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IronWarLeg wrote:Oh and a lot of different departments down here use different side arms, but the majority that I have seen use Glock 9mm, while some still use the Baretta M9 (like the military), and even others still have revolvers (these are mostly your small town forces, pretty much all inner city police have switched over to a semi auto.)

I could see that. If my life depended on it, I'd definitely want to launch something better than 9mm parabellum.

 azazel the cat wrote:

IronWarLeg wrote:Oh and a lot of different departments down here use different side arms, but the majority that I have seen use Glock 9mm, while some still use the Baretta M9 (like the military), and even others still have revolvers (these are mostly your small town forces, pretty much all inner city police have switched over to a semi auto.)

I could see that. If my life depended on it, I'd definitely want to launch something better than 9mm parabellum.

Except modern 9mm loads have come quite a way and are certainly adequate for personal defense. While .40 S&W is a good balance between strong ballistics(not *that* much more than 9mm, AFAIK) and size/capacity, there's an argument to be made that you should carry whatever you're capable of shooting accurately quickly, and for many 9mm is just fine.

I've only used my 9mm Beratta once in combat. Just once. It was later determined it was an authorised kill. The target got within 2 feet of me making my M4 impractical to use. The target was quite EVIL looking and determined to snuff out my life hence I put three rounds into the threat....

Thats about the extent of a 9mm's stopping capabilities too

 Vaerros wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

IronWarLeg wrote:Oh and a lot of different departments down here use different side arms, but the majority that I have seen use Glock 9mm, while some still use the Baretta M9 (like the military), and even others still have revolvers (these are mostly your small town forces, pretty much all inner city police have switched over to a semi auto.)

I could see that. If my life depended on it, I'd definitely want to launch something better than 9mm parabellum.

Except modern 9mm loads have come quite a way and are certainly adequate for personal defense. While .40 S&W is a good balance between strong ballistics(not *that* much more than 9mm, AFAIK) and size/capacity, there's an argument to be made that you should carry whatever you're capable of shooting accurately quickly, and for many 9mm is just fine.

9mm ballistic info: http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php

around 250-500 ft lbs at muzzle depending on if +P and type.


.40 S/W ballistic info: http://www.ballistics101.com/40_caliber_sw.php

Around 350-600 ft lb at muzzle, again depending on type.


My personal carry, .357 mag: http://www.ballistics101.com/357_magnum.php

Around 450-750 leaving muzzle. I personally use +P in my carry so its higher than that. At home I have another loaded with Glaser rounds, its designed not to penetrate the aluminum skin on aircraft, in other words it wont go through sheetrock and end up in a neighbors house if it came down to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyRUY2Fw80U

Edit: for my join date I lurk alot lol this was my 100th post

IronWarLeg wrote:



9mm ballistic info: http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php

around 250-500 ft lbs at muzzle depending on if +P and type.


.40 S/W ballistic info: http://www.ballistics101.com/40_caliber_sw.php

Around 350-600 ft lb at muzzle, again depending on type.


My personal carry, .357 mag: http://www.ballistics101.com/357_magnum.php

Around 450-750 leaving muzzle. I personally use +P in my carry so its higher than that. At home I have another loaded with Glaser rounds, its designed not to penetrate the aluminum skin on aircraft, in other words it wont go through sheetrock and end up in a neighbors house if it came down to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyRUY2Fw80U

Edit: for my join date I lurk alot lol this was my 100th post

That's fine, but is muzzle energy really a solid enough metric to go by? Personally and for now, I'd choose something as I said I can shoot accurately quickly, and practice with often -- for me that's 9mm parabellum, but I certainly won't rule out looking at other cartridges later. And of course to each their own.

Look up the Winchester Ranger ammo, excellent hollow point ammunition.

Doc GKR is an excellent resource on terminal ballistics.

http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91

this thread specifically is a good number:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?s=b4e8dc0af112ad3c7a81b0634ccc1dcf&t=19887

 Vaerros wrote:

IronWarLeg wrote:



9mm ballistic info: http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php

around 250-500 ft lbs at muzzle depending on if +P and type.


.40 S/W ballistic info: http://www.ballistics101.com/40_caliber_sw.php

Around 350-600 ft lb at muzzle, again depending on type.


