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Chaplain Levitcius wrote: Exactly my point: Eastwood was dialoging with the empty chair just as we have seen in the works of Shakespeare. But nobody is derogatory and asks where Shakespeare's meds are. I guess that had something to do with the message.
No one in Shakespeare talked to an empty chair. if you honestly don't know the difference between an aside or a soliloquy and talking to an empty chair then you don't' understand theater
Hordini wrote: It's being talked about because you said $80,000 was a low salary for a management position. I said it wasn't low for management. If you'd said "$80,000 is a low salary for white collar professional managers like you get in government" I would have said, "I agree." Which kind of goes hand in hand with why I said I didn't agree with the idea of an $80,000 salary cap.
I thought in the context it would be fairly obvious that we would be talking about management positions that are in government. So financial managers, HR managers, that kind of stuff.
Edit - Thanks for posting the link, that clarifies a lot. I still stand by my opinion that $80,000 isn't low, and there is a really broad range in salaries there, but you're right, going by the population it seems there are a lot of managers making a lot more money than what's on the really low (40-50k) range.
$80,000 is really low for the kinds of managment skill sets you see in government and other corporate environments. You can't get HR managers or financial managers for $80,000.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
WarOne wrote: You get discussion points here in America about how unpopular giving more money to politicians and government are. Heck, even keeping their current pay is absurdly challenged at times. Any mention of what legislators make simply ignores how a legislator gets his position.
No denying you can make all kinds of noise about dropping the pay of politicians and government workers and score lots of votes among certain groups of voters. My point is that in terms of actually resolving any issues in government it's a nonsense that won't achieve anything.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chaplain Levitcius wrote: Exactly my point: Eastwood was dialoging with the empty chair just as we have seen in the works of Shakespeare. But nobody is derogatory and asks where Shakespeare's meds are. I guess that had something to do with the message.
No. As I already explain to you quite clearly, the issue is that it is hard to have a person talk to an imaginary person and have it work. Shakespeare, being very gifted got it to work, whereas Eastwood's speach was excruciating to sit through.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/09/05 04:12:06
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Obama has managed to play golf almost once every two weeks since becoming President? How shocking and appalling. How dare he try to have an outdoor hobby?
Bad argument in that article. I was slightly amused and actually kind of insulted when the writer disparaged having a tournament as a birthday activity, or asking a player in a card game to focus. I really like hearing that the President likes to compete in games, and takes them seriously. That's something I can identify with.
As one of the commenters pointed out, being extremely competitive and confident are qualities pretty close to universal among CEOs, among other ambitious people.
The valid criticism in there was of the quotes which suggest overconfidence, or even arrogance. I could absolutely see a compelling line of attack based on those. But the overall thrust of the article was stupid, and the attempted tie-in to Eastwood was flimsy and silly; probably just tacked on to try to draw clicks from people who enjoy reading about the original story.
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More than anything else, I'm just sad that that kind of bs gets treated as political commentary. Put it in the gossip pages, next to the crap about who was best dressed at the latest film opening, and maybe then it's okay.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Heaven forbid someone put actual effort and practice into their hobbies. That's just... un-amurcn'
Arrogance is a negative quality if you don't actually meet your estimation of yourself. I don't think being a perfectionist is a bad thing until it bleeds into obsession.
But, I mean, it's Forbes. Can we really expect them not to take a bit like that and run with it?
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
Forbes seems to have gone downhill, or maybe it was just me remembering them through rose-tinted glasses.
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I see their argument though, the PRESIDENT, that is the man who commands our entire country, should spend less time on trivial pursuits when there are profoundly more important tasks that need tending to. being President isnt a Privilege, its a responsibility, i can understand SOME down time, but maybe Mr. Obama is having too much down time?
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Seriously. Do some research before making these claims.
Even with a large amount of downtime in this day and age of global communication the fact that one is on vacation does nothing to prevent the President from being involved in the day to day necessities of his office.
thats not at all what i was talking about, if you bothered to read the Forbes article, you'd have gotten that. do some research before assuming you know what your talking about.
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jordanis wrote: I see their argument though, the PRESIDENT, that is the man who commands our entire country, should spend less time on trivial pursuits when there are profoundly more important tasks that need tending to. being President isnt a Privilege, its a responsibility, i can understand SOME down time, but maybe Mr. Obama is having too much down time?
But the amount of time spent playing cards on a plane can't be used to measure how much time a person is spent being President. It's an impossible thing. Stop, and actually think about how one thing (President plays games seriously) became another inside your head (President isn't spending enough time doing his job). Actually try and get from A to B.
I mean, think about the statement "I play an hour of cards every day". Think about how much that actually tells you about how much time they spend doing other things. I mean, an hour of cards is a hell of a lot of cards, but it doesn't prevent a person from otherwise spending 15 hours on the job, especially if their work has taken them away from their family.
And now please stop, and again think about how you went from "President plays games seriously" to "President isn't spending enough time doing his job".
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
How he spends extraordinary amounts of time and energy to compete in — trivialities.
