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So i've got a game next week against an opponent for my video blog, and he's going to be rolling out no less than 18 obliterators. I'll be using templars, and typically i go with 3 land raiders, 3 units of termies and a couple of basic squads (which usually just hide in the land raiders). I think in a straigh fight i'd take them - the problem is getting up close and personal.

Anyone got any pointers? Anyone ran into this double force org monstrosity yet?

Lots of plasma and lascannons in cover. Force those invulnerable saves...

The problem with plasma is that I only have it on tactical marines who i'd rather not have to put in the open to feel the wrath of the obliterators - Templar Dreadnoughts can't take plasma cannons would you believe?

I still couldn't believe it when he said he was using 18 oblits. It's honestly insane....

Then put lightning claws on 2 marshals with chaplains and lightning claw terminators and rush them!

That is my current plan! I run a horrible marshal who has termie armour, a thunder hammer, a shield , and a mantle - so he's a beast in challenges and a fight. I think that's pretty much going to be the bulk of the plan - beast the land raiders across the table as fast as humanly possible, and pray that I get 1 (maybe 2) turns of movement across the table.

And bolter fire, lots of bolter fire. Preferably from LR crusaders. Eventually, they will fail saves.

Yeah - that's one thing that Crusaders are boss at, pumping a large number of wounds onto units. The Math hammer isn't good on this one either (assuming use of Lascannons)

18 Shots

12 Hits

4 Damage Results

2 Pens

Potentially at least 1 dead land raider a turn - that's not pretty.

You require some kind of Cannon that fires laserbeams at them...

Some kind of... Lasercannon... Or lascannon...

I have 2 on my godhammer landraider, but past that i'm out. I have a tri las that I could field, but that wouldn't last 5 seconds in this game I reckon.

Well, this will become an uphill battle for you.
18 Oblits are 1350 pts and so a large part of his army.
They will wreck two or three LR's with ease.
I'd take an MSU army for target saturation.

Termies could serve as a distraction tool, with storm shields.
Let them deep strike and force the Oblits to deal with them (rapid fire plasma).
In the meanwhile your MSU units going full speed, 18'', approach his front ranks.

Some Preds with 3 lascannons each or Vindicators could give fire support instantly killing Oblits.

That could be a plan - I could very easily run 6 units of terminators. I could even run the marshal solo (he's immune to instant death) just to give him the temptation of shooting him.

Do you not think that the predator/vindicator would be a waste of time? If i don't go first, they're toast.

 liam0404 wrote:
That could be a plan - I could very easily run 6 units of terminators. I could even run the marshal solo (he's immune to instant death) just to give him the temptation of shooting him.

Do you not think that the predator/vindicator would be a waste of time? If i don't go first, they're toast.

Well, in our gaming group we had a WAAC player fielding 8 or 9 Oblits in every game, even at the 1500 pt level. So I know how it feels.

Predators and Vindicators are still worth it if you go 2nd, since they are his main targets due to the fact that they can instantly kill the Oblits. This will eventually leave your Rhinos untouched. Target saturation is key here.

Oblits are not that good against a foot horde. 18 oblits would really struggle against black tide.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Oblits are not that good against a foot horde. 18 oblits would really struggle against black tide.

Right. But they will eventually be hampered by terrain and lash Sorcerers.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Oblits are not that good against a foot horde. 18 oblits would really struggle against black tide.

You know you might be onto something here.....

I could easily field 100+ Marines. How many attacks in close combat to oblits have? I know they have chanifists.

EDIT: Yeah the other 2 elements are indeed 2 lash princes.

Oblits have 2 attacks with powerfist

Well, with chainfists they're striking last - so you're going to get your Attacks from whatever you're using - so close combat is where you want to be. (...as a Black Templar. Who knew?)

The biggest weakness by far of Obliterators is that if they're stuck in combat, they can't fire. At all. So you want something that can engage them quickly and hold on while the rest of your force catches up. Hammernators sound perfect - deep strike them in - but not knowing the BT codex I'm not sure if you'd have anything else that could do the same.

