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So Pakistani is a predominantly Muslim nation and home to a pretty hard core anti blasphemy law. This is resulting in a little girl possibly facing execution for allegedly burning a copy of the Quran.

Quick video: http://youtu.be/xxDh2JQRiu8

A more serious source courtesy of the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19315210

Short version: The young girl who is reported by activist groups and christian community leaders in Islamabad to have the congenital disease Down's Syndrome was found carrying a trash bag that happened to contain a couple pages of the Quran (not a full copy mind) and was then arrested by the government, which pretty much saved her life from mob violence. The majority of residents of her small christian neighborhood have fled. Christian community leaders report that they are often accused of blasphemy by their neighbors. Several opponents to the blasphemy laws in the Pakistani government have been murdered for their opposition.

Thoughts folks? and predictions on the little girl? Personally I think she's not going to get to go home here...

A further point, do we blame the religion or the culture here? I know plenty of Muslims who would be disgusted by these acts of mob brutality and oppression but it seems religion is clearly their motivation. Blasphemy laws are an obvious and brutal restriction of free speech in a state ruled by dominant religion in the area, but is there some feasible argument to not offend these people that I'm not seeing? You know beyond "don't piss them off or you're going to be killed"?

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
So Pakistani is a predominantly Muslim nation and home to a pretty hard core anti blasphemy law. This is resulting in a little girl possibly facing execution for allegedly burning a copy of the Quran.

Quick video: http://youtu.be/xxDh2JQRiu8

A more serious source courtesy of the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19315210

Short version: The young girl who is reported by activist groups and christian community leaders in Islamabad to have the congenital disease Down's Syndrome was found carrying a trash bag that happened to contain a couple pages of the Quran (not a full copy mind) and was then arrested by the government, which pretty much saved her life from mob violence. The majority of residents of her small christian neighborhood have fled. Christian community leaders report that they are often accused of blasphemy by their neighbors. Several opponents to the blasphemy laws in the Pakistani government have been murdered for their opposition.

Thoughts folks? and predictions on the little girl? Personally I think she's not going to get to go home here...

A further point, do we blame the religion or the culture here? I know plenty of Muslims who would be disgusted by these acts of mob brutality and oppression but it seems religion is clearly their motivation. Blasphemy laws are an obvious and brutal restriction of free speech in a state ruled by dominant religion in the area, but is there some feasible argument to not offend these people that I'm not seeing? You know beyond "don't piss them off or you're going to be killed"?

I dearly hope she isnt killed.

Given the motivator (religion) I have little faith...

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:


A further point, do we blame the religion or the culture here?

Both. The penalties are in Sharia. The decision to follow the laws are in the minds of the people.

Edited for content - MT11

See this is why I signed up for the army. To shoot goat screwing insurgents, AQ, and the Taliban

Fixed

 Jihadin wrote:

See this is why I signed up for the army. To shoot goat screwing insurgents, AQ, and the Taliban

Fixed

Sadly I think he meant exactly what he said. [Shudder]

Not like any nutjobs here in the US are killing people based upon religious/ethnic profiling as of late (just ask the Sikh population)...

Drone strikes

Guantanamo

Various atrocious incidents on the part of soldiers deployed

Do we really have much morale highground to stand on or right to be morally outraged at this point in the game?

It's interesting, isn't it?

I think the girl will die.

Another day in the Pakistani office. Carry on.

 Jihadin wrote:

See this is why I signed up for the army. To shoot goat screwing insurgents, AQ, and the Taliban

Fixed

now I want to know what it really said. Major Tom doesn't dive into this cess pool unless he really HAS to.

 CT GAMER wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

See this is why I signed up for the army. To shoot goat screwing insurgents, AQ, and the Taliban

Fixed

Sadly I think he meant exactly what he said. [Shudder]

Not like any nutjobs here in the US are killing people based upon religious/ethnic profiling as of late (just ask the Sikh population)...

Drone strikes

Guantanamo

Various atrocious incidents on the part of soldiers deployed

Do we really have much morale highground to stand on or right to be morally outraged at this point in the game?

Till we start stringing eleven year olds up for the noose, Yes I'd say we do.

The BBC were reporting (they still are but they're less concrete about it) that the girl has Down's Syndrome too.

