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Would a space marine chapter master or any other space marine ever make chapters from his gene seed so he could have more man power, like if a chapter master lost his chapter then he made 4 or 5 chapters from his own gene seed, because each space marine carries 2, he would remove one then grow more from other humans until he could start his chapters? Or maybe if a few of his marines left make a chapter of of each of their gen seeds, would this even be possible? I mean it would be possible to grow more but could he actually keep the chapters under his command and still not be prosecuted by the imperium? I'd think that they'd just be a standing force or a crusading force. Well just let me know what you guys think, thanks

Look up the Astral Claws. What Huron did was kinda, sorta like what you're describing. Kinda.

The reason I am asking this is because I had an idea for a group of chapters where 15 Marlnes are survivors from a chapter home world being destroyed by forces of chaos, so each one of the survivors create a gene seed from one of their seeds, in order to fight the chaos army that destroyed their world. Each chapter would take on both the chararistics of the role they played in the chapter and where there from and what they did before they were recruited as space marines. Like one of them would be a techmarine chapter responsible for all the armour/tanks/ships that they need. One of all apothecarys that are like battle medics for the other chapters, siege marines, etc.

Whilst I do like the whole idea of a survivalist warrior-brotherhood going forth to spawn their own army each, I have to say that fluffwise this creates a bit of a problem.

Creating Space Marines takes a lot of archaeotechnical know-how, not to mention the necessary equipment (which tends to be expensive, rare, and large). If the Chapter's homeworld was destroyed, they will have no way to actually use this surplus geneseed. Not to mention the small detail of where these Astartes would get their tanks and armour from, without a forge?

The only entity that legally creates new Space Marine Chapters is the Adeptus Terra, which coincidentally also keeps vast geneseed storages of all Marine Chapters so that they have the power to create or destroy Chapters at will.
As mentioned, each legally funded Chapter owns the equipment necessary to create new Space Marines, and could theoretically use it to spawn more warriors than they should as per the limitations in the Codex Astartes. However, this might be (a) regarded as suspicious by Imperial authorities and (b) still won't enable any such "Shadow Successors" to create their own Battle-Brothers, since you're still only going to have one set of machinery.

What you could do is maybe look for a "patron Chapter", some sort of Astartes Ally that always had a good relationship with your guys in the past, or perhaps even owes them a debt of honour. Perhaps they would allow your Marines to clone a bunch of new Marines from their geneseed in secret, and even provide them with equipment. Not much, but over many decades or centuries enough so that these 15 Marines become a full Company or something. Waaay off from a full Chapter, but enough to (a) go on their ancient quest and (b) field them on the table.

Alternatively, you could also have these 15 survivors petition the Adeptus Terra for allowance to create a single new Space Marine Chapter that aims to use all of these brothers' geneseed. Either divided into various unique squads, or divided into various roles within the Chapter (so that one template is used for all Assault Marines, another is used for all Tacticals, another is used for all Sergeants etc). It would be somewhat different from the standard approach of allowing the Marines to specialise into various roles as part of their individual aptitude or even rise in rank, but this could be the Chapter's second unique trait. Actually, you could create a rather interesting and grimdark narrative from it if you mention some sort of growing unrest within the Chapter as this degree of specialisation has led to the creation of "castes", and some of the Battle Brothers do not like being barred from remaining limited to their station just because they were not given the "officer template geneseed" as they were inducted. Similarly, the "officer caste" is somewhat arrogant in that they did not really earn their posts but basically had it pre-determined by the geneseed selection. A side-effect which was not foreseen by the original 15 Space Marines (most/all of whom are dead by then).

I was thinking that they would still have maybe a ship or two, and I figured one would be a bio ship, and between the tech marine and apothecary that they would have enough knowledge, and that the techmarine chapter could supply all the war supplies when they had a forge world setup, however I do like the idea of a chapter owing them, that would help with getting the supplies to create new marines and to setup the forge world, would there be any way to legitimize the chapters such as, they stop a chaos crusade heading towards imperial planets? Maybe the inquisition would allow them to be protectors of an area, however they must give large amounts of their gene seed to the mechanics, I'm just thinking it would be cool to have brother chapters, that's why I am trying to figure out a way I could run them.

