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With the new starter set coming out in October, I have decided to try out FoW!
But I don't really wan to heavily invest just yet until i buy the box set, so i was wondering what kinds of tanks (just the single model ones that don't cost much) i should buy?
I want them to be balanced so that i can fight them against each other so i can get a better understanding of the rules. As well as they wont upset the balance of the starter set.
I was thinking maybe a German Marder II for one of them, and then maybe Crusader II for the Brits.
What do you think? Will these be even tanks for learning the rules?

Thanks!

EDIT: Or would it be good to buy one tank and one platoon of infantry be a better option?

There used to be a starter set around which had 1x King Tiger vs 5x Sherman tanks and it seemed pretty balanced as well as a good way to quickly understand the rules for shooting, armour, saves etc.

Basically any LW German medium (not Panther) vs any LW Allied medium is going to be fairly balanced.

First let me say that taking the plunge into flames of war isn't as bad as say, starting a new warhammer army. The new starter set is going to make it even easier. As far as wanting to expand the armies, single models aren't really what you'd be looking for. More than likely adding more tanks to the mix isn't a great idea considering how many you already get in the box. I'll try to explain my reasoning using my somewhat limited knowledge of the game. First off, unlike warhammer, FoW does not reward spamming a particular type of unit, whether it be tanks, artillery or infantry. Every army needs a balance of units so that it can take on all comers. In addition, the armies have to be made up from the same time period. In this case, the armies are both late war lists, so for the most part they will only work with other late war stuff. This means that the crusader is probably not going to work with the British units in the starter set. With the amount of tanks for the british side, I'd recommend picking up some recon units to prevent your tanks being ambushed and to lift GtG from enemy infantry. In this case, the two options would be getting a platoon of Stuart VI tanks or a couple Daimler I and Dingo armored cars. This helps maximize the offensive attack capability of the British armor. Conversely the German force is infantry based, so unless you feel like shelling out a good chunk of change for halftracks to make a gepanzerte panzergrenadier kompanie, you'll be defending the majority of the time (at least thats what I find with my EW french infantry) To this end, I'd suggest adding some artillery, so maybe some nebelwerfers or 10.5cm howitzers. It's really up to you in that department.

I totally understand not wanting to invest a bunch of money in the game right away. That said though, I'd try to add to both armies till you've got a bit of everything (so add some recon and artillery for sure, maybe some support mg's and mortars too) as it makes it really easy to learn all the rules in the book.

Hope this was helpful

First off thanks of the response!
Secondly the thing is i'm kinda short on cash right now, so a tank group is out of the question, but i saw that you could buy a single tank or platoon for around 15$ so i was thinking that maybe if added a british machinegun platoon because the starter set only has one company of paratroopers to increase the infantry,
and a tank hunter for the germans to stave off the 8 tanks the british get to muster for the set,

what do you think?

The great thing about this game is that unlike GW, Battlefront do not control the WW2 market, you don't have to buy BF models and most players have a healthy mix from other companies in their armies.

Check out the Plastic Soldier Company, Zvevda, Peter Pig, QRF, Command Decision and Forged in Battle. BF are the most expensive models on the market for single packs and not always the best.

As for adding to the box set, as has been said both sides lack artillery, recon, anti air and personnel carriers so they are good things to have. The Germans already have tank hunters, that's what StuGs are plus you've got the Pak 40's.

From what I can see of the contents the Allied list is a British armour company with American Para support so you would need some American Para machine guns rather then British ones.

If You would be willing to shell out ~ 30 pounds (60-65 USD?) more, You could get two boxes of Plastic Soldier Company halftracks - 10 Sdkfz 251/1, which would allow You to field mechanised infantry. You actually need only 8 halftracks (two for HQ and 3 for each platoon with max-ed out squads) - 9 if You add Panzerschreck AT team to the HQ. If You take less stands in one of the grenadier platoons, You get 3 halftracks left, which allows to field a Gepanzerte mortar platoon with command halftrack and two 251/2s (mobile mortar platforms).

If you are wanting to go theArmor route and aregoing to piece your stuff together,here is a smalllist that i recommend.

