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That's the unedited Japanese version.

The Civil was over States Rights. The US Government was telling the States what they had to do. In response many States succeed from the Union, basically telling the Federal Government to “Go to Blazes”. The Confederate Flag was the flag they chose. It is a part of our history and should not be outlawed by those who are ignorant of the Politics of the Times.

I bet you if you asked any one under the age of 30 what the Civil War was over, there answer would be Slavery and they would only be partly right. This in the since that the State Right they were fighting over was Slavery. If you told them that part they would look at you like you had no idea what you were talking about.

My family fought on both sides of the Civil War. I am proud of that heritage. The Flag of the Union and the Flag of the Confederacy are both part of that. If I flew Both Flags and I was told to take one Down, I would be insulted no mater witch one it was.

Now do to a bunch of Ignorant People I can’t fly the one given to my by my Grandfather without someone coming up to me telling me I am a Racist or a Nazi. I am neither!

As far as the General Lee losing its Flag, they might as well name it the Mcullen and put the Union Flag on