_Apollo_ wrote:
The reason I am asking this is because I had an idea for a group of chapters where 15 Marlnes are survivors from a chapter home world being destroyed by forces of chaos, so each one of the survivors create a gene seed from one of their seeds, in order to fight the chaos army that destroyed their world. Each chapter would take on both the chararistics of the role they played in the chapter and where there from and what they did before they were recruited as space marines. Like one of them would be a techmarine chapter responsible for all the armour/tanks/ships that they need. One of all apothecarys that are like battle medics for the other chapters, siege marines, etc.

This would not work, for the following reasons:
1. The time needed to do this would be too long to keep it hidden (what the 15 marines are planning is illegal)
2. The resources needed to create a single chapter, let alone 15, is massive. 15 lone marines would find it impossible to get them without being found.
3. A chapter world that has suffered such a prolonged and devastating invasion would be a high priority world with alot of interest from various IoM bodies, including other chapters. This would make it very hard for the 15 marines to do anything. They would either be sent on a crusade if the chapter was found wanting (due to poor defences), absorbed into another chapter (a chapter that responded to help) or be inducted into the Deathwatch.l
4. How will they find recruits, as their homeworld is either destroyed or too chaos infested to use, they would have to find other suitable worlds to recruit from, which would be in another chapter's area or be a world with IoM representatives.
5. Even if they got around the first four issues they would still be 15 unknown chapters fighting together as a single force, such events would be found out and investigated, breaking one of the founding tenents of the IoM after the Horus Heresy would not go unpunished.

If you want 'brother' chapters you have other options:
1. the Unforgiven all act as a single force are times with high ranking chapter members being part of a council.
2. Most chapter foundings are not a few chapters being dotted here and there, they have a purpose, usual defending certain areas of space, with alot of cooperation between the chapters.

So if there just a group of chapters protecting a region of space, and the chapter masters all served on a council together, would that work? It'd be similar to the way the warder news in the badab war were with the astral claws and the mantis and the other chapter were. I think I could still run that

Alternative : make your chapter/chapters a crusader chapter. This way, they would have all the equipment needed on a mobile fortress-monastery.
The 15 are back, and they are alone with the servitors / tech adepts.

But as a chapter planet, a working fortress monatery would not go unnoticed.

 Seb wrote:
Alternative : make your chapter/chapters a crusader chapter. This way, they would have all the equipment needed on a mobile fortress-monastery.
The 15 are back, and they are alone with the servitors / tech adepts.

But as a chapter planet, a working fortress monatery would not go unnoticed.

Do you mean not apart of the imperium anymore?
Or that there just inn space and they float around killing things.

The IoM doesn't take kindly to unsanctioned gene-seed use and expects the tithe to the gene-banks back on Terra. I think a Chapter Master can petition for additional gene-seed, but I don't have any Fluffrences for you.

As has been quoted above, read about the Astral Claws and note the tragic consequences when a Chapter Master has ideas of his own.

Also, note what is happening to the Crimson Fists after their tragic loss or how the Ultramarines handled the loss of nearly their entire 1st company. Time is the only real solution, anything else is heresy as far as I'm aware.

Does anyone have any ideas for reasons this circumstance might be pardoned, such as a suicide mission?

_Apollo_ wrote:
Does anyone have any ideas for reasons this circumstance might be pardoned, such as a suicide mission?

Not really.

1. If it's a suicide mission then its simply go and die in a fight you can't win. Not go and rebuild your chapter while pretending to try and die.

2. If a chapter is sent on a penance crusade it is normally for a set length of time. During this time the chapter can not recruit new marines. After the time is up, if the chapter is still at the point of being able to function then good for them, all is forgivin and they can carry on.