Here is a list.

German
Jag panther
Zvezda Stuka Airplane

Herman goring panzer platoon,Zvevda tanks 2 panzer threes 2 pannzer 4

All zvezda items maybe purchased for under 5 dolars each. Great kits for the beginner on a tight budget.Nice kits some are better than Battlefront!

Brtish/American PAras
ZVEZDA WWII: British Fighter Hurricane Mk. I 1/144

Joe Vandeleur
Forward Air controller



Do not know if you are planning a Airborne company,Since the games company set is British Armor.(That is what i based this list on)Also you may want to get you a copy of Hells Highway

okay but i'm not really looking for stuff to add to the army, but more along the lines of some units i can fight against each other to help me grasp the rules before the box set comes out.
So what is a good tank to help me learn tank rules, and what is a good infantry platoon to help me learn infantry rules. Preferably the two can shoot and assault each other so me and my friends can try to understand the game.

also can some one explain to me in the most basic sense how shooting a tank works? I want to get my friend playing but he thinks the rules are too complicated an i don't know enough to explain them too him.

And one more thing: is the allied force in the box set a british one with american allies, or an american one, with british allies?

From the look of it, those are US Paratroopers with British Tanks. This means it's likely a Market Garden based list where you had US Paras backed up by British Tanks and Artillery.

I would suggest the ACHTUNG! starter set as a smaller starter set to try if you just want to learn the rules before buying into the bigger Open Fire! set. Achtung includes 3 American Shermans and 2 German StuGs. It also includes a mini rulebook, which is the complete rulebook.

Only infantry can assault tanks, and vice versa. Vehicles can't assault other vehicles.

Shooting is very simple. Your target's skill rating determines your To Hit number. If the target is Concealed, it gets a +1 bonus to that number (so they're harder to hit). If they're also Gone to Ground as well as Concealed, it gets an additional +1 bonus for its To Hit.

So, for example, if you have a Trained skill tank sitting in the open, all you would need is a 3+ on a D6 to hit it. If it's half-obscured by a house, then it is concealed and you would need a 4+ to hit it.

After that, you determine if the shot was effective, how to do so depends on whether the target was infantry, unarmored vehicle, or an armored vehicle.

It's very simple system that works quite well.

 Vertrucio wrote:
From the look of it, those are US Paratroopers with British Tanks. This means it's likely a Market Garden based list where you had US Paras backed up by British Tanks and Artillery.

Actually, I'd say the opposite - it's definitely a Market Garden themed set, but with enough tanks to do an HQ and 2 platoon, and only enough Paras to get a single, un-reinforced platoon, it's more likely a Guards list with US para support.

I'd agree, however, with picking up Achtung. It gets you the rulebook - which you really, really need - and enough tanks to muck about with.

Agreed, Brit armour, american support.

I didn't care what actual company list it was. The guy was asking for the general make-up of what was in the box. I told him so.

Such a grognardy moment.

Well, he did ask if it was Americans with British support, or Brits with American support.

And hooray - my first real grognard moment!

Well, if you are looking to learn the basics, I would recommend going onto Youtube, typing in "Flamesofwar" and watching the "Boot Camp" videos. They run you through the basics of FoW and then show how to apply them in a game.

Also, if you aren't looking to start an army until Open Fire, just get some dice and use tokens, counters, coins etc until you know what army you want to start unless you want to end up with some tanks from one army, infantry from another, one or two things from another.

Most importantly, have fun.

Okay, I think for now that i will proxy the models until the set is released; also can I use the american paratroopers as british ones by changing the paint job? or is there a difference in loadout and style?

US Para's are completely different to British ones.

The Uniforms, weapons and organisation are all different.

 Lord of battles wrote:
With the new starter set coming out in October, I have decided to try out FoW!
But I don't really wan to heavily invest just yet until i buy the box set, so i was wondering what kinds of tanks (just the single model ones that don't cost much) i should buy?
I want them to be balanced so that i can fight them against each other so i can get a better understanding of the rules. As well as they wont upset the balance of the starter set.
I was thinking maybe a German Marder II for one of them, and then maybe Crusader II for the Brits.
What do you think? Will these be even tanks for learning the rules?

