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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 09:20:12
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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I'm of the opinion that GW should just tell us what happened to the missing legions and primarchs.
But what do people think happened to the two legions and primarchs since the company probably won't tell us?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 09:28:16
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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No thanks, the hints they are giving are just enough in my opinion. Leave them as the mystery they are supposed to be.
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No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 10:20:58
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Executing Exarch
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Pilau Rice wrote:No thanks, the hints they are giving are just enough in my opinion. Leave them as the mystery they are supposed to be.
This. It is one of the most interesting mysteries in the 40k universe, and I think it should remain that way.
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DS:90-S+G++M--B--I+Pw40k05#+D++A++/eWD324R++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 11:19:38
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Regular Dakkanaut
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One was bad and got destroyed. The other was lost.
Both were removed from imperial records.
If we knew anything more then it would ruin the mystery!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 11:24:22
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Been Around the Block
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I've not been in this forum long but this is about the 10th thread I've seen on this topic. There is a search function you know.
Sorry, in a bad mood.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 12:05:04
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Pewling Menial
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Take it as an excuse to come up with your own, then you can make their associated legion with ore and post heresy stuff, and can have your own chapter not founded from any of the current ones
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 12:53:18
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Drop Trooper with Demo Charge
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Gamesworkshop have stated the reason there is so little information about them is to allow your own homebrew chapters/legions.
+ they couldn't make anything as int resting as what we know about them currently.
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Current Army: Death Korp of Krieg
Armies I have played:
Necrons
Space Marines (Ice Lords)
Death Guard
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 20:11:00
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
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At least one was destroyed due to mutation/flaws in his genetic make-up. Sanguinius pretty much says as much in Fear to Tread.
I would assume the other was destroyed either for similar reasons, or for disobedience. The Emperor was a harsh master.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/23 20:12:13
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 20:19:20
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Cultiststeve wrote:Gamesworkshop have stated the reason there is so little information about them is to allow your own homebrew chapters/legions.
People say that, but in 20 years I've never seen such a statement from GW.
The missing Legions are there for flavour. IMO, they're not actually intended for you to turn into your own homebrew Chapter, since having them or their descendants running around in the 'current' Imperial time would somewhat defy the point of them having been removed from Imperial records... Although as with anything GW, ultimately you can do what you want with the background in your own games.
They just supposed to be a cool story hook, nothing more.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 10:37:30
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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When the Legions were originally listed I vaguely remember seeing that one was deleted from Imperial records and one was expunged from Imperial records.
But I have never been able to find the image again, does anyone else remember this or is it just me?
I guess that would have fit in with what Omegus says, one could have been deleted due to no fault of its own and the other expunged due to not accepting the Emperor as their master.
Was it mentioned as being the Lost and the Forgotten in The First Heretic?
Rick Priestley, I think, said that one of their original intentions with the Lost Legions was that they were deleted as a reward for turning their backs on Horus after fighting on his side, as they were supposed to have fought with him during the Heresy.
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No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 10:46:39
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Executing Exarch
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I think it was the "Lost and the Purged" that they were referred to as. Whether that means that one was lost due to an accident and the other purged for rebelling, or that they were both lost to Chaos and purged is anyones guess, although most people seem to favour the first theory.
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DS:90-S+G++M--B--I+Pw40k05#+D++A++/eWD324R++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 10:54:05
Subject: Re:The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle
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I only know a few things that I have gleaned from the HH Series.
1. Both of the legions were destroyed for whatever reason be it heresy or whatnot and the SW were involved in at least one of their destruction's.
2. All of the Astartes from at least one of the lost legions (although it could have been both) were folded into the Ultramarines Legion. I particularly like this seeing as the geneseed of the Ultramarines was the most widely used to form chapters after the divide of the legions therefore many chapters have the lost legions genecode inside of them and have no clue.
Thats all I can really remember at the moment......bed time I think.
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Heralds of Rot CSM 4000 pts
"In short there is no Order only Chaos eternal so lament and be quelled with fear if you serve the False Emperor or accept the gifts bestowed by the pantheon of the four gods and rejoice as the galaxy burns." - Unknown Wordbearer |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 11:00:33
Subject: Re:The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:
1. Both of the legions were destroyed for whatever reason be it heresy or whatnot and the SW were involved in at least one of their destruction's.
Boastings of a blowhard and braggart in Propero Burns
Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:2. All of the Astartes from at least one of the lost legions (although it could have been both) were folded into the Ultramarines Legion. I particularly like this seeing as the geneseed of the Ultramarines was the most widely used to form chapters after the divide of the legions therefore many chapters have the lost legions genecode inside of them and have no clue.
