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Apple fox, I really don't understand how you can get that impression.

Forgeworld is a division of Games Workshop.
Forgeworld model releases are advertised on GW's website in What's New Today.
Forgeworld books are available for purchase in GW stores.
Those books contain an explicit statement that Forgeworld units with the "40K Approved" stamp beside their entry(ie, all of them save Experimental rules and complete unique army lists like Eldar Corsairs or DKoK) are legal for use in standard games of 40K.

The only way they could integrate Forgeworld more fully into the game would be to get rid of the brand entirely and put the units into the Codices and the models on the store shelves, which completely eliminates the point of having a specialist division dedicated to providing add-ons for the existing forces.

Shall I tell you what wearies me? When people refuse to play against the army I have spent hundreds of hours working on because I had the sheer audacity to include an officially sanctioned unit produced by the game's manufacturer.

Anyone can refuse to play anything for any reason, that is our prerogative as free thinking individuals, but not all reasons are equal, and I have no issues with politely challenging bad reasons.

Come on guys lets relax. We don't need another FW flame thread.

 TheCaptain wrote:
FW is friendliness is up to you explaining it to them. I've never had a problem with it, because I've shown them rules, GW endorsement, a written army-list, and the like.

Pretty much this. I've heard of those militant anti-FW players, but I've never encountered one in nearly two decades of gaming, and I think that's due in no small measure to the level of 'professionalism' I approach the game with. Having clearly written/typed army lists, the relevant books for all the models I want to use, the relevant FAQ's or Errata documents printed and available for reference, etc.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Apple fox, I really don't understand how you can get that impression.

Forgeworld is a division of Games Workshop.
Forgeworld model releases are advertised on GW's website in What's New Today.
Forgeworld books are available for purchase in GW stores.
Those books contain an explicit statement that Forgeworld units with the "40K Approved" stamp beside their entry(ie, all of them save Experimental rules and complete unique army lists like Eldar Corsairs or DKoK) are legal for use in standard games of 40K.

The only way they could integrate Forgeworld more fully into the game would be to get rid of the brand entirely and put the units into the Codices and the models on the store shelves, which completely eliminates the point of having a specialist division dedicated to providing add-ons for the existing forces.

Shall I tell you what wearies me? When people refuse to play against the army I have spent hundreds of hours working on because I had the sheer audacity to include an officially sanctioned unit produced by the game's manufacturer.

Anyone can refuse to play anything for any reason, that is our prerogative as free thinking individuals, but not all reasons are equal, and I have no issues with politely challenging bad reasons.

I have never once seen a forgeworld model on GW what's new today, never seen them in GW stores befor. Maybe thay don't put them sale here? or I just look at the wrong times
Also I don't realy see much point to having it as separate if thay are making rules, and realy I see them as not part of the main game at this time, off corse that can change but thay realy do come off as just a addon.
GW realy should include more of them in the codex, right now looking on the website I still not even sure which books I should get to learn :( it also doesn't help that thay are nearly 80$ each :0 or put the books up on there website for a reasonable amount here.

I think realy it's not even forgeworld itself, just how GW handles it that bugs me:( just can't change that. :(

My group has always let me run repressors instead of rhinos. But honestly the increase in forgeworlds acceptance isn't surprising. Humans only like what gives THEM an edge.

So before 6th edition forgeworld had a lot of garbage they produced that these players don't want to field. And they don't want to have to learn new rules for other armies either. Now however with the inclusion of fliers forgeworld has given players viable air options GW hasn't yet given their books.

Before 6th edition these players gained nothing from allowing forgeworld so they said they wouldn't allow it. Despite it not hurting them either.

Now during 6th edition they have something to gain and they are buddy buddy with forgeworld because it gets them that unit their new lists needs.

 IcedAnimals wrote:
My group has always let me run repressors instead of rhinos. But honestly the increase in forgeworlds acceptance isn't surprising. Humans only like what gives THEM an edge.

So before 6th edition forgeworld had a lot of garbage they produced that these players don't want to field. And they don't want to have to learn new rules for other armies either. Now however with the inclusion of fliers forgeworld has given players viable air options GW hasn't yet given their books.