Fifteen narines will never be able to rebuild a chapter. Even after you comb through hundreds of possible prospects, you will find a small handful that have the compatibility to become marines. Even after that, more will die during the impantations. It is not a perfect science, accidents will happen and hidden incompalities will be fatal.

Read the Sons of Dorn for a decent look at going from prospects to full marines. Not a lot make it.

Thanks for the book suggestion, I meant like they build up their chapters from machinery bought, stole, or salvaged , then they created their chapters and then they went on their penance crusade, plausible? I just am looking for a way for the chapters to be true battle brothers, where each other marine shares a piece of each other, I think it'd be a good group of maries to write about and that it would just be cool having the combined vengeance of 15 chapters against a CSM war band.

Actually my chapter has a similar history. Basically while crusading at the edge of galaxy the ship is trapped in a small system by a warp storm. To survive the chapter master choose to train the local populace to be good marines. 5000 years past and the storms die down then fun stuff happen.

Oh sweet dude, do you have the story put up on dakka? I'd love to read it.

_Apollo_ wrote:
Thanks for the book suggestion, I meant like they build up their chapters from machinery bought, stole, or salvaged , then they created their chapters and then they went on their penance crusade, plausible? I just am looking for a way for the chapters to be true battle brothers, where each other marine shares a piece of each other, I think it'd be a good group of maries to write about and that it would just be cool having the combined vengeance of 15 chapters against a CSM war band.

The only real main problem with what you are trying to do is that fifteen chapters is a massive amount of force. In power, materials, weight, everything. When the Imperium specifically founded chapters to patrol the Eye Of Terror, they only created a dozen. Against a single warband, even if it's led by a deamon primarch himself, fifteen chapters would be overkill to the point of humor. Not the serious writing I think you are trying to go for.

Something else you might want to look into is the Sons of Medusa. Basically there was an internal schism with the mechanius. Chapters close the AdMech (Iron Hands in this case) got caught up in it. Rather than start a civil war within the chapter the Iron Hands exiled a good portion of it's members with an oath to never strike a brother marine. After several centureies the Sons of Medusa continued to act as regular chapter, even tithing it's geneseed. When the Imperium got around to solving the whole mess, the judged the Sons as loyal and worthy. To prove it the Sons were sent as the main force to punish the heretics in this event. As far as I know, this is the only canon example of a chapter being created and recognised without having been created by the high lords themselves.

Something along the remains of several companies from a decimated chapter splitting to form crusade fleets/full chapters would be the best idea. Keep the fifteen characters but trim it down to the only the senior members of 2-4 companies. Captain, Techmarine, Apothocary and some guard from each company. Merge the basic idea of black templar fleets operating close together with the official sperating of the Sons of Medusa and you could have something legit.

I didn't think of It that way thanks man

The real problem is, in the short form, is that what you're suggesting would take hundreds of years to accomplish from scratch, and then they'd still have to figure out how to procure enough weapons, gear, and ships to outfit those Marines.

The reason why the AdMech controls creation of new chapters is that they're really the only ones who have the resources to do it. Pretty much everything the Marines use is rare and expensive.

If another chapter owed them favorurs could they possibly get the required equipment?

Not really...
What they are doing is so highly illegal it'd make assisting them a fairly large crime in the Imperium's eyes...
Also the time it would take would make the entire thing... difficult.
The idea of 15 chapters and their Chapter Masters serving on a council of those chapters in order to co-ordinate operations would make sense.

_Apollo_ wrote:
If another chapter owed them favorurs could they possibly get the required equipment?

Not sure a Chapter has spare equipment laying around.

I guess they could petition a Forge World for equipment or the Adeptus Terra direct, but a Chapter isn't going to give up anything, regardless of favours.

 purplefood wrote:

The idea of 15 chapters and their Chapter Masters serving on a council of those chapters in order to co-ordinate operations would make sense.

Yup, much like the Adeptus Praeses Chapters as seen in Dark Creed.