Put down as a rumour by a fellow Word Bearer in The First Heretic, i'm inclined to agree
Both might be true, but that's my opinion on each ...
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No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 11:33:35
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Smokin' Skorcha Driver
Deepest, darkest Buckinghamshire, UK
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 11:51:00
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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Soon maybe...the cover for the upcoming audio book The Sigillite has Malcador seated on a throne (probably not the Golden Throne - it looks too small and 'unmajestic') with skulls marked 'II' and 'XI' before the armrests.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 11:52:35
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:31:31
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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insaniak wrote: Cultiststeve wrote:Gamesworkshop have stated the reason there is so little information about them is to allow your own homebrew chapters/legions.
People say that, but in 20 years I've never seen such a statement from GW.
There's a good reason for that... the notion of "missing legions" entered the fluff (in 1989) long before the number of first founding legions was fixed at twenty (in about 1994).
They are just there to generate a bit of cheap mystery; Black Library have cleverly spread a few in-universe rumours and suggestions, but nothing concrete has been revealed about them.
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Red Hunters: 2000 points Grey Knights: 2000 points Black Legion: 600 points and counting |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 23:19:47
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Pilau Rice wrote:When the Legions were originally listed I vaguely remember seeing that one was deleted from Imperial records and one was expunged from Imperial records.
I think you're just merging separate Legion lists in your head. They've been listed as expunged and as deleted at different times, but as far as I can remember they've always used the same wording for both.
Rick Priestley, I think, said that one of their original intentions with the Lost Legions was that they were deleted as a reward for turning their backs on Horus after fighting on his side, as they were supposed to have fought with him during the Heresy.
I don't recall that specifically, but the 2nd edition fluff did mention that while the two Legions were no longer known it was 'likely' that they fought in the Heresy at least in the early stages, and probably on Horus's side.
That woudl appear to have fallen by the wayside now, as the Horus Heresy novels have introduced the idea that they were long gone well before the Heresy started.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/25 10:48:07
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Slippery Scout Biker
Aylesbury, UK
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Tadashi wrote:Soon maybe...the cover for the upcoming audio book The Sigillite has Malcador seated on a throne (probably not the Golden Throne - it looks too small and 'unmajestic') with skulls marked 'II' and 'XI' before the armrests.
This is something I'm quite looking forward to, hopefully it will shed some light on the missing legions.
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5000 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/25 15:02:34
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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I like to believe that one of the missing Primarchs is Sigmar in WHFB.
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Iron Warriors 442nd Grand Battalion: 10k points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/25 16:52:23
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp
York/London(for weekends) oh for the glory of the british rail industry
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insaniak wrote: Cultiststeve wrote:Gamesworkshop have stated the reason there is so little information about them is to allow your own homebrew chapters/legions.
People say that, but in 20 years I've never seen such a statement from GW.
The missing Legions are there for flavour. IMO, they're not actually intended for you to turn into your own homebrew Chapter, since having them or their descendants running around in the 'current' Imperial time would somewhat defy the point of them having been removed from Imperial records... Although as with anything GW, ultimately you can do what you want with the background in your own games.
They just supposed to be a cool story hook, nothing more.
As Insaniak has said, GW has never said that, the introduction of the missing legions is a simple but effective plot hook. Having homebrew chapters running around 40k descended from them would be a bad idea (imagine an obese woman in spandex and you will see the level of shoehorning required).
Coolyo294 wrote:I like to believe that one of the missing Primarchs is Sigmar in WHFB.
It was believed he was for a while until GW wanted to make the two game universes unique. There is also the fact that if the Great Crusade fleet took one look at the WHFB world the exterminus order would be made straight away.
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Relictors: 1500pts
its safe to say that relictors are the greatest army a man , nay human can own.
I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf. - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show
Avatar 720 wrote:Eau de Ulthwé - The new fragrance; by Eldrad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/25 17:55:05
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor
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English Assassin wrote:
There's a good reason for that... the notion of "missing legions" entered the fluff (in 1989) long before the number of first founding legions was fixed at twenty (in about 1994).
They are just there to generate a bit of cheap mystery; Black Library have cleverly spread a few in-universe rumours and suggestions, but nothing concrete has been revealed about them.
