Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I was thinking earlier about all the boxed sets we've gotten for 40k, such as Battle for Macragge, Assault on Black Reach, Space Hulk and now Dark Vengeance. Then there are all the Fantasy ones, such as Isle of Blood, Battle for Skull Pass, and the previous sets whose names escape me. The main draw of all of these sets is the sheer amount of plastic in them, with fewer options and at a lower price point, and that's no secret. Many of us are aware of how much time, effort, and money GW puts into plastic sprue creation. Plastic molds are expensive, and GW typically tries to get as much mileage out of a given kit (hello, Eldar Jetbikes and Ork buggies) before "retiring" it. However, these starter sets are only available for a couple years, or in the case of Space Hulk, one month or so.

So here's what I'm thinking: What if GW continued to sell just the plastic contents of these sets (IE: Just the sprues with the models and not the rules, templates, etc) as direct only items (so no fancy packaging, just plastic bags) from their website? If GW wanted to keep things in line with their pricing (I hear your groans and add mine to the chorus) they could even sell them around the price the sets were at when they were still in box. I know I wouldn't have any qualms whatsoever about dropping $100 on the Space Hulk Terminators and Genestealers again. While Battle for Macragge definitely pales in comparison to these more recent offerings, I know a friend of mine who would have loved to get the Tyranids from it as recently as a year ago.

So, Dakka folks, what do you think of this? If GW were to sell just the sprues from their previous starter sets (both Fantasy and 40k) would you be interested?

So what's in it for GW?

I could see the Black Reach Deffkoptas and Warboss selling, and some of the Tyranid Terrain from Mcragge, but the other stuff is either already being sold (Aquilla Lander), or a bit to static to sell.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So what's in it for GW?

Money? Continued use of the molds for more money? Altho I sure wouldn't pay box swet prices just for the miniatures. Now, a slightly different take on it would be to offer the old box sets with the new rules. That way players would have more choices as to their starting miniatures.

I think it's a great idea. And I think "What's in it for GW?" is continued revenue from resources they invested a lot. I don't think they would have any problem moving most of those sets.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
I could see the Black Reach Deffkoptas and Warboss selling, and some of the Tyranid Terrain from Mcragge, but the other stuff is either already being sold (Aquilla Lander), or a bit to static to sell.

I disagree. I think tons of that stuff would sell VERY well to new players looking for an easier entry in to the game. AoBR is the very reason I got in to 40k because the orks were accessible, plentiful, and I had a friend who was interested in Ultras.

In a word.. No

People bought starters for the mini rulebooks a lot of the time.. Very few need the sub-par marine sculpts anymore or the Orks .. The market was completely saturated and the nid models from 4th aren't horribly useful anymore either especially considering the nerf to genestealers

The crashed space ship always has a market, so maybe just boxsets of that!

Also, GW has come to the conclusion they HATE generic box sets that can be used for other armies. They don't want you buying joe marines, they want you to buy 40$ tactical squad box sets.

Putting a copy of the 6th Ed rulebook in Assault on Black Reach wouldn't be a bad idea for GW tbh.

yeah but the core issue is still the same. GW doesn't want you buying "make your own chapter" marines in bulk. That's why the new starter has molded on dark angel details.

They want you buy 10 marines for 40$, not 10$ off ebay.

 matphat wrote:
And I think "What's in it for GW?" is continued revenue from resources they invested a lot.

Revenue that eats directly into revenue from other resources that they also invested a lot in.

People seem to have gotten this "each mold needs to pay for itself" mantra stuck in their head without ever critically thinking about it.

It depends....

Lets use the Black Reach kit...

Tactical marines: disgusting "block of plastic" models with the marine holding the bolt gun on his boobs. I also don't like the infantry stamp on the shoulder pads, as I prefer transfers.
Terminators: best part of the kit for SM imo. Not much else you can really do with shooty marines.
Dreadnought: Not bad, but I don't use dreads much.
Captain: Not a bad basic kit model. I still use one.

Orks:
Boys: Not bad, especially if you have a green horde, but also suffer from the "block of plastic" look as the marines.
Copters: best part of Orks set imo
Nobs: Not bad, but you can do more with the real kit
Boss: Like the captain, very decent basic kit model, doesn't suffer from "block of plastic" like captain though.

Here's the deal, these kits are starter kits, and their disadvantages to a seasoned gamer are advantages to a newbie. They are easier to put together.

What I don't get is GWs marketing scheme of only making Space Hulk and other stand alone games for limited time offerings. It's like the Disney Vault or some nonsense.

If they rerelease starter sets they would cost same as buying the models individually I imagine, since its for a game that no longer exists (5th edition is gone, so is 4th).

As Blackfang said, starter sets compete with their main product line.. It makes no sense to release them.

GW actually has a history of this, though I'm not sure how profitble it was or will be.