Thanks!

EDIT: Or would it be good to buy one tank and one platoon of infantry be a better option?

How about the PSC box set for the 5 PanzerIVs for about $30. You can pretend a couple of them are Shermans until you get the big box set, and they will slot right in with the Grens.

 Lord of battles wrote:
First off thanks of the response!
Secondly the thing is i'm kinda short on cash right now, so a tank group is out of the question, but i saw that you could buy a single tank or platoon for around 15$ so i was thinking that maybe if added a british machinegun platoon because the starter set only has one company of paratroopers to increase the infantry,
and a tank hunter for the germans to stave off the 8 tanks the british get to muster for the set,

what do you think?

It's American Infantry supporting a Brit Armor company, so don't get Brit MGs. I don't have the Brit lists from MG so I can't tell you what is a good choice to help fill out the company.

 Vertrucio wrote:
From the look of it, those are US Paratroopers with British Tanks. This means it's likely a Market Garden based list where you had US Paras backed up by British Tanks and Artillery.

I would suggest the ACHTUNG! starter set as a smaller starter set to try if you just want to learn the rules before buying into the bigger Open Fire! set. Achtung includes 3 American Shermans and 2 German StuGs. It also includes a mini rulebook, which is the complete rulebook.

The Achtung Shermans are Brit M4A4s, not 'American' Shermans. If you shaved off the joints on the transmission housing you can use them as US M4A3 (Early) tanks.

CainTheHunter wrote:
If You would be willing to shell out ~ 30 pounds (60-65 USD?) more, You could get two boxes of Plastic Soldier Company halftracks - 10 Sdkfz 251/1, which would allow You to field mechanised infantry. You actually need only 8 halftracks (two for HQ and 3 for each platoon with max-ed out squads) - 9 if You add Panzerschreck AT team to the HQ. If You take less stands in one of the grenadier platoons, You get 3 halftracks left, which allows to field a Gepanzerte mortar platoon with command halftrack and two 251/2s (mobile mortar platforms).

AFAIK, it's usually 4 halftracks per PzGren Plt and 2 for the HQ making it 10 total.


Back to the OP- Go here and play around with the menus to see what forces can be taken in support of the Brits from Open Fire

http://fowlists.blogspot.com/2012/03/hells-highway-british-guards-armoured_15.html

This is what you get for the Brits in the box:
Compulsory Guards Armoured Squadron HQ - 1x CIC Sherman, 1x 2iC Sherman (185 pts)

Compulsory Guards Armoured Platoon - 1x Command Sherman, 1x Sherman, 1x Sherman Firefly (285 pts)

Compulsory Guards Armoured Platoon - 1x Command Sherman, 1x Sherman, 1x Sherman Firefly (285 pts)

US Parachute Rifle Platoon - 1x Command Rifle/MG, 6x Rifle/MG, 1x M2 60mm Mortar, 1x Bazooka (255 pts)

1010 Points, 3 Platoons

If you bought 2 Sherman Fireflys now for the Brits, you'd be able to add them to the combat platoons so they have 2 Shermans and 2 Fireflys each:

Compulsory Guards Armoured Squadron HQ - 1x CIC Sherman, 1x 2iC Sherman (185 pts)

Compulsory Guards Armoured Platoon - 1x Command Sherman, 1x Sherman, 2x Sherman Firefly (390 pts)

Compulsory Guards Armoured Platoon - 1x Command Sherman, 1x Sherman, 2x Sherman Firefly (390 pts)

US Parachute Rifle Platoon - 1x Command Rifle/MG, 6x Rifle/MG, 1x M2 60mm Mortar, 1x Bazooka (255 pts)

1220 Points, 3 Platoons



Ok, looking at the German forces, and using the Grens list from Grey Wolf, by adding a platoon of PzIVHs you are also at 1220pts
http://fowlists.blogspot.com/2012/03/grey-wolf-german-grenadier.html