Before 6th edition these players gained nothing from allowing forgeworld so they said they wouldn't allow it. Despite it not hurting them either.

Now during 6th edition they have something to gain and they are buddy buddy with forgeworld because it gets them that unit their new lists needs.

Thus is the way of the world.

The way GW handles them is realy at fault in this, but the players are what makes me weary when reading threads like this.

Because these threads often enter into "Dangerous War Zone" Territory, as Anti-Forgeworld and Pro-Forgeworld bicker and battle in ways. It's not exactly one sided like Matt Ward hate, so it's often quite polarizing.

I like FW stuff though, so long as they don't try to cheat me by using an "APOC ONLY" model. Yeah suuure your baneblade is standard game legit. Now show me it's page from the book.


I've fought quite a few FW stuff, from the Achilles to IA book army lists (Fighting a Deff Dread mob was fun! ), I don't quite care what you run so long as it doesn't go over it's points, and it's set for the right game system.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Come on guys lets relax. We don't need another FW flame thread.

No flaming, just firm yet polite disagreement

Apple fox wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Apple fox, I really don't understand how you can get that impression.

Forgeworld is a division of Games Workshop.
Forgeworld model releases are advertised on GW's website in What's New Today.
Forgeworld books are available for purchase in GW stores.
Those books contain an explicit statement that Forgeworld units with the "40K Approved" stamp beside their entry(ie, all of them save Experimental rules and complete unique army lists like Eldar Corsairs or DKoK) are legal for use in standard games of 40K.

The only way they could integrate Forgeworld more fully into the game would be to get rid of the brand entirely and put the units into the Codices and the models on the store shelves, which completely eliminates the point of having a specialist division dedicated to providing add-ons for the existing forces.

Shall I tell you what wearies me? When people refuse to play against the army I have spent hundreds of hours working on because I had the sheer audacity to include an officially sanctioned unit produced by the game's manufacturer.

Anyone can refuse to play anything for any reason, that is our prerogative as free thinking individuals, but not all reasons are equal, and I have no issues with politely challenging bad reasons.

I have never once seen a forgeworld model on GW what's new today, never seen them in GW stores befor. Maybe thay don't put them sale here? or I just look at the wrong times
Also I don't realy see much point to having it as separate if thay are making rules, and realy I see them as not part of the main game at this time, off corse that can change but thay realy do come off as just a addon.
GW realy should include more of them in the codex, right now looking on the website I still not even sure which books I should get to learn :( it also doesn't help that thay are nearly 80$ each :0 or put the books up on there website for a reasonable amount here.

I think realy it's not even forgeworld itself, just how GW handles it that bugs me:( just can't change that. :(

Here you are, Forgeworld related posts on What's New Today, including model releases, teasers, book releases, events, and painting/modelling showcases.

I don't have any photos of my local GW, so you'll just have to take my word for it that there's a nice long shelf right above the Black Library section with the various Forgeworld rulebooks up for sale.

I never get the "addon" argument myself. Chapter Approved was an "addon", the Dakkajet and Storm Talon are "addons", the old 3rd Edition minidexes were "addons", but nobody ever tried to argue that my Blood Angels weren't official because they were just a supplement for Codex: Space Marines, or refuse to play against me because I had a Deathwatch Kill Team, but a Contemptor Dreadnought is totally out of the question?

I understand what you mean when you say it bugs you, but I don't think it bugs you because of anything GW are doing, I think it bugs you because you come at the problem from the perspective that Forgeworld and Games Workshop are two separate, distinct entities, when in actuality they are not. Forgeworld IS Games Workshop, just as White Dwarf is Games Workshop. It sucks that the FW books are so expensive, and thus so hard to research properly(at least legally), but that's a relative issue; I can't afford to buy any Codex that isn't for an army I actually play, so I just have to learn other forces via osmosis by playing against them and reading about them online, but that's no reason for me to object to playing against new Codices.

I don't want to come across as picking on you in particular Apple fox, I'm just hoping I can argue you round to a different point of view.

