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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Contrary to what voters were led to believe, California took the unprecedented step this month to give banks and struggling homeowners up to $100,000 in taxpayer funds to reduce underwater mortgages.

Originally, banks and lenders were supposed to pay 50 percent of the cost of reducing the principal for those whose homes are worth less than their mortgage. But when the banks refused, California took the controversial step of paying the entire amount, up to $100,000.

"We thought, you know, 50-50 was much more attractive and we'd have much more traction with lenders, and it just didn't turn out to work as well as we would have liked," said Diane Richardson, legislative director of the California Housing Finance Agency.

The program, known as the Hardest Hit Housing Market fund, is part of a $7.6 billion federal effort to help underwater homeowners in 18 states. California received $2 billion. But when banks and lenders who service loans refused to write down even a small portion of the negative equity loans, California decided to use the taxpayer money to pay 100 percent of the mortgage reduction.

Richard Green, a professor of real estate at the University of Southern California, said it's not what taxpayers signed up for.

"I think taxpayers would be furious at the idea that everybody gets completely off the hook for this," Green said. "There are people that say, look, I've been a renter all these years, I've been paying my mortgage all these years, why am I bailing out these people who made a bad decision? I think the politics of it are very combustible."

Back in 2009, President Obama and other lawmakers discussed the "moral hazard" such federal programs represented. If you help some homeowners, will others abuse the system because they know others will pay up the tab? How many borrowers would purposely fall behind on their payments in the hopes of getting an principal reduction is anyone's guess, but mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac recently rejected the idea of cutting loan balances, saying savings did not justify the cost.

"A solution that doesn't take a little bit of flesh from both borrowers and lenders I think is problematic," Green said. "I do think there needs to be a less sum ... of taxpayer money in reducing these balances. I just think borrowers should have to pay for something and lenders should have to pay something for this."

"I don't know where the blame belongs. I mean, we thought we were creating something that was attractive, and banks would participate," Richardson said. "But look at the magnitude of this crisis. If we just step aside and let all these homes go into foreclosure, I mean, I continue to make my mortgage payment, too. And I am acutely aware of every home that goes into foreclosure in my neighborhood, my property values are going down. So if we can help save some of these people, you know, that's to my benefit."

As a result of paying 100 percent of the cost of each mortgage write-down, the number of troubled homeowners California can help from 25,000 to fewer than 9,000. In April, Cynthia Romero, inspector general of the TARP program, criticized the Hardest Hit fund, saying states have misused the money, and she blamed the Treasury Department for failing to require banks and lenders to participate in the program before allocating the money to states. She said states lacked leverage to recruit servicers or banks to play.

California made two other changes to accommodate lenders and homeowners. Banks will now get 100 percent of the write-down money in the first year, not in three installments. Secondly, homeowners will not have to pay back the money if the home is sold at a profit - provided they make their payment and stay in the home for five years.

This is a far cry from this statement Obama made in April in 2009 in Phoenix: "So this part of the plan will require both buyers and lenders to step up and do their part and to take on some responsibility."

The Hardest Hit fund was signed to help those markets where a majority of homes for sale were actually underwater. As of December 31, just 3 percent of the $7.6 billion had been spent, and housing prices in most markets have already begun to recover. Nevertheless, the federal government is not recalling the money.

With so few homeowners being helped some doubt the mortgage write-down will stabilize any market, nevertheless Green says spend away.

"At the end of the day, you have a choice, do you want to be sanctimonious or do you want to solve the problem. And I want to solve the problem. Is this unfair? Absolutely. A lot of things in life are unfair. But to clear out the inventory in certain parts of the country I think it is necessary to do something like principle reduction."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/20/us-taxpayers-bailout-california-homeowners-as-banks-fail-to-pay-their-share/#ixzz247oGsYJV

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Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Socialist as I am, this is the sorta thing that makes me think it wise to invest in guillotine manufacturers.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






In before "Fox isn't news."

Also, wholly unsurprised.

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Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Banks are corrupt, greedy organizations who refuse to keep their word and often break the law for short-term profit.

Gee, who'da thunk it.

It's not like we don't already have decades of financial industry scandals.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Deregulate them some more until they decide to pick up their share.
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

 d-usa wrote:
Deregulate them some more until they decide to pick up their share.