My personal carry, .357 mag: http://www.ballistics101.com/357_magnum.php

Around 450-750 leaving muzzle. I personally use +P in my carry so its higher than that. At home I have another loaded with Glaser rounds, its designed not to penetrate the aluminum skin on aircraft, in other words it wont go through sheetrock and end up in a neighbors house if it came down to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyRUY2Fw80U

Edit: for my join date I lurk alot lol this was my 100th post

That's fine, but is muzzle energy really a solid enough metric to go by? Personally and for now, I'd choose something as I said I can shoot accurately quickly, and practice with often -- for me that's 9mm parabellum, but I certainly won't rule out looking at other cartridges later. And of course to each their own.

I hope I didnt come across as saying that the 9mm is a bad round or anything, if I did I apologise, I was putting up the statistics for your earlier post that show that the .40 s/w is actually pretty darn close to the 9mm

Muzzle energy is ok to go with in the case of a pistol, most shots take place in close range, so the amount of energy you lose before impact is fairly small.

My wife is actually considering a 9mm to replace her .38 snubby, Says its too heavy in her purse.

I'm thinking about adding a Walther in .380 to my arsenal, if it's good enough for James Bond it's good enough for me, and I usually play on team .45 ACP or .40 S&W

A .380 started World War 1, so that's a good metric to go by.

Actually a grenade kicked it off

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I'm thinking about adding a Walther in .380 to my arsenal, if it's good enough for James Bond it's good enough for me, and I usually play on team .45 ACP or .40 S&W

They make them in small enough frames they make very comfortable concealed weapons, I looked at a couple .380's and shot them, for my big hands they were actually pretty comfortable and the smaller kick helps with target re-aquisition greatly.

 Jihadin wrote:
Actually a grenade kicked it off

And a sandwich don't forget the sandwich

Archduke Franz Ferdinand of the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't eating a sandwich in the carriage he got fragged in.

Jihadin wrote:I've only used my 9mm Beratta once in combat. Just once. It was later determined it was an authorised kill. The target got within 2 feet of me making my M4 impractical to use. The target was quite EVIL looking and determined to snuff out my life hence I put three rounds into the threat....

Spoiler:

Camelspider 6" long

I'd have emptied the magazine into it, then stood there repeatedly dropping the hammer on an empty chamber for a good ten minutes afterwards.



I'm a fan of the M1911, personally. .45 ACP should handle most non-bear problems, it's kick is nonexistent, and i just don't fathom a practical need for more than 7+1. And I like single-action, but that's just a preference.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jihadin wrote:Archduke Franz Ferdinand of the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't eating a sandwich in the carriage he got fragged in.

Princeps was eating the sandwich when the Ferdinand's coach stopped right in front of the cafe he was in.

Three shots into it moving back away from it. Little SoB scared the crap out of me and it freaking MOVED ( high rate of speed). Other then that my 9mm just collected sand dust.

 whembly wrote:
See!?!?!

We need MOAR GUNZ!

I'm trying to find a study by the FBI that shows the Conceal Permits actually drove down gun-related crimes... but, gah... not having luck.

That's because studies show that there is no correlation.

 Jihadin wrote:
If you have an assualt rifle you look cooler

Open carry of a rifle is legal in a lot of states. I would be all over it, if I didn't have a reputation to tarnish among neighbors.

KalashnikovMarine wrote:I'm thinking about adding a Walther in .380 to my arsenal, if it's good enough for James Bond it's good enough for me, and I usually play on team .45 ACP or .40 S&W

Not the best way to pick a gun. Bond's Favorite (capital intentional) gun was a .25 Berreta.

AustonT wrote:

KalashnikovMarine wrote:I'm thinking about adding a Walther in .380 to my arsenal, if it's good enough for James Bond it's good enough for me, and I usually play on team .45 ACP or .40 S&W

Not the best way to pick a gun. Bond's Favorite (capital intentional) gun was a .25 Berreta.

Yup. Nice and light -in a lady's handbag. It jammed on his last job, and he spent six months in hospital in consequence.

When you carry a 00 number, you have a license to kill, not get killed

Can't go wrong with a .357 Magnum... You can always fire .38 special if you're not up to challenge.