Personally I am not a fan of FW models being used if it isn't part of your basic codex unless you grant the same advantages to your enemy and announce it well before lists are created. I have played with too many eldar Tailored lists which use the Nightspinner i think it's called and until this current edition i had gnashed my teeth everytime because of how freaking broke every FW model has been for it's points imo anyway. It's never taken to cover a niche it's basically taken to layer on the cheese in some form that isn't accomplished in standard lists and it really just saddens me to see them on the board.

That being said, if my enemy shows up with them i do ask if they would be willing to not use those variants against me as I prefer to stick to the generic codex for my battles if not informed that those things would be used ahead of time (basically it's an awareness of my enemy in a way.) I DO SUPPORT FW models being used to identify models that were never created offically for these Codexes. for Example I use the FW biker boss model and i love him and he's fully painted. In all actuality I would be within the rights to simply use a 1 inch by 3 inch base but i feel the Warboss i use just makes more sense to be bigger and meaner!"

So if it is just to make your models looks cool or to cover bases for models not sold or looks stupid sure use em, but the actual rules of the game i do not like FW setting foot on the battlefield without knowing my enemy is a nice guy before hand because anyone I've ever been nice enough to allow to take FW units into battle as turned into TFG....

I have gone up against an Elysian IA list. So yes.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Come on guys lets relax. We don't need another FW flame thread.

No flaming, just firm yet polite disagreement

Apple fox wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Apple fox, I really don't understand how you can get that impression.

Forgeworld is a division of Games Workshop.
Forgeworld model releases are advertised on GW's website in What's New Today.
Forgeworld books are available for purchase in GW stores.
Those books contain an explicit statement that Forgeworld units with the "40K Approved" stamp beside their entry(ie, all of them save Experimental rules and complete unique army lists like Eldar Corsairs or DKoK) are legal for use in standard games of 40K.

The only way they could integrate Forgeworld more fully into the game would be to get rid of the brand entirely and put the units into the Codices and the models on the store shelves, which completely eliminates the point of having a specialist division dedicated to providing add-ons for the existing forces.

Shall I tell you what wearies me? When people refuse to play against the army I have spent hundreds of hours working on because I had the sheer audacity to include an officially sanctioned unit produced by the game's manufacturer.

Anyone can refuse to play anything for any reason, that is our prerogative as free thinking individuals, but not all reasons are equal, and I have no issues with politely challenging bad reasons.

I have never once seen a forgeworld model on GW what's new today, never seen them in GW stores befor. Maybe thay don't put them sale here? or I just look at the wrong times
Also I don't realy see much point to having it as separate if thay are making rules, and realy I see them as not part of the main game at this time, off corse that can change but thay realy do come off as just a addon.
GW realy should include more of them in the codex, right now looking on the website I still not even sure which books I should get to learn :( it also doesn't help that thay are nearly 80$ each :0 or put the books up on there website for a reasonable amount here.

I think realy it's not even forgeworld itself, just how GW handles it that bugs me:( just can't change that. :(

Here you are, Forgeworld related posts on What's New Today, including model releases, teasers, book releases, events, and painting/modelling showcases.

I don't have any photos of my local GW, so you'll just have to take my word for it that there's a nice long shelf right above the Black Library section with the various Forgeworld rulebooks up for sale.

I never get the "addon" argument myself. Chapter Approved was an "addon", the Dakkajet and Storm Talon are "addons", the old 3rd Edition minidexes were "addons", but nobody ever tried to argue that my Blood Angels weren't official because they were just a supplement for Codex: Space Marines, or refuse to play against me because I had a Deathwatch Kill Team, but a Contemptor Dreadnought is totally out of the question?

I understand what you mean when you say it bugs you, but I don't think it bugs you because of anything GW are doing, I think it bugs you because you come at the problem from the perspective that Forgeworld and Games Workshop are two separate, distinct entities, when in actuality they are not. Forgeworld IS Games Workshop, just as White Dwarf is Games Workshop. It sucks that the FW books are so expensive, and thus so hard to research properly(at least legally), but that's a relative issue; I can't afford to buy any Codex that isn't for an army I actually play, so I just have to learn other forces via osmosis by playing against them and reading about them online, but that's no reason for me to object to playing against new Codices.