Land Raiders are a bad idea. Considering they'll get shot down in short order you won't be able to make the most of their higher points values. A unit of normal Marines will actually last longer on the way in due to the cover saves they'll hopefully be getting.

Lastly, don't be afraid to take and use lots of Bolters - putting that many shots down, you're bound to force a failed save or two. And in a list with that few models, every wound an Obliterator suffers is a critical blow.

A horde of 100+ Marines would be an option. BT may eventually "fall forward" after they have been shot which could speed up their advance. Use it to your advantage.
Lash Princes should be dealt with asap since they could push back your units (or bunching them up so that the Oblits could shoot them with plasma cannons). Cyclones could bring down DP's easily.

If I were you, I would do both hording sm and land raiders with lascannons. Each turn he will have to make a disition to either attempt to kill the space marines and risk a lascannon death or blow up your land raiders wich will give your horde a chance to get into cc with them.

NOTE: obliterators are able to deep strike, BUT are slow and purposeful (just thought I should point it out)

hm I would take the anti-psi-vow for the EC, so you start 6" closer to him and your defence vs lash is 5+

Then I would indeed pack Termies (assault termies with hammer and shield) and Landraiders, push forward, go flat out. 18 LCs will score 2 pens so maybe kill one raider.
Then unload your assault termies on them and they will die horribly. Maybe you could drive up some rhinos hidden behind the raiders. which can flood the opponent with more lads.

suggestion 2: You are playing an objective mission?

Kill is weak troops and just hang out.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Then put lightning claws on 2 marshals with chaplains and lightning claw terminators and rush them!

Interesting idea to use terminators with ligthing claws as a speed bumb for a single unit of oblis.

Termies make their bucket load of attacks which all harmlessly bounce off oblis' 2+ armor and they instakill you with powerfists.

 -Nazdreg- wrote:
hm I would take the anti-psi-vow for the EC, so you start 6" closer to him and your defence vs lash is 5+

Then I would indeed pack Termies (assault termies with hammer and shield) and Landraiders, push forward, go flat out. 18 LCs will score 2 pens so maybe kill one raider.
Then unload your assault termies on them and they will die horribly. Maybe you could drive up some rhinos hidden behind the raiders. which can flood the opponent with more lads.

suggestion 2: You are playing an objective mission?

Kill is weak troops and just hang out.

I don't think Land Raiders are all that helpful, you would have better luck abusing Righteous Zeal instead, and rushing with the black tide. The EC anti-psyker vow is boss though for this mission. And you may have to take Grimaldus to bring everyone forward.

Emp's Champ with Anti-Psyker Vow
Grimaldus

10 Assault Terminators 6x TH/SS 4x LC's (These guys go in front, with Grimaldus.)
10 Sword Brethren with Infiltrate (to start closer)
10 Sword Brethren with Infiltrate (to start closer)

10 Crusaders with Powerfist and Meltagun
10 Crusaders with Powerfist and Meltagun
10 Crusaders with Powerfist and Meltagun
10 Crusaders with Powerfist and Meltagun


This is about 1800-1900ish points, and is 70 bodies rushing you. You can add or swap for neophytes to get more, but basically, you put the terminators in front in the center, and have everything else close enough to them that Grimaldus' bubble will bring them along. The TH/SS's are for bouncing plasmacannon shots on your terminators, which will most likely be the main target of your opponent, but you really want to charge him with 60 power armored marines.

Alternatively, you could go with a marshal instead to give everyone LD10 for better chance of passing Righteous Zeal, and give him a SS and Mantle to soak wounds for the terminators as well. If you're really adventurous, you can take Rhinos (don't embark in them) to shield your folks on the advance as well, giving you some cover, blocking LOS and preventing him from moving you around as easily with the lash.

Then....CHHAAAAARRRRGGGEEEEE.

 illuknisaa wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Then put lightning claws on 2 marshals with chaplains and lightning claw terminators and rush them!

Interesting idea to use terminators with ligthing claws as a speed bumb for a single unit of oblis.

