OMG - Prices

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**mwnciboo**

Sorry complete missed the v... LOL

That said, your point on Valve makes no sense to me, can you explain it.

**heartserenade**

Kinda long explanation, but basically Valve is like a cat: loyal, friendly and the internet loves him.

Spoiler:

**A Town Called Malus**

heartserenade wrote:
Kinda long explanation, but basically Valve is like a cat: loyal, friendly and the internet loves him.

Spoiler:

That is true until Half Life 3 is mentioned.

**Palindrome**

mwnciboo wrote:
Sorry complete missed the v... LOL

That said, your point on Valve makes no sense to me, can you explain it.

Valve is gigantic, The last I heard it is valued at $2.5 billion (and is probably quite a lot more now) yet it is privately owned and I very much doubt it will ever be Valve PLC. It is also one of the most trusted names in gaming, in terms of big names it is the most trusted.

**English Assassin**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
heartserenade wrote:
Kinda long explanation, but basically Valve is like a cat: loyal, friendly and the internet loves him.

Spoiler:

That is true until Half Life 3 is mentioned.

Not being much of a computer gamer, I don't get half of those, but I'm still fairly sure CCP would be "Utter bastard with whom you're obliged to associate.".

**Uhlan**

heartserenade wrote:
Kinda long explanation, but basically Valve is like a cat: loyal, friendly and the internet loves him.

Spoiler:

I don't get most of these descriptions. Perhaps there is some nuance I'm not following?

BTW, CATS are NOT loyal and only friendly when they want something.

**mwnciboo**

mwnciboo wrote:

Anyway you cannot stop a Company becoming a PLC, it's kind of difficult thing to address. It's almost a tenet of Capitalism, that when a company gets above a certain size it turns into a faceless corporate entity.

VALVE CORPORATION, so it's already 50% of the way there, all it needs to do now is become a PLC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Corporation

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/technology/valve-a-video-game-maker-with-few-rules.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all

So Mr Newell hasn't need to get outside investment yet...No Company this size will survive being Private for that long. Give it time.

**heartserenade**

Spoiler:

**Alfndrate**

The microsoft one was because they're always asking you to pay for content (ala a foreign friend not understanding some practices of paying for their own stuff/not having the local currency), and the red ring around his junk is the whole, stereotype that foreigners aren't as "conservative" on the whole sex thing (from a US standpoint) as well as the red ring of death...

Actually most of those aren't computer gaming related at all, they're console based (with the exception of Valve and blizzard). Though EA and Microsoft do put out both versions...

**Harriticus**

Anyone want a finecast unicorn for $16.50?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod1710046a

**12thRonin**

That's the old "pissed off elvish pony" with a horn on it. Unicorns are supposed to be magistic and noble looking. This ain't either.

**Wardragoon**

Why the hate for sony games, I have found Sony produced games (e.g. uncharted) are quite good, and being a ps3 owner, bethesda is more like that friend who completely ignores you for his girlfriend (xbox).

Currently starting to look at BFG, and I have to say I think my wallets in love, fairly cheap to start a fleet.

**Palindrome**

mwnciboo wrote:

So Mr Newell hasn't need to get outside investment yet...No Company this size will survive being Private for that long. Give it time.

Given how profitable Steam is I very much doubt that Valve will need outside investment, they are already self funding branching out into hardware (including a 'VR' headset and a rumoured new console). I would be utterly amazed if Valve ever becomes a PLC, In fact Gabe Newel has stated that he would rather that the company was broken up.

It is not inevitable that a company will become a PLC, even giant ones.

**mstenger404**

I just went on GW's website to look up stuff I wanted to get from a discounted 'order-by-phone' retailer.

(prices in USD)

Baneblades for $185

Razerwire fore $20 instead of $10 2 weeks ago

Leman Russ for $83

SM battleforce for $180

Skyshield for $70

Paints are now $6

When did this happen? I swear I just got my order form only last week. If this isn't a joke I don't know how I can keep playing. Airsoft and PC gaming being my other hobbies are already cheaper. I don't even have a 2000pt army yet.

**notprop**

Are you on the Austrailian site perchance?

**KalashnikovMarine**

notprop wrote:
Are you on the Austrailian site perchance?

I think that happens at least once every price complaint thread.

**mstenger404**

Oh gak. Yeah good call. I was wondering why the help line number looked funky.

Now the real question is who got on my computer and played this sick prank on me.

**mwnciboo**

Yeah if you went into a Coma in 2006 and awoke now, you would be so shocked by the GW price hike you would end up back in a Coma.

**Sidstyler**

mwnciboo wrote:
Yeah if you went into a Coma in 2006 and awoke now, you would be so shocked by the GW price hike you would end up back in a Coma.

Then you'd get stuck in a cycle of going into a coma every time you wake up from your last coma until you inevitably die.

That would suck.

**mwnciboo**

I sense a new meme coming on....

**Eilif**

Kaldor wrote:

However, comparing them to historical manufacturers is kinda like "you only need to look at green plastic army men to see how over-priced GW is".

Please explain what you mean by this.
There are historical miniatures companies putting out figures and vehicles, in metal and plastic that are as well sculpted as GW at a fraction of the price (Perry, etc). Historical miniatures are a great reminder that you can produce high quality plastic and metal kits and they don't have to cost $3(plastic) to $20(metal, finecast) each.

Of course there are also those that are not as nice as GW, but there are also alot of sub-par sci-fi miniatures as well. Still, equating any of these to "plastic army men" is just not correct.

