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Man, I am such a game whore. My wife makes fun of me. And this time I'm not even waiting for someone else to pitch it to me - I'm bringing it on myself. It's sad, really. However, I like the idea of planning out sweeping campaigns that could involve space battles and land battles, a la the Forgeworld Imperial Armor campaigns. I can also download all the rules and various game aids - everything I need except the models - for free. As I like to say, free is the new awesome.

So, tell me about Battlefleet Gothic. What's the good, the bad, and the ugly? Will I enjoy making fleets to correspond to my Blood Angels and/or Blood Ravens and/or Tau? Or will it be an expensive and lame waste of time?

I'm also curious about what the expense of BFG really looks like? With the rulebook, codices, and game aids all free, all you need to buy are the models. Capital ships are between $20 and $60, small ships are about $15, and really small ships are $15 for a blister of three... and that's assuming I'm buying new (GW direct order), not beat up used models off eBay that will require stripping and repairing.

So, what's the actual cost of BFG?

What's the system like? Is it fun, lame, night-perfect, or flawed? What's the good, the bad, and the ugly?

I have played a few games and own a small fleet (a battleship and 4 cruiser) and I must say I enjoyed it. The rules are relatively simple when compared to 40k and the fleets seem to be balanced (except for the Necrons IMHO). The major downside is that it seems few people play it (atleast around where I game), so finding opponents might be hard.

I've only played one or two games (my first ever wargaming experience too), and it was enjoyable, though now I can hardly remember what it was like after my myriad of other spaceship games with other rules.

However, the models are excellent and the game is overall pretty cheap. Consider that a standard list at 1500pts (pretty normal value for games) for the Imperial Navy will look something like this;


Fleet Admiral - One reroll/75pts

Imperial Emperor Class Battleship -Assault Boats /370pts

Imperial Gothic Class Cruiser - /180pts
Imperial Dominator Class Cruiser - /190pts

Imperial Lunar Class Cruiser - /180pts
Imperial Lunar Class Cruiser - /180pts

Imperial Dauntless Class Light Cruiser - Torpedo/110pts
Imperial Dauntless Class Light Cruiser - Torpedo/110pts

Imperial Sword Class Frigate - /35pts
Imperial Sword Class Frigate - /35pts
Imperial Sword Class Frigate - /35pts

You're looking at ~$160. Chaos will also be pretty cheap, the other races will be a little more as their models are metal. However, at 1500pts, you should be looking at no more than ~$200 for most fleets, even cheaper if you can get some good used ones.

The game is no longer supported by GW in that there will be no new rules and what-not, but there is still a significant fan base who create custom rules and updates for balance. The user 'Horizon' on these boards was a part of a GW sanctioned committee to update the rules, which can be found online in the 2010 FAQ which greatly balances the game.

Honestly, its a great investment, and their are a multitude of other great rules for spaceship combat that you can use the BFG models for. See my sig for a link to a rule set I enjoy with complete spaceship design rules (and pre made ship designs for BFG fleets).

You won't regret buying two fleets so you can run campaigns, epic space battles, and for display/fluff purposes.

BFG is one of the better games GW has made.

I have a cheesy Necron fleet, but only because all the other fleets had been taken by other members of my FLGS.

I love the game, and it has the easiest table set up ever.

Black surface, flick white paint, get some rocks from outside, buy a few "half-spheres" of foam from walmart and you got a beautiful void table.

And being an American, the metric system is a nice change of pace.

As others have said, its very affordable and easy to pick up.


If you have a good sized 40k crowd, try and see if anyone is interested in starting it up. Rules are free and the models are pretty cheap.

I'm increasingly intrigued. The low cost of getting started means that I'll probably give it a shot eventually. I'll take my time about it, read through the rules, dig into my local community and find out if anyone's got a fleet.

Has anyone got any tips for building Space Marine and Tau forces? Those are the fleets I'm going to play.

Well, for Tau you actually have two options; you can use the GW fleet, or the FW fleet. Both have strengths and weaknesses, but the FW fleet has the advantage of looking infinitely better.

A competitive SM list will have a strong core of strike cruisers and a solid amount of escorts. You can include a Battle Barge for fluff reasons, but its generally regarded as underwhelming when you can stock up on strike cruisers.

Look up the 2010 FAQ for BFG and all the fleets. It makes the game better, and gives marines more options.