Lol yall can be offended at my post. Rest edited - MT11

Alright, you didn't get it the first time. I will be a bit more blunt. Generalizations of Ethnic groups in a negative light is not allowed on Dakka. Period. I don't care how justified you think your views are, they are not welcome here and absolutely will not be tolerated.

I don't think anyone's offended, or even really cares. It just had to be modded for violating Dakka's terms and conditions.

Not neccesary even if it is a fair point - MT11

Dakka's Daily Anti-Rule 1 thread...

I agree with you I guess. I should watch my mouth.

But at the same time I feel like America is uninformed about what it is really like

CT GAMER wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

See this is why I signed up for the army. To shoot goat screwing insurgents, AQ, and the Taliban

Fixed

Sadly I think he meant exactly what he said. [Shudder]

Not like any nutjobs here in the US are killing people based upon religious/ethnic profiling as of late (just ask the Sikh population)...

Various atrocious incidents on the part of soldiers deployed

Do we really have much morale highground to stand on or right to be morally outraged at this point in the game?

The difference is those actions are not endorsed by the state. Biiiiiiiiig difference.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:


Till we start stringing eleven year olds up for the noose, Yes I'd say we do.

Well you convicted a 15 year old boy (so technically a child soldier) of war crimes and terrorism. Of course that was only after years of abuse in Guantanemo Bay.

So your moral high ground is not so high as you'd like.

Well you convicted a 15 year old boy (so technically a child soldier) of war crimes and terrorism. Of course that was only after years of abuse in Guantanemo Bay.

The one that frag a US soldier knowingly. Child soldiers are common with them. The suicide bomber was 14 yrs old that tried to kill us at Sharana in '08. I not shed a tear for that kid but it does give me a burning desire to "opt" out insurgents/AQ/Taliban. Been a couple engagements to which either we captured or "opt" out child soldiers.

This thread going to turn into military vs civilian due to either lack of knowledge or moral high ground perception.

Alright.

I realize this is a touchy topic, and one any western person, or indeed if I may stretch it, moral person from our perspective would take great offense to. I get it. It offends me in a fundamental way too.

HOWEVER.

That does not mean we get to make sweeping generalizations characterizing a group of people numbering in the millions if not billions spanning dozens of countries. You do not get to paint millions with the same brush. I certainly wouldn't want to be seen as the same as some of the more zealous elements of my own demographic either.

I don't care what country you went to, or what you saw. For every person you saw doing something horrible there may well have been a hundred thousand living decent, happy lives. Make your points without attacking entire cultures people, it is not only immediately offensive and inflammatory, it is also completely and massively arrogant and naive to think it would be so simple that you could encompass the character and activities of millions in 2 sentences.

Get it together people, you are better than this. This is an important, sad and very serious topic, show it some respect by having a converation that is fueled by facts and compassion, not hate.

Or, if morality and the high road do not appeal, then do it because the next person making an even vaguely racist comment is gonna catch the hammer.

 Jihadin wrote:

Well you convicted a 15 year old boy (so technically a child soldier) of war crimes and terrorism. Of course that was only after years of abuse in Guantanemo Bay.

The one that frag a US soldier knowingly. Child soldiers are common with them. The suicide bomber was 14 yrs old that tried to kill us at Sharana in '08. I not shed a tear for that kid but it does give me a burning desire to "opt" out insurgents/AQ/Taliban. Been a couple engagements to which either we captured or "opt" out child soldiers.

This thread going to turn into military vs civilian due to either lack of knowledge or moral high ground perception.

Yeah my bad. Apologies to the other vets if you choose to fight that particular furball out.

 Jihadin wrote:

Well you convicted a 15 year old boy (so technically a child soldier) of war crimes and terrorism. Of course that was only after years of abuse in Guantanemo Bay.

The one that frag a US soldier knowingly. Child soldiers are common with them. The suicide bomber was 14 yrs old that tried to kill us at Sharana in '08. I not shed a tear for that kid but it does give me a burning desire to "opt" out insurgents/AQ/Taliban. Been a couple engagements to which either we captured or "opt" out child soldiers.

This thread going to turn into military vs civilian due to either lack of knowledge or moral high ground perception.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be detained but that once detained they should be treated as their circumstances requires.