Weren[t they added as a throwback/homage to the two Roman Legions whose banners were lost (in Germany, IIRC) and which were never rebuilt/reinstated?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/25 21:44:59
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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That's another story that generally comes up in these discussions... but the Romans lost more than 2 Legions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/26 09:37:27
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor
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Correct; they lost 3 at that battle. They also had more than 20 Legions. (total, not at that battle.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/26 10:03:12
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Adolescent Youth with Potential
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CrimsonPrime wrote:Take it as an excuse to come up with your own, then you can make their associated legion with ore and post heresy stuff, and can have your own chapter not founded from any of the current ones 
This is what I have done, included a whole back story to why he wasn't able to be found by the Emperor.
PDF attached
Filename |
History of Plasma Eagles.pdf |
Download
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Description |
History of the Plasma Eagles |
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76 Kbytes
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/26 11:21:21
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Fixture of Dakka
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I'm sure at one point there were three Legions marked as "records deleted"; the Raven Guard are a fairly late addition to the roster of First Founding Chapters/Legions as I recall (they appeared around 2nd edition time).
In addition, the article providing the rules for creating Space Marine armies for 1st edition Space Marine in WD 126 gives us the Relictors "Chapter" who subsequently appeared in a battle report in WD 136. There's one of your missing Legions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/26 14:57:07
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Bran Dawri wrote: English Assassin wrote:
There's a good reason for that... the notion of "missing legions" entered the fluff (in 1989) long before the number of first founding legions was fixed at twenty (in about 1994).
They are just there to generate a bit of cheap mystery; Black Library have cleverly spread a few in-universe rumours and suggestions, but nothing concrete has been revealed about them.
Weren[t they added as a throwback/homage to the two Roman Legions whose banners were lost (in Germany, IIRC) and which were never rebuilt/reinstated?
If there was an intentional historical reference, it was more likely to the two Roman legions disbanded in disgrace after their betrayals during the Batavian rebellion, rather than those lost at (as I presume you are thinking) the Teutoberger forest.
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Red Hunters: 2000 points Grey Knights: 2000 points Black Legion: 600 points and counting |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/26 15:59:00
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp
York/London(for weekends) oh for the glory of the british rail industry
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AndrewGPaul wrote:I'm sure at one point there were three Legions marked as "records deleted"; the Raven Guard are a fairly late addition to the roster of First Founding Chapters/Legions as I recall (they appeared around 2nd edition time).
In addition, the article providing the rules for creating Space Marine armies for 1st edition Space Marine in WD 126 gives us the Relictors "Chapter" who subsequently appeared in a battle report in WD 136. There's one of your missing Legions. 
This no longer holds any wieght due to the fact that the Relictors founding has been named.
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Relictors: 1500pts
its safe to say that relictors are the greatest army a man , nay human can own.
I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf. - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show
Avatar 720 wrote:Eau de Ulthwé - The new fragrance; by Eldrad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/26 17:50:27
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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BluntmanDC wrote: AndrewGPaul wrote:I'm sure at one point there were three Legions marked as "records deleted"; the Raven Guard are a fairly late addition to the roster of First Founding Chapters/Legions as I recall (they appeared around 2nd edition time).
In addition, the article providing the rules for creating Space Marine armies for 1st edition Space Marine in WD 126 gives us the Relictors "Chapter" who subsequently appeared in a battle report in WD 136. There's one of your missing Legions. 
This no longer holds any wieght due to the fact that the Relictors founding has been named.
And I believe that in any case you both mean the Valedictors.
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Red Hunters: 2000 points Grey Knights: 2000 points Black Legion: 600 points and counting |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/26 19:16:24
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp
York/London(for weekends) oh for the glory of the british rail industry
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English Assassin wrote: BluntmanDC wrote: AndrewGPaul wrote:I'm sure at one point there were three Legions marked as "records deleted"; the Raven Guard are a fairly late addition to the roster of First Founding Chapters/Legions as I recall (they appeared around 2nd edition time).
In addition, the article providing the rules for creating Space Marine armies for 1st edition Space Marine in WD 126 gives us the Relictors "Chapter" who subsequently appeared in a battle report in WD 136. There's one of your missing Legions. 
This no longer holds any wieght due to the fact that the Relictors founding has been named.
And I believe that in any case you both mean the Valedictors.
Well no i was rebuting his claim so i did mean relictors.
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Relictors: 1500pts
its safe to say that relictors are the greatest army a man , nay human can own.
I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf. - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show
Avatar 720 wrote:Eau de Ulthwé - The new fragrance; by Eldrad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/26 20:24:34
Subject: The Missing Legions and Primarchs
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Fixture of Dakka
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I meant Valedictors, though.
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