 Blacksails wrote:

Well, for Tau you actually have two options; you can use the GW fleet, or the FW fleet. Both have strengths and weaknesses, but the FW fleet has the advantage of looking infinitely better.

Are the two fleets separate armies, or different lists? Can I use both FW and GW, or are they incompatible?

Can you give me an idea of the differences? I strongly agree that the FW Tau ships are far superior in every way. If I can't use the two fleets together, I am seriously not going to even bother buying any of the GW ones. If I can use them together, then I might buy some of each. However, I want to make this choice with some knowledge of the differences in playstyle.

 Blacksails wrote:

A competitive SM list will have a strong core of strike cruisers and a solid amount of escorts. You can include a Battle Barge for fluff reasons, but its generally regarded as underwhelming when you can stock up on strike cruisers.

I've heard that before. What's the problem with battle barges? Expensive yet underwhelming?

I've also heard that Space Marine ships - like Space Marines - excel at close-range shooting and boarding actions, and that their ships are designed to be tough enough to fly through a hail of fire and get into those close-range firefights. Is that it?

 Blacksails wrote:

Look up the 2010 FAQ for BFG and all the fleets. It makes the game better, and gives marines more options.

Will do. I think I downloaded it already...

Another question: if I want to use FW ships, is there a book I should buy/download, or are all those rules covered in the stuff I already downloaded off the GW site?

If you use the 2010 stuff, the Tau fleet is actually a combination. It contains rules for the FW ships, but you can purchase ships from both lists in one combined fleet list. You'll have to get the rules for the GW stuff from the GW downloadable list, but the point costs are all in the 2010. The Hero class cruiser (GW) is probably a more competitive choice than the Protector class (FW), but overall they're pretty balanced.

The FW units do better at lower point values, and are a good blend of all types of combat. The GW list is all about ordnance. Torpedoes and fighters/bombers. Min/max those weapons and you'll wreck face. The GW Tau list is perhaps the most competitive BFG list, as it has won several top BFG tournies regularly.

What you said about Battle barges sums them up pretty well. The 2010 FAQ gives them a little boost and they also have more options, which is nice.

And yes, generally marines like to get close, as they lack any real kind of close range punch.

If you found the google docs group/thing for the 2010 rules, you should have everything you need, plus the GW rules. There are numerous fan made updates and downloads from past white dwarf publications with special rules and different ship designs. The Book of Nemesis comes to mind, with a few new ships for each race.

The original GW Tau fleet represents their exploratory fleets in the state that they entered the wider galaxy and had to make do with modified trading and science vessels. The FW Tau fleet represents the race after learning from their mistakes and developing better war technologies.

But the two can mix to represent fleets using the GW ships as older ships that are yet to be decommissioned being still in use.

I only just recently went and looked at how the Tyranid fleet is built in the rules. I thought they only released a few models and left the players without the bulk of the fleet.

The fact that the 4 ship types provided are 'built' like the 4th edition codex Tyranids is great. The only missing ship isn't hard to convert either. Now I want to make a Tyranid fleet and talk my brother into doing a combined 40k/BFG campaign.

 Blacksails wrote:

If you found the google docs group/thing for the 2010 rules, you should have everything you need, plus the GW rules. There are numerous fan made updates and downloads from past white dwarf publications with special rules and different ship designs. The Book of Nemesis comes to mind, with a few new ships for each race.

Ah, that explains it.

No, I haven't found the 2010 google doc FAQ thing. I've just got the GW rules. Can you link for me?

Should all be right...here.

*Edit* Note that its still a supplement to the original rules. Use the updated numbers and rules from the general FAQ, and use the fleet books as supplements to the existing ones.

For the nid list i have 2k points in them but i fear that they tend to be rather boring to play, not much ov the elegant tactical maneuvering that you see with the imperial or chaos fleets.

Still game is cheaper than 40k and definitely a good tie in to campaigns.

Battlebarges are still solid battleships. They arn't bad, just a little on the expensive side.

If you combine the one-two punch that is a point blank torpedo salvo and Thunderhawk Annhilators with an Honor Guard or Terminator Teliport attack they can pretty much one shot any ship out there, except for a Tomb Ship. And even the Tomb Ship will be severly damaged.

Re: Battlebarges.

According to the 2010 rules update, a Space Marine Dominion Fleet can take Imperial (including Mechanicus) battleship, grand cruiser, battlecruiser, or heavy cruiser as a Venerable Battlebarge. Since my fleet is Blood Ravens - and they like to jack other people's stuff - this seems like it would be fluffy as well as potentially competitive. Is there an Imperial or Mechanicus capital ship that would make a better Battlebarge than a Battlebarge?