-The figures from the 2nd edition box set (marines, orks, gretchin) all got released as small budget boxed sets.
-Whatever edition of WHFB came out around the same time as 2nd edition 40k also saw it's figures released IIRC.
-The figures from Necromunda were also released this way, and the terrain from Necromunda was released as a terrain set.
-Talisman creatures were released in small boxed sets.
-Mordhiem buildings were avaialble in a box
-Mordhiem figure sprues were avaialble separately but only via mail order.

The main difference of course is that back then plastics were very much in the minority. Since then, plastics have become the majority and cheaply selling boxed set plastics might caniballize the sales of other, more expensive, plastic kits that cover the same subject.

My suspicion is that any of the figs from the most recent two recent boxed sets for both WHFB and 40k would sell fairly well to help folks bulk up their forces, but that GW would rather have folks buy the pricier multipart boxed sets.

To be honest, I am surprised they haven't done this. But it might be more a BITZ section thing which they have moved away from.

Offering the sprues would make a great deal of sense. Those plastic Spore Mines were awesome (that's why I bought so many!). And I'd love to get the Troll from Battle for BloodSkullSpikeArrow Pass for Quest, but never got a chance.


And here in Oz, unsold starters are send to land-fill to be destroyed.

Compared to going to the landfill... that's a MUCH better alternative.

DAMN! Now I want that Troll...

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So what's in it for GW?

They continue making money off of the expensive molds they created, rather than retiring them to the scrap pile. New players would have more choices for entering the hobby and then sinking in more money later when expanding their armies. Veteran players would have more excuses for starting new armies if inexpensive starter sets like those offered in IoB, AoBR, DV, and some of the others were offered. It is a win-win for players and GW alike.

Let's ignore the ONE army in the game whose models can be used for a bajillion different actual armies.

Let's look at WFB:
Masses of cheap Skaven? Yes please.
Masses of cheap goblins? Yes please.
Cheap High Elves? yes please
Cheap Dwarves? yes please
Masses of Cheap Orcs? yes please
Masses of cheap Empire troops? Yes please

The last 3 boxes of Warhammer Fantasy all have models that are still relevant, useable, and welcome. You know how many kits the IoB elves compete with? Zero. No one in their right mind is buying finecast swordmasters. And tons of people want the Sea Guard.


If anything, GW needs to stop consolidating the molds of the boxed sets. Put one army on one side, and the other army on another side. Then those same single sprues could be sold as cheap battleforces on their own. The Fantasy ones would sell like hotcakes. Even if they only produced them in small runs at a time, or on demand.

On top of that, it would be a show of good faith from the company by offering certain units at a lower price point. If someone can get INTO the game cheaply, then they are more likely to spend more money as they learn the game and see a need for other units.

IMO every army(at least for WFB) should have a 500 point single sprue monopose box set available for relatively little money($50ish).

 Aerethan wrote:


IMO every army(at least for WFB) should have a 500 point single sprue monopose box set available for relatively little money($50ish).

+1

If GW is really more interested in making sales to new customers, then offering a starter set for around $50-$60 instead of a battleforce for around $100 would certainly attract more impulse buys and new customers. Once they play a few games with their 500 point armies they will naturally wish to expand them with the available plastic and fineca$t kits out there.

I have the 3rd edition starter, and went out and picked up the marines from the 4th and 5th edition. Cheap bodies to fill out the troop slots is always appreciated. I may end up skipping 6th, robes just doesn't appeal to me.

 helium42 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So what's in it for GW?

They continue making money off of the expensive molds they created, rather than retiring them to the scrap pile. New players would have more choices for entering the hobby and then sinking in more money later when expanding their armies. Veteran players would have more excuses for starting new armies if inexpensive starter sets like those offered in IoB, AoBR, DV, and some of the others were offered. It is a win-win for players and GW alike.

 ph34r wrote:

 helium42 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So what's in it for GW?

They continue making money off of the expensive molds they created, rather than retiring them to the scrap pile. New players would have more choices for entering the hobby and then sinking in more money later when expanding their armies. Veteran players would have more excuses for starting new armies if inexpensive starter sets like those offered in IoB, AoBR, DV, and some of the others were offered. It is a win-win for players and GW alike.

Pretty sure the "everyone buys basic troops for $8/10 on ebay instead of $38/10 from GW" is a "lose" for GW.

EDIT: new quotes appear to be "enhanced"

Another thing GW could do with said sprues is to make them Direct/GW store only items. It would give them more incentive to do so as they would of course be taking in a larger cut of the profits, and it would destroy ebay sales of those particular kits.

GW charging full retail online is stupid when it's an item that ANY other web store sells at 20%+ off. If it is a GW exclusive item though, the price and value of the models are maintained without losing the volume of sales that would be seen in independent retailers.

Also, it would give GW the chance to more or less control what new players see via the website or a GW store.