But keep just enough regulation to bail them out when it explodes in their faces.
   
Made in ie
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

azazel the cat wrote:Socialist as I am, this is the sorta thing that makes me think it wise to invest in guillotine manufacturers.
Doesn't it count as capitalist, seeing as the money is used to help financial institutes save a buck?

What I'm interested in: How the fruit can banks just "refuse" to pay?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Only thing I can think of for general population to retaliate. Is find out what banks and move to another bank

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
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Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Jihadin wrote:Only thing I can think of for general population to retaliate. Is find out what banks and move to another bank

I can think of more creative methods.

   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

The general populace can also use their votes to strengthen regulation and push for stricter punishments on wayward banks.

In effect, in a democratic society, capitalism relies on the general populace believing that capitalistic laws benefit it. The more corruption and greed shown by the financial industry, the less persuasive the arguments are for strict, laissez faire capitalism and deregulation.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/20 23:46:17


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Havoc with Blastmaster





So what your saying is... Corruption pushes the populace towards regulation and socialism?

Sua Sponte 
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Ifepy wrote:So what your saying is... Corruption pushes the populace towards regulation and socialism?

Well, yeah. That's generally how it works. In a socialist system, corruption can still take place. But it can be punished. In a laissez-faire capitalist system, that corruption is legitimized by the absence of regulation. Essentially, banks can get away with anything if there is no laws to reign them in.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

A purely unregulated capitalist system has the exact same problem as a pure completely regulated communist system.

Both work perfectly fine on paper and would result in a system where everybody is happy.

Both fail in real life because greed and corruption of the people in charge lead to failures at multiple levels.
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

There's corruption and greed in any system regardless of how much your regulate it.

Unless there's some utopia out there I'm unaware of.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/21 02:08:17


   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





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 LordofHats wrote:
There's corruption and greed in any system regardless of how much your regulate it.

Unless there's some utopia out there I'm unaware of.


Yeah, but the financial services sector broke down in the 2000's and has become corrupt in a way that is unprecedented in the history of mankind. The scale and reach of it demands regulation.

----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

IDK about unprecedented. There was the administration of Ulysses S Grant

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

I can't wait for Romney to get in there and sort wall street and the banks out, he's in favor of regulation right?



 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Yeah, he's in favor of regulation.

Self-regulation, which as we know, has worked so far (in repeatedly destroying our economy)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/21 03:35:03


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





LordofHats wrote:There's corruption and greed in any system regardless of how much your regulate it.

Unless there's some utopia out there I'm unaware of.

I hear Sweden is pretty nice.
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Until the crazy militant Christian shows up and shoots everyone XD

But yeah, Sweeden's okay. If you can tolerate the cold. I don't do temperatures below 60f

   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





LordofHats wrote:Until the crazy militant Christian shows up and shoots everyone XD

But yeah, Sweeden's okay. If you can tolerate the cold. I don't do temperatures below 60f

Although I know that's a joke (a bad one at that...) I think Sweden has far fewer occurrances of that than the US.
   
Made in gb
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The Great State of Texas

Yep banks are evil. Get rid of em all. Wait? what is that? what do you mean the entire economy collapses overnight???

it sucks we can't get a loan. The banks are evil. Well wipe them out then try to get a loan, or a credit card, or construction financing. Welcome to the fething stone age.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Am I the only person who's heard of a thing called Social Democracy?

No idea what it's like in the states but in the UK both major parties refuse to regulate financial services in the slightest. It's actually pretty fething depressing.

Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:

jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Oh look, Frazzled is back. Off-Topic lives again, all hail the wiener-lords!

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





That and absurd right-wing opinions.

Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:

jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Testify wrote:
That and absurd right-wing opinions.




-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Frazzled wrote:
Yep banks are evil. Get rid of em all. Wait? what is that? what do you mean the entire economy collapses overnight???


What's that? Fraz completely ignoring the middle ground going straight past regulation and into destruction of the banks.

No... that is unheard of. Fraz would never do anything like that. It cannot be.



Meanwhile, the GFC wiped 5% off the world's GDP, and no-one, not just the US but no-one across the world, has done a damn thing to stop it happening again. It's quite unbelievable really.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/22 08:20:44


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Thats because you can't stop the signal, Mal.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
 
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