called a "feminazi" because I say women need a greater presence in the military as part of our civic duty (equal rights means equal responsibility after all).

http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/07/women-in-combat-activists-celebrate-mediocre-war-experience-to-bolster-calls-for-female-infantry/

This you?

Spoiler:

I'm not sure how women can get a greater presence in the military without a draft. The ones who do enlist have, and the ones who don't wouldn't if they could help it. If you mean women in combat jobs *shrug* There's valid arguments on both sides of the house for that one, but that's another thread.

Do find it silly you get called a femi-nazi though. That term's usually reserved for man-hater feminists, and you seem very equal opportunity in your hate to me.

Back on topic: I've never been a huge fan of abortion groups, but I missed the "legitimate rape" term somewhere down the line. It takes a screwed up mind to look at a rape victim and think "Lying slut just wants to abandon her responsibility and murder her child."

**Melissia**

Protestors at clinics screaming synonyms of "slut" and "prostitute" (many of which would be censored here) at any woman who enters (Even if they're going for reasons completely unrelated to abortion) is a long time standard of the movement.

**azazel the cat**

AegisGrimm wrote:I agree. Does he seriously think the a woman's body will react to a rapists sperm like some kind of immune response and destroy the potential fetus? He's a high school grad, right? Because that's the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Sometimes High school education doesn't actually mean very much. Example.

And when Akin says "legitimate rape", I'm willing to bet he means one or more of the following:

-when she wasn't asking for it
-when she wasn't dressed like she wanted it
-when she wasn't married to her attacker
-when she wasn't on a date
-when she wasn't a slut
-when she wasn't a prostitute
-when she wasn't subconsciously enjoying it
-when she wasn't just making it up

**Orlanth**

sebster wrote:

Orlanth wrote:
I really think the 'legitimate rape' thing needs to be properly defined before we can have a proper go at this topic.

If the politician concerned didn't explain what he was alleged to have said perhaps it was a slip of the tongue, an embellishment by hostile media or just something misheard.

There may be a simple honest explanation other than 'he literally meant what he said'.

"Legitimate rape" has a history of use by anti-abortion groups who speculate that if an exemption for rape was permitted, there'd be a problem with women claiming they were raped so they could access abortion, and in turn speculating about how closely you'd have to verify a woman's story before permitting an abortion.

That so. Do you have a source?

I did a Google search on 'legitimate rape'. After 24 pages still hadn't found any title reference to anything other than the current issue.

sebster wrote:

There's no reason to suspect the term was used in any context but that.

Possibly if the context of its history of use by anti-abortion groups has any truth to it.

That still will not rule out having mispoken, which is what the Senator has been saying according to many of the links the above search revealed.

I stand by my original premise, it is fairer for us to wait until the Senator has had fair chance to explain himself giving the voting public in Missouri (therefore by extension everyone else) the opportunity to understand precisely what he meant.

sebster wrote:

And that's enough of an excuse for political opponents to condemn this guy, and by extension Republicans in general without even looking at what he actually meant to say .

Fixed.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Melissia wrote:
Protestors at clinics screaming synonyms of "slut" and "prostitute" (many of which would be censored here) are a long time standard of the movement.

That I'm aware of, legitimate rape though, that's much more heinous for some reason.

Ironic these people call themselves Christians (for the most part in the US) and have that whole love thing they're supposed to be working on, then a portion of their populace does things like that. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that's not how that works.

**Melissia**

Orlanth apparently has never heard of Occam's Razor.

**Orlanth**

azazel the cat wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:I agree. Does he seriously think the a woman's body will react to a rapists sperm like some kind of immune response and destroy the potential fetus? He's a high school grad, right? Because that's the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Sometimes High school education doesn't actually mean very much. Example.

And when Akin says "legitimate rape", I'm willing to bet he means one or more of the following:

-when she wasn't asking for it
-when she wasn't dressed like she wanted it
-when she wasn't married to her attacker
-when she wasn't on a date first
-when she wasn't a slut
-when she wasn't a prostitute
-when she wasn't subconsciously enjoying it
-when she wasn't just making it up

I typically don't wish ill will towards people, but I know that I would laugh if I were to read about someone dressing up like Jesus and fethstarting this guy's head.

EDIT: Interesting. Apparently the original word that I changed to "fethstarting" wasn't being picked up by the filters.

How about:

And when Akin says "legitimate rape", I'm willing to bet he means the following:
- when sexual intercourse actually is rape.

We all get tongue twisters.

Take these two statements:

1. "First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that's* really rare, If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down"

2. "First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that's* really rare, If someone really is raped, the female body has ways to try to stop pregnancy."

*pregnancy resulting from rape from context.

Are we even sure that isnt true? Can the mental state of the mother, or a desire to conceive or a lack of desire to conceive actually effect the chances of conception or the chances of miscarriage.

After a two minute search, so this is far from exhaustive:

http://www.mrc.ac.za/mrcnews/july2005/mom.htm
Research has already demonstrated that psychosocial stress - stress related to one's psychological state and social environment - may significantly affect not only the mother's wellbeing, but also the physical development of the child she is carrying.

http://www.psychiatry.emory.edu/PROGRAMS/GADrug/Feature%20Articles/Mothers/The%20effects%20of%20maternal%20stress%20and%20anxiety%20during%20pregnancy%20(mot07).pdf
Prenatal stress and perinatal outcomes—Maternal stress and anxiety during pregnancy has been associated with:
- shorter gestation & higher incidence of preterm birth
- smaller birth weight and length
- increased risk of miscarriage

In account of the above what the Senator said is even reasonable, if the obvious translation of legitimate in the context of the comment holds. He says that the female body tries to 'shut that whole thing down'. He does not imply it will, or must. It gives no room to blanket say that abortion will never be necessary in the case of rape because gestation to term wont happen. He said try. Yes that could be a tongue twister too, but usually one garbled word is enough, its not fair to assume lightning will strike twice here. Clarify 'legitimate rape' and what the Senator said may well make scientific sense.

So in order for what the senator said to be utterly stupid we need a translation of legitimate rape that sounds utterly stupid, which is unlikely as every Senator (and I would suggest almost everyone else) would know that rape is a crime and can never be formally 'legitimate' in the US. The word legitimate in all likelihood is therefore a mispoken word meaning something else.
That or evidence that rape is unlikely to cause stress or anxiety in women.

He is a fething Senator, it must be fairly difficult to be that stupid and get that far. Occams razor suggests that the simplest answer is that as the Senator said, he mispoke, he garbled a sentence, nothing more.
What it appears he was saying if you look at his comments fairly and in context does appear to be backed up by some medical websites. How accredited they are I cannot say.

In any case should he have the meaning of his words dictated by a horde of closet Democrats who will not wait to allow him to clarify.