It would work out well for everyone really. New players get a lower entry price, veteran players get both cheap models and new people to play against, GW takes in higher profit margins on those kits. As for Independent stores, they may not get that initial sale, but they would get return business from people who want to increase their army while still getting that discount.

The more people that play this game, the more we as a community, and stores as a business profit.

I'm sure some neckbeard at GW will misinterpret my words here as saying that GW should make everything direct only. Dear Neckbeard, NO. You are an idiot and you should be ashamed for even thinking that.

I think you're on the right track Aerethan, by saying that it would make sense for the sprues to be direct only. But perhaps they could keep some stock in the GW stores for potential new customers. I think that monopose, snap-together figures are the perfect introduction to the hobby for many people, and many of those potential new customers would make a purchase in the store but not place an order and wait.

 helium42 wrote:
I think you're on the right track Aerethan, by saying that it would make sense for the sprues to be direct only. But perhaps they could keep some stock in the GW stores for potential new customers. I think that monopose, snap-together figures are the perfect introduction to the hobby for many people, and many of those potential new customers would make a purchase in the store but not place an order and wait.

You're all too right about snap-on figures being perfect for beginners. 40k was my first game I played seriously, but before that I was thinking about getting into Wargaming. When I saw that wargaming came with a lot of parts I'd have to assemble and then paint it, it lost a lot of it's allure on me. However, I soon became fascinated with the 40k universe that I just HAD to play it, and when AoBR arrived with snap on miniatures I was excited to play, playing my first game the night i assembled it, and later that week I decided to seriously commit to the game, and now I have a love of assembling the figures in different poses and painting them the way I want to

I am also of the belief that it would be awesome for GW to release these sets the way Aerethan described it. Personally, I prefer to assemble my men in unique configurations and give them all a personality, but I still buy the Space Marines bitz packs, which are cheaper, to flesh out my tactical squads. Also, I believe that cheap models would help players thinking of starting a second, or third, or forth, or so on army

GW already sell snap fit 40k miniatures for most basic troop types, for their PoV they probably already meet this goal.

As for non basic troops that are in the various box sets this will detract from their other more detailed kits that cover these units. Why have a snap fit version and a detailed kit version of the same unit, it either dilutes sales of one box (so why sell it?) or mixed sales for both.

There is a very good case to be said though for the terrain peices. Point in case I bought the Mines of Moria box (admittidly at 50% off) just for the tomb peices, I have no interest in LotR outside of watching the films.

 notprop wrote:
GW already sell snap fit 40k miniatures for most basic troop types, for their PoV they probably already meet this goal.

As for non basic troops that are in the various box sets this will detract from their other more detailed kits that cover these units. Why have a snap fit version and a detailed kit version of the same unit, it either dilutes sales of one box (so why sell it?) or mixed sales for both.

There is a very good case to be said though for the terrain peices. Point in case I bought the Mines of Moria box (admittidly at 50% off) just for the tomb peices, I have no interest in LotR outside of watching the films.

The main issues of redundancy are currently a minor issue. GW made a Black Reach dread that came with the bare bones load out. They also sell the Dreadnought kit, which includes most of the other weapons, as well as the bonus of not being monopose. People still bought Dreadnoughts. Black Reach also had Terminators, which were direct competition against the Termie box set. Most people recently just use the AoBR ones because they were cheap.

Now imagine that people could get both of those bare bones units in a single box. They would sell quite well to beginners, who are the target audience for the proposed boxed sets. GW released Swordmasters but still sell resin ones.

The only real difference with this would be to not discontinue the sets. It is quite hard to find complete sets of bare plastic Skull Pass goblins these days. If they still made them, they'd sell them easily for anyone wanting to start goblins, or anyone wanting to boost their army size. With the current prices, many people I'm sure aren't upscaling their armies beyond what they NEED to get by.

But it's one thing to have a box game with those components and another to make a pseudo battleforce box with them.

I don't imagine for one second GW see any sales of the boxed games as a cheap model resource rather it ticks another box as a new hobbiest in the fold.

Also now i think on the matter, logistically you may well find that the whole set of models in any game might well be cast together on one über mould. If that were the case (my guess as to why the set is such value for money) then it may not be commercially viable to cast up all those components and divide them into two or more boxes.

I think I need to have explained to me one more time how selling a bunch of Orks for $50 "to make back the cost of the expensive mold" helps GW when it loses them $150 of sales of models from other, no less expensive molds.

Yeah, but if you want options you can grab the real sets. They're just good for unit fillers and such. I'm just bummed that there's no plastic Warboss or Deffkoptas for the time being, and that Space Hulk models won't be on sale again as far as we know. I think people would pay $100 for those models; about the price of two boxes, plus detail and the captain/librarian and minus the options.

At the time, people were balking at the price of Space Hulk, even though it was cheaper than all the models inside, never mind the unique poses and detail, or the other game components.