Compulsory Grenadier Company HQ - 1x CinC SMG, 1x 2iC SMG (45 pts)
- Panzerschreck - 1x Panzerschreck (25 pts)

Compulsory Grenadier Platoon - 1x Command Rifle/MG, 6x Rifle/MG (155 pts)

Compulsory Grenadier Platoon - 1x Command Rifle/MG, 6x Rifle/MG (155 pts)

Grenadier Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 2x 7.5cm PaK40 (105 pts)

Panzer Platoon - 1x Command Panzer IVH, 4x Panzer IVH (450 pts)

StuG Platoon - 1x Command StuG G, 2x StuG G (285 pts)

1220 Points, 5 Platoons

Cool! It looks like the allies force is underpowered point wise, compared to the germans, but they do have more tanks i guess..

On the idea of tokens; I've made some infantry stands using the base sizes from the online store, but what would be the approximate sizes of the sherman v, firefly, and the StuG? What is the closest type of base that they would fit on?

The allies aren't underpowered pointswise, in fact they actually have more points striaght out of the box. They are under the german platoon size, but that is one aspect of the game that you eventually have to come to grips with anyway.

If you wanted to get a box of PSC sherman Vs (and VCs ) and a Box of Stug Gs.
This would give you some tanks to play with.
(2 tanks in Hq and a platoon of 3 each side)
Look at the basic rules on youtube

And allow you to field several allied armoured lists (British 11th armoured, Guards Armoured, Polish 1st Armoured etc.)
AND several German Grenadier lists with Stug G/ Stug 42h support.

Just add some armoured cars/carriers , AA ,and arty/air support for full armies!

British can take more than one Firefly per platoon now? Will have to double-check that. Every list I've seen limits them to one per platoon.

MarsNZ wrote:
British can take more than one Firefly per platoon now? Will have to double-check that. Every list I've seen limits them to one per platoon.

There's the Guards Armoured Squadron in Hell's Highway, and the Armoured Squadron from the Taurus Pursuant PDF. It's definitely a Market-Garden thing in FoW.

Ah right my bad, haven't gotten very acquainted with the Market Garden lists. Scary tank the ol' Firefly

So does anyone know what bases the tanks would fit on?

Tanks aren't required to have bases. For tanks its more of a personal preference. That said IMHO they fit well on a large size base, but it also depends on what tank you want to base...

Well I'm just looking for the size so i can proxy them until i buy the box set. So do you mean they fit well on a large base with space to spare or should i use medium sized ones?

 Lord of battles wrote:
Well I'm just looking for the size so i can proxy them until i buy the box set. So do you mean they fit well on a large base with space to spare or should i use medium sized ones?

It depends on the tank. For example a Tiger or Panther won't fit at all on a small base. If you use a large base you should have room to spare. Just keep in mind that bases for tanks don't impact gameplay.

I'm interested in the new starter set as well.
Would it be possible for me to convert all the British tanks to be American?

I am fielding my tanks and APCs on bases for safer transportation (I glued magnetic sheets under them). Tigers and Panzers are at best on large (artillery bases), whereas Sdkfz's are fine on medium sized bases. In addition, if You buy tanks/vehicles from Forged in Battle, keep in mind that they come with pre-casted resin base, which You cannot separate without seriously damaging the miniature.
Btw, there are some extremely cheep Marders III on the e-bay, if You are interested.

 Far Seer wrote:
I'm interested in the new starter set as well.
Would it be possible for me to convert all the British tanks to be American?

Sort of.

If you shave off the molded 'joints' on the transmission housing so that it looks like the one piece housing, then the tanks would closely resemble the M4A3(Early). The Fireflies have a muzzle-brake, but it you clipped off the brake and shaved the front housing then it would look like M4A3(76) tanks. There's nothing you can do about the radio housing, but that would be a minor point.

M4A4


M4A3(Early)


You could also file the outer corners where the round housing for the front axles are, since they are sharp on the A4 and rounded on the A3. There are minor differences in the rear hull and tracks, but once you take off the joints in the transmission housing, everything else is not very visible.