Edit: For example, specifically how about the Armageddon-Class Battlecruiser? They move 20cm (no slower than a battlebarge), have prow torpedoes already (so no loss of powerful prow weaponry for boarding torpedoes), and some truly epic weaponry. It would cost 280 points. The only loss would be that it's 4 points less tough than a battlebarge, which will hurt it for boarding actions.

Armageddons have nice armaments, but they're still just a Cruiser as far as damage is concerned. I use one in lower point games, but at higher point games I usually take a Retribution Battle Cruiser(I think thats the name)

it just seems a better use of the Venerable BB slot.

If you're going to use a Ven Battle Barge, go all out for an Imperial battleship. Take an Emperor class, or a Retribution, just for the sheer epicness.

 Blacksails wrote:
If you're going to use a Ven Battle Barge, go all out for an Imperial battleship. Take an Emperor class, or a Retribution, just for the sheer epicness.

Emperor class might be a better choice for space marines. It has launch bays for thunderhawks and a prow weapons battery to be replaced with tubes for boarding torpedoes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok... how's this for a list?

1.5k points

• Emperor-Class Battleship Venerable Battlebarge w/Torpedo Tubes (6), Master of the Fleet (2 Re-Rolls), Terminator Boarding Party
• 3 Strike Cruisers
• 6 Hunter-Class Destroyers
• 6 Gladius-Class Frigates

This game seems, surprisingly, not very listy. It looks like the point is less "what have I got?" and more "how can I use what I've got to maximum effectiveness?" I think I'm going to like this game...

List looks fine. Good balance of firepower.

All spaceship combat games play very differently from 40k. Its all about positioning and maximizing firepower at the right moment in space and time. The game can often be decided in single round of shooting, or it can become a drawn slugfest as range, each person trying to gain the upper hand. List building boils down to trying to synergise all your units as best as possible. For example; Chaos fleets will often try and maximize their lances and batteries at a particular range and orientation, like focusing on getting 60cm prow lances.

Once you go spaceship combat, you never go back.

 Blacksails wrote:
List looks fine. Good balance of firepower.

All spaceship combat games play very differently from 40k. Its all about positioning and maximizing firepower at the right moment in space and time. The game can often be decided in single round of shooting, or it can become a drawn slugfest as range, each person trying to gain the upper hand. List building boils down to trying to synergise all your units as best as possible. For example; Chaos fleets will often try and maximize their lances and batteries at a particular range and orientation, like focusing on getting 60cm prow lances.

Once you go spaceship combat, you never go back.

I play Infinity - I know all about range bands.

I'm going to have to go back and check out the range bands on that list...

I'm joining the conversation late, here, and I've sort of only skimmed the conversation to this point. I'll offer my couple of cents.

BFG is a good game. I don't think you will regret the decision to get into it. I have a Chaos fleet, and I've enjoyed pretty much every game I've played.

Having said that, however, the rules to the game are good but tedious. You constantly have to refer to the rulebook for damage charts, broadside shots, etc etc.

Ordnance also really, really slows the game down a lot. Unfortunately, however, ordnance is probably the most effective thing in the game.

You said you think the game doesn't sound "listy", but I would disagree with that. It's pretty "listy", I think. It's been a while since I played, so I could be wrong on details, but I think I could fit something like 24 ordnance bays into 1,000 points with my Chaos fleet. It was pretty overwhelming for an unprepared opponent.

Lances are also really powerful.

I've heard that some of the races (Necron, in particular) are poorly balanced and overpowered. I can't speak to this as I never fought with or against them. In my experience, games were usually pretty close affairs.

You are right about Space Marines. They are deadly up close, but have to get there first. It's an interesting fleet.

That's about all I can think of. Hope it helps. It's a fun game, and you should enjoy it. Just set aside 3 or even 4 hours for even a moderate-sized game, especially if one or both of you have a lot of ordnance bays.

The game is more 'tedious' (I don't like that word...maybe...detailed is better for me) because you have a smaller model count. The games take a similar amount of time simply due to a smaller number of models to take care of, but with greater detail in the goings on of them.

For damage charts and what-not, just have a printed off reference guide style sheet for easy crosschecking.

You will want to have some sort of data sheet for each ship so you can keep track of critical damage. It can be tough to remember which strike cruiser lost its port weapons batteries when they all look the same.