I don't want to come across as picking on you in particular Apple fox, I'm just hoping I can argue you round to a different point of view.

well I convinced partially, I still dislike how GW handles its model range FW included, but I think I not realy have anything agents players using there stuff if it's fair and ballenced :p I hope it's fair and ballenced....
Grumpy day was probably not the best day to come into here :p

I have played with too many eldar Tailored lists which use the Nightspinner i think it's called

That's actually a legal model that was added not by forgeworld, but by White Dwarf into the eldar codex.

So even if your against forgeworld stuff, your stuck against that one.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
Personally I am not a fan of FW models being used if it isn't part of your basic codex unless you grant the same advantages to your enemy and announce it well before lists are created. I have played with too many eldar Tailored lists which use the Nightspinner i think it's called and until this current edition i had gnashed my teeth everytime because of how freaking broke every FW model has been for it's points imo anyway. It's never taken to cover a niche it's basically taken to layer on the cheese in some form that isn't accomplished in standard lists and it really just saddens me to see them on the board.

Like ZebioLizard mentionned, the model is GW and legit. What happened was the following:

- GW put the rules out in a White Dwarf but there was no model on day 1.
- FW made an upgrade kit and sold th complete kit for the model.
- When the Fire Prism was re-designed it became a dual-kit Fire Prism/Night Spinner
- The rules are in a PDF on GW's website in the Fire Prism/Night Spinner page.

Personally I am a big fan of FW. Everything that can throw a spanner in the cookie-cutter meta is good.

Ok everyone. I was did not start this thread to start the same FW legality debate again.

I will ask a mod to close it if that what it devolves into.
I just was asking if everyone is seeing more FW in 6th ed games.

With GW pulling GT support and the tourney meta changing with the increase of chance and randomness, I have heard of several locals and possibly some GT starting to accept FW models, rules, and armies.

And since so many armies are suffering from stale codexes, FW can fill the gaps until GW product releases catch up.

Hey at least FW are not as broken as the Skyshield Landing Pad.

I'm cool with codexes, but some of the add-ons are insane. That drop-pod that lets dreadnaught assault out of deepstrike, for one.

In it's original incarnation in 5th I'd have agreed that it was one of the half a dozen or fewer FW things that was truly silly that boggled my mind.

However, in 6th edition between the huge nerfs to CC, reserves, and Hull Points, plus the fact that the pod takes up an FA slot now and it forces a dangerous terrain test, it's probably the only way you're going to consistently get any reasonable use out of a dreadnought that isn't a long range AT platform and isn't too outrageous anymore (especially compared to playing a Necron army in 6E ), the only issue I personally have with it being Drop Pod assault allowing it to come in turn 1.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I have played with too many eldar Tailored lists which use the Nightspinner i think it's called

That's actually a legal model that was added not by forgeworld, but by White Dwarf into the eldar codex.

So even if your against forgeworld stuff, your stuck against that one.

Drats didn't know that one our store owner said it was IA years ago and it just stuck either way my eldar buddies never had the legal info on it so it frustrated me. But i've ran against other options of FW for sure, fliers i don't think I'd care about for example like Tau taking a flyer i just would want to know ahead of time and allow it only with a friend myself personally. If you were a random pick up match i'd probably ask you to change up because the Tau might not have good AA but they got great everything else now.

I love all of the forgeworld stuff and i think it adds a lot of epicness to the game. I get tired of seeing the exact same lists at league night that i have read about on the internet. I would much rather play a forgeworld campaign or something awesome like that with interesting models. So what if they are more powerful at least they aren't just the latest powerlist out there. It also makes me sad when i see one of the beautiful forgeworld models sloppily assembled and spattered with paint just so they can be used in a tourney or something. But then i am happy when i offer to paint said model for money and they take me up on it.

My army's going to be FW only, if someone's hatin', well we're not having a game.