For someone dealing with the world’s weightiest matters, Mr. Obama spends surprising energy perfecting even less consequential pursuits.
The leader of the free world spends many hours practicing these trivial pursuits behind the scenes.
all direct Copy-Paste quotes from the Forbes Article. you guys are rediculous, it took me 30 seconds of skimming the article to find that, and i could find a lot more if i bothered to spend the time to completely read both the Forbes article and the NYT article.
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Imperial Navy Strike force: 3000 points, all made from styrene sheet and cardboard cracker boxes...oh yea.
How he spends extraordinary amounts of time and energy to compete in — trivialities.
For someone dealing with the world’s weightiest matters, Mr. Obama spends surprising energy perfecting even less consequential pursuits.
The leader of the free world spends many hours practicing these trivial pursuits behind the scenes.
all direct Copy-Paste quotes from the Forbes Article. you guys are rediculous, it took me 30 seconds of skimming the article to find that, and i could find a lot more if i bothered to spend the time to completely read both the Forbes article and the NYT article.
Which does not answer the quesiton:
Do YOU think that him spending time doing "trivial" things keeps him from being president, and if so why?
all direct Copy-Paste quotes from the Forbes Article. you guys are rediculous, it took me 30 seconds of skimming the article to find that, and i could find a lot more if i bothered to spend the time to completely read both the Forbes article and the NYT article.
Again, 104 games of golf in 4 years is not a lot. Bowling, basketball, and playing cards are also not terribly time consuming activities. You said it yourself--and it shows-- that you haven't read either article. Had you read both, you might come to the conclusion that the Forbes article is skewing the information presented in the NYTimes article far out of context. This is just a case of journalistic opportunism. Forbes is pandering to their audience.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/05 08:03:19
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
jordanis wrote: all direct Copy-Paste quotes from the Forbes Article. you guys are rediculous, it took me 30 seconds of skimming the article to find that, and i could find a lot more if i bothered to spend the time to completely read both the Forbes article and the NYT article.
You didn't even spend the time to read your own article. Well I guess by the logic you're claiming in this thead you have enough time to be President. So Hail to the Chief.
God damn this is stupid. I mean, really, just go back and read my post. Read it two or three times if you have to. Really think over the leap from 'plays games' to 'doesn't spend enough time doing President things' that you made. If you need to right up a timetable of how you think a President might spend their day. Plot out the time spent talking to various important people, and the time spent briefing those meetings. Consider travel time, and sleep. Then think about how little you know about the day to day schedule of a President, and how much wild eyed speculative nonsense you have to assume to conclude that the President doesn't have time in his day to play some card games.
Then stop with this god damn stupid bs.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Don't forget to consider that with modern communications that even when the President isn't in the Office he is still just as connected and still essentially at work. A President doesn't ever go anywhere alone, and are mobile command centers that are plugged in at all times; there really is no such thing as vacation in the normal idea of the concept so much as just not being in the White House. I suppose they might get to sleep in an extra hour if they are 'on vacation'.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I mean honestly how much time can a president actually spend 'doing' stuff. Strictly speaking he doesn't have to do anything until congress passes a bill, until then he can just sit there if he wants
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youbedead wrote: I mean honestly how much time can a president actually spend 'doing' stuff. Strictly speaking he doesn't have to do anything until congress passes a bill, until then he can just sit there if he wants
Only is he wants to be a failure.
1) He is in charge of the operation of the US government. if nothing else, if competent thats a full time job.
2) Additionally there's domestic and foreign policy development. if you want to have an agenda you have to create and work that agenda. That was reagan's strength. He had two or three main points: get the economy moving; kill the evil empire; eat jelly beans. He focused on it relentlessly and succeeded.
As a nice aside, at this time in his presidency, after an equally bad recession but with the joy of inflation, GDP was 4.5% in 1983 and 7.2% in 1984. Mmm...the good old days.
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jordanis wrote: I see their argument though, the PRESIDENT, that is the man who commands our entire country, should spend less time on trivial pursuits when there are profoundly more important tasks that need tending to. being President isnt a Privilege, its a responsibility, i can understand SOME down time, but maybe Mr. Obama is having too much down time?
I don't usually pay attention to this kind of thing. Bush was getting jumped all over for a similar thing during his presidency. This is a job that puts the years on a man, anda lot off the time, they are still on the job even if it seems like they're on vacation from what I've read and been told.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/06 14:56:30
The same people who believe government is the enemy to all that is good in the world (except for bombing Iran and putting black men into prison) are now complaining that the very person they hate who runs the hated institution of government is somehow not governing enough?
I'm not saying you folks are stupid and should be ashamed of yourselves, but I'm not not saying that either.
That was a pretty bad call on the DNC part leaving them out.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I would read whats on the party platform to actually CYA before it kicked off to....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/06 17:36:19
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Now the Democrats are bring ing up celebreties today IIRC. Really, if I could force myself to watch one of these things I would start to get offended. Now we just need a high kicking Broadway number.
I propose this to end it:
Alternatively a nice patriotic ending:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/06 20:33:48
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I say both parties need to get together to do the river dance.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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