**frozenwastes**

Yeah, historicals are awesome. Probably the best thing is that many of sculptors don't try to do GW's cartoony style so you can get some great sculpts with actual human proportions.

Another good thing about them is that the rules makers and miniature makers can't make products that don't stand on their own. The miniatures have to be good enough (and offer a good value for the money) and the rules have to be good games. This is because no one can copyright historical eras and if a rule set is bad or a miniature range is too expensive, you can just pick and choose which rules and which miniatures from different manufacturers. Everything has to stand on its own merit in terms of sculpting, value and game design.

As for miniature quality, take this example:

Lots of detail? Yep. It's also less than an inch long.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mwnciboo wrote:

So Mr Newell hasn't need to get outside investment yet...No Company this size will survive being Private for that long. Give it time.

You do know that the current trend in finance is to take public companies private right? Private equity is on the rise right now, not going public if you don't have to.

**Alfndrate**

Really? Wish facebook listened to that trend lol... I hear they're bleeding money.

**mwnciboo**

Who has the capital to go Private from PLC (by PLC I am talking LISTED and TRADED not a minimum £50k share PLC) ? Last I checked no one was particularly loaded with excess cash in the current climate. If you mean Private Companies are less likely to go PLC during a Recession, I will give you that. But once you are a PLC the sheer amount of money to buy back shares, or get a Billionaire to buy it all back is like waiting to see a unicorn.

**A Town Called Malus**

mwnciboo wrote:
Who has the capital to go Private from PLC? Last I checked no one was particularly loaded with excess cash in the current climate. If you mean Private Companies are less likely to go PLC during a Recession, I will give you that. But once you are a PLC the sheer amount of money to buy back shares, or get a Billionaire to buy it all back is like waiting to see a unicorn.

Bruce Wayne.

**frozenwastes**

mwnciboo wrote:
Who has the capital to go Private from PLC (by PLC I am talking LISTED and TRADED not a minimum £50k share PLC) ? Last I checked no one was particularly loaded with excess cash in the current climate. If you mean Private Companies are less likely to go PLC during a Recession, I will give you that. But once you are a PLC the sheer amount of money to buy back shares, or get a Billionaire to buy it all back is like waiting to see a unicorn.

Right now there are private equity funds waiting for opportunities to buy out publicly traded companies. Recessions are the perfect time to do it as revenue and share prices can get temporarily suppressed.

Private equity as a portion of capitalization is on the rise worldwide. Has been for the last decade, even from 2008 to now.

I don't know what this has to do with the topic at hand though. I guess it's more about wanting to be right on the internet or something.

**Eilif**

frozenwastes wrote:

Another good thing about them is that the rules makers and miniature makers can't make products that don't stand on their own. The miniatures have to be good enough (and offer a good value for the money) and the rules have to be good games. This is because no one can copyright historical eras and if a rule set is bad or a miniature range is too expensive, you can just pick and choose which rules and which miniatures from different manufacturers. Everything has to stand on its own merit in terms of sculpting, value and game design.

As for miniature quality, take this example:

Spoiler:

Lots of detail? Yep. It's also less than an inch long.

That's an excellent example. Good point also about the way competition works in the historical market based largely on quality. Some companies do try to set themselves apart by making miniatures that vary a bit in scale (chasing scale creep) or by being more or less "heroic" (see the proportions of TAG vs Perry). However, by and large, the subject matter is set, and the two main ways to compete are to either make a better sculpt of an historical subject, or to make a more affordable plastic version or both. Except for very obscure eras where it can be hard to make a profit or find enough buyers, historical makers can't just say "Only we make this unit, you have to buy from us".

All of which unfortunately does nothing for me as I only play Sci-Fi and Fantasy games. If I decided to make a fantasy human army though....

**mwnciboo**

frozenwastes wrote:
mwnciboo wrote:
Who has the capital to go Private from PLC (by PLC I am talking LISTED and TRADED not a minimum £50k share PLC) ? Last I checked no one was particularly loaded with excess cash in the current climate. If you mean Private Companies are less likely to go PLC during a Recession, I will give you that. But once you are a PLC the sheer amount of money to buy back shares, or get a Billionaire to buy it all back is like waiting to see a unicorn.

Right now there are private equity funds waiting for opportunities to buy out publicly traded companies. Recessions are the perfect time to do it as revenue and share prices can get temporarily suppressed.

Private equity as a portion of capitalization is on the rise worldwide. Has been for the last decade, even from 2008 to now.

I don't know what this has to do with the topic at hand though. I guess it's more about wanting to be right on the internet or something.

It resulted from my disappointment that almost all Businesses, once they become PLC become much more Corporate and more Share Holder/ Investor focused, than Consumer focus. However I am not above admitting that I was wrong, I have read up some of the stuff you've posted and you are quite right private equity funds are doing this, mea culpa.

**frozenwastes**

mwnciboo wrote:

It resulted from my disappointment that almost all Businesses, once they become PLC become much more Corporate and more Share Holder/ Investor focused, than Consumer focus. However I am not above admitting that I was wrong, I have read up some of the stuff you've posted and you are quite right private equity funds are doing this, mea culpa.

Well you're right about your overall point. Whether it's private equity or a PLC, it's about the money. Management often loves going public as it means they get to line their pockets while the share holders take the risk.

When something is big enough to either be public or be a large private company, it's very rare for things to still be about the customer.

**English Assassin**

Harriticus wrote:
Anyone want a finecast unicorn for $16.50?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod1710046a

Hey, don't I recognise that goat-pony thing from twenty years ago?

http://www.solegends.com/marauder/mm83elfmageunicorn.htm

Why yes I do...