They're children who have been lied to by parents and other people they trust, to fight a war they don't understand. With counselling and actually being treated with respect there is a possibility of showing them that the stories they've been fed about the USA and other Western countries are false. By treating them with contempt and torturing them all that happens is that their radicalisation is cemented.

Yeah my bad. Apologies to the other vets if you choose to fight that particular furball out.

Its all good as long as everyone remembers there's a reason for some things. Also that everyone needs to bear in mind the difference between the general population vs the insurgents/AQ/Taliban. Actualy the combat arena to the world arena.

Also I know some military on here is touchy just on the word "muslims". As for for me I don't care as long as the words "Allah Ackbar" and "God wills it" is not involved. The other is people trying to "opt" me the hell out to.

You do not get to paint millions with the same brush. I certainly wouldn't want to be seen as the same as some of the more zealous elements of my own demographic either.

MajorTom is 110% correct in this. A majority of "muslims" I worked with were professional in their own way. Its just a different mind set one has to get use to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

They're children who have been lied to by parents and other people they trust, to fight a war they don't understand. With counselling and actually being treated with respect there is a possibility of showing them that the stories they've been fed about the USA and other Western countries are false. By treating them with contempt and torturing them all that happens is that their radicalisation is cemented.

I would debate that but its hard to relay what I actually know. The children are "coerced" into it. I do know of one incident of a father and son insurgent grp that got opted out. Only reason we know he was the son was the father stopped fighting and ran for his kid minus his weapon. That screwed up everybody day. Went OT a bit

They need a honest education system thats free of religion of any sort. For that to happen they need the country infrastructure to be on par. For that to happen they need a government that actually stable. Islambad in Pakistan is not up to par

 Jihadin wrote:

Yeah my bad. Apologies to the other vets if you choose to fight that particular furball out.

Its all good as long as everyone remembers there's a reason for some things. Also that everyone needs to bear in mind the difference between the general population vs the insurgents/AQ/Taliban. Actualy the combat arena to the world arena.

Also I know some military on here is touchy just on the word "muslims". As for for me I don't care as long as the words "Allah Ackbar" and "God wills it" is not involved. The other is people trying to "opt" me the hell out to.

You do not get to paint millions with the same brush. I certainly wouldn't want to be seen as the same as some of the more zealous elements of my own demographic either.

MajorTom is 110% correct in this. A majority of "muslims" I worked with were professional in their own way. Its just a different mind set one has to get use to.

Agreed and well known from my experience and the usual word passed by my barracks buddies and NCOs. There's bad guys and good guys in any situation, mixing them together is a fallacy.

I'll third MajorTom as well. There's approximately a billion muslims in the world, That's a whole lot of people who don't start riots screaming about killing people if someone does something that offends them. That's a whole lot of people who are probably just as disgusted by suicide bombers and what one muslim Marine I spoke with at length referred to as the "perversion of islam" as one else with a vaguely decent set of human morals.

 Jihadin wrote:


They need a honest education system thats free of religion of any sort. For that to happen they need the country infrastructure to be on par. For that to happen they need a government that actually stable.

Don't we all.


Sort of ironic that we want other countries to stop basing everything in religion while at the same time we are trying to do it ourselves hand over fist...

I agree Gamer but no one killing anyone here like they are there. 2014 around the corner. I give Afghanistan 3 yrs min before it goes "flush" mode

 CT GAMER wrote:
Don't we all.


Sort of ironic that we want other countries to stop basing everything in religion while at the same time we are trying to do it ourselves hand over fist...

Heaven forbid we consider that a stable secular government has relatively little in comparison to a quasi-theocracy.

 Jihadin wrote:
2014 around the corner. I give Afghanistan 3 yrs min before it goes "flush" mode

No doubt.

 Jihadin wrote:
I agree Gamer but no one killing anyone here like they are there. 2014 around the corner. I give Afghanistan 3 yrs min before it goes "flush" mode

A small blessing that there aren't serious religious "issues" here in the same vein as over there.

Jihadin I think your estimate is a little generous...

I'd actually say 3 years sounds about right assuming current variables. It might not flush at all though depending on how the Afghan government deals with the Taliban.

The dumbest thing about it in the end is that we spend 13 years in the place and in the end the Taliban might just end up in power again, and peacefully at that.