Wheel gun master race!

9mm rounds bounce off t-shirts and a .45 will blow any target up to and including hippopotami back twenty paces.

Caliber wars happen all the time on firearms forums, and for every documented case of a one-shot stop with any given caliber, there's another documented case of it taking four. Or six. Or eight. Shot placement is what counts, not the size of the bullet, especially with modern defensive loads.

Wheelguns are always fun, I carried a chief's special with .38+Ps for around two years before I got my first semi-auto. Still do carry it now and then, there's just something classy about a revolved.

Nowadays it's usually this beast:



Especially now that my college campus has authorized concealed carry for state permit holders.

Regardless of what gun you're carrying, I would still suggest the best thing you can do is keep your head down and sprint away in the opposite direction.
Unless of course you're defending your home or workplace, which is a different matter.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 whembly wrote:
See!?!?!

We need MOAR GUNZ!

I'm trying to find a study by the FBI that shows the Conceal Permits actually drove down gun-related crimes... but, gah... not having luck.

That's because studies show that there is no correlation.

I've found some college studies... but, doesn't look right.

My brother got me thinking of this... he lives in Arizona, and it's one of the two "open carry" states (Colorado is the other one?).

And I asked him how's the gun related crimes? He said:
"I't's horrible here... but, they seem to be related to gang-cartel crimes than anything else."

So, I got thinking if there were a correlation with providing concealed weapons to the amount of gun related crimes.

Maybe it just shows that those who want to commit crimes, will do so anyway... *shrugs* I need to get to the range,..

 whembly wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 whembly wrote:
See!?!?!

We need MOAR GUNZ!

I'm trying to find a study by the FBI that shows the Conceal Permits actually drove down gun-related crimes... but, gah... not having luck.

That's because studies show that there is no correlation.

I've found some college studies... but, doesn't look right.

My brother got me thinking of this... he lives in Arizona, and it's one of the two "open carry" states (Colorado is the other one?).

And I asked him how's the gun related crimes? He said:
"I't's horrible here... but, they seem to be related to gang-cartel crimes than anything else."

So, I got thinking if there were a correlation with providing concealed weapons to the amount of gun related crimes.

Maybe it just shows that those who want to commit crimes, will do so anyway... *shrugs* I need to get to the range,..

There are a lot more than just two open carry states. You can open carry in Ohio as well.

Also, to legally carry a concealed weapon in most states you have to have a license, and gangbangers and cartel members aren't going to get (or be allowed to get) licenses.

 Hordini wrote:

Spoiler:

 whembly wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 whembly wrote:
See!?!?!

We need MOAR GUNZ!

I'm trying to find a study by the FBI that shows the Conceal Permits actually drove down gun-related crimes... but, gah... not having luck.

That's because studies show that there is no correlation.

I've found some college studies... but, doesn't look right.

My brother got me thinking of this... he lives in Arizona, and it's one of the two "open carry" states (Colorado is the other one?).

And I asked him how's the gun related crimes? He said:
"I't's horrible here... but, they seem to be related to gang-cartel crimes than anything else."

So, I got thinking if there were a correlation with providing concealed weapons to the amount of gun related crimes.

Maybe it just shows that those who want to commit crimes, will do so anyway... *shrugs* I need to get to the range,..

There are a lot more than just two open carry states. You can open carry in Ohio as well.

Also, to legally carry a concealed weapon in most states you have to have a license, and gangbangers and cartel members aren't going to get (or be allowed to get) licenses.

Huh... didn't know that...

Dunno where I got that from.... thatnks for correcting me.

Here's the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States

maybe you were thinking of states tha tlet you carry concealed without a permit

 youbedead wrote:
maybe you were thinking of states tha tlet you carry concealed without a permit

Okay...how's this?

"Didn't know what the feth I was thinking!"

Kewl?

 Hordini wrote:

 whembly wrote:


My brother got me thinking of this... he lives in Arizona, and it's one of the two "open carry" states (Colorado is the other one?).
.

There are a lot more than just two open carry states. You can open carry in Ohio as well.

currently 42 states allow open carry, 12 unrestricted,13 require a license, and 17 have unclear laws or have certain restrictions
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States (the image on the right labelling the states which allow open carry)