Termies make their bucket load of attacks which all harmlessly bounce off oblis' 2+ armor and they instakill you with powerfists.

So I wasn't the only one thinking this!

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, this will become an uphill battle for you.
18 Oblits are 1350 pts and so a large part of his army.

Yeah the other 2 elements are indeed 2 lash princes.

What is he running for scoring units? The Oblits and 2 Princes should run him about 1700pts? (Don't play Chaos). In most games now scoring is really important and if your not running a buch of scoring units then your going to have an uphill battle. Kill his scoring and then just get to as many objectives as you can and go to ground if you get shot. Big squad sizes should help. Dealing with the Princes will be a pain as the Lash will pull you off objectives and BT don't have much psyker defence from what I remember.

Big Guns will be hard though as then you would have to deal with the Oblits.

Edit: I am assuming you are playing 2K with 2 FoC. That would me he needs at least 4 units of troops, so I imagine they have to be tiny.

From what I'm hearing his List will look a bit like this:
Daemon prince
Mark of slaanesh
Lash of submission
Wings (he probably would take these)
155
Times two
310

Obliterator
75
Times eighteen
1350

That leaves 460 points left for troops. I guessing he will run two squads of seven plague marines in rhinos.
But if he needs at least 4 units of troops he might not take the wings (leaving 500 points for troops) and grabs 4 squads of 6 normal chaos marines in rhinos.
That's what I'd do anyway

Take a gunline chuck loads of kraks at him. This will instant kill the oblitz sooner or later.
Trust your gunline.

6x 5-man TH/SS Terminator Squads in Drop Pods. Put Troops Choices in Drop Pods as well, have a rain of death descend on him on turn 1.

ive probably missed something but how can he have 18 oblits ?

Crimson-King2120 wrote:
ive probably missed something but how can he have 18 oblits ?

Double FOC at 2k points.

 whitedragon wrote:

 -Nazdreg- wrote:
hm I would take the anti-psi-vow for the EC, so you start 6" closer to him and your defence vs lash is 5+

Then I would indeed pack Termies (assault termies with hammer and shield) and Landraiders, push forward, go flat out. 18 LCs will score 2 pens so maybe kill one raider.
Then unload your assault termies on them and they will die horribly. Maybe you could drive up some rhinos hidden behind the raiders. which can flood the opponent with more lads.

suggestion 2: You are playing an objective mission?

Kill is weak troops and just hang out.

I don't think Land Raiders are all that helpful, you would have better luck abusing Righteous Zeal instead, and rushing with the black tide. The EC anti-psyker vow is boss though for this mission. And you may have to take Grimaldus to bring everyone forward.

Emp's Champ with Anti-Psyker Vow
Grimaldus

10 Assault Terminators 6x TH/SS 4x LC's (These guys go in front, with Grimaldus.)
10 Sword Brethren with Infiltrate (to start closer)
10 Sword Brethren with Infiltrate (to start closer)

10 Crusaders with Powerfist and Meltagun
10 Crusaders with Powerfist and Meltagun
10 Crusaders with Powerfist and Meltagun
10 Crusaders with Powerfist and Meltagun


This is about 1800-1900ish points, and is 70 bodies rushing you. You can add or swap for neophytes to get more, but basically, you put the terminators in front in the center, and have everything else close enough to them that Grimaldus' bubble will bring them along. The TH/SS's are for bouncing plasmacannon shots on your terminators, which will most likely be the main target of your opponent, but you really want to charge him with 60 power armored marines.

Alternatively, you could go with a marshal instead to give everyone LD10 for better chance of passing Righteous Zeal, and give him a SS and Mantle to soak wounds for the terminators as well. If you're really adventurous, you can take Rhinos (don't embark in them) to shield your folks on the advance as well, giving you some cover, blocking LOS and preventing him from moving you around as easily with the lash.

Then....CHHAAAAARRRRGGGEEEEE.

This is how Id handle it as an Ork player, just swamp those hookers like nobodies business. Yea, Oblits are badasses against vehicles, but when you horde them, they arnt so tough.