A very fun game from my experience. My gaming group back in Japan had a wide range, Eldar, Imperial Navy, Crons, and Chaos. When we'd get burned out on 40k we'd play a game of BFG or two for something a bit differant.

The game can be quite a bit challenging with the myriad of rules, and we found there was a lot of ambiguity in them as well, with us having to house rule a lot of stuff because it wasn't clear cut. That being said, we all really enjoyed the game.

I haven't gotten to play in the last 4 years, I can't seem to get any interest generated at my current location for it. While it can be pretty cheap to build a decent fleet, I'd highly suggest ensuring you have a couple folks to play against before you dump cash into it. I've had nearly 5,000 points of an Imperial Fleet when I moved here, mostly painted up by Blue Table, and they've done nothing but collect dust.

BTW, you can check my gallery out if you want to see what a painted fleet looks like.

Personally if i was going ot take a VBB, I'd take a Desolator, which is also, IIRC, an avalible choice.It's mobile, and goes a long way toward making up for your otherwise lacking lances.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Personally if i was going ot take a VBB, I'd take a Desolator, which is also, IIRC, an avalible choice.It's mobile, and goes a long way toward making up for your otherwise lacking lances.

I'm building a loyalist list here - would that make any sense?

Anyway, you want lances... how about this?

• Emperor-Class Venerable Battlebarge w/Torpedo Tubes, Master of the Fleet (3 re-rolls), Terminator Boarding Party
• 2 Strike Cruisers
• 2 Defiant-Class Light Cruisers w/Space Marine Captain, Honor Guard
• 6 Nova Class Frigates

Plenty of lances. I've got Strength 2 lances on each of my Defiants and a Strength 1 lance of each of my Novas. And I've still got launch bays on my Emperor and Strike Cruisers and boarding torpedos full of space marines on my Emperor. My only concern is this - is 11 too few ships for 1500 points?

I'm sorry if this is turning into a list-building thread, but these models are tiny, metal, and incredibly detailed, which would make conversion hard. I want my purchases to count!

* * *

Speaking of purchases, which kit wold I buy to make Defiant-Class Cruisers? The "Cruiser" kit? Or the "dauntless" kit, as Defiants are very nearly the same thing as Dauntlesses?

 ElectricPaladin wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Personally if i was going ot take a VBB, I'd take a Desolator, which is also, IIRC, an avalible choice.It's mobile, and goes a long way toward making up for your otherwise lacking lances.

I'm building a loyalist list here - would that make any sense?

Anyway, you want lances... how about this?

• Emperor-Class Venerable Battlebarge w/Torpedo Tubes, Master of the Fleet (3 re-rolls), Terminator Boarding Party
• 2 Strike Cruisers
• 2 Defiant-Class Light Cruisers w/Space Marine Captain, Honor Guard
• 6 Nova Class Frigates

Plenty of lances. I've got Strength 2 lances on each of my Defiants and a Strength 1 lance of each of my Novas. And I've still got launch bays on my Emperor and Strike Cruisers and boarding torpedos full of space marines on my Emperor. My only concern is this - is 11 too few ships for 1500 points?

I'm sorry if this is turning into a list-building thread, but these models are tiny, metal, and incredibly detailed, which would make conversion hard. I want my purchases to count!

* * *

Speaking of purchases, which kit wold I buy to make Defiant-Class Cruisers? The "Cruiser" kit? Or the "dauntless" kit, as Defiants are very nearly the same thing as Dauntlesses?

Can't get either one anymore, but mangozac has a resin kit he makes that would let you build a Defiant. FW has resin Novas that are much better then the metal ones. The Emp is a waste of points (since it's LB are reduced when made a VBB), an Oberon would be better. Desolators are imperial battleships from the Heresy era, it's just that the majority of surviving ones are in the hands of traitors as time is variable in the warp.

Honestly if you just want to test out the game or a given ship all you need is a flying base and tape a picture of the ship to it. It's ugly but it does the job without you having to dish out the cash first. In no way am I telling you not to buy the models, just use this as a test run.

Venerable Battlebarges can be ANY Chaos or Imperial cruiser, grand cruiser, or battleship. The chaos ships represent ships that have been in the chapter since the Heresy(Chaos ships are just what the Imperial fleet had back then)

Don't write any of the chaos ships out. They have some really nice ships, although they tend to lack in the armor department.


Heck, you could take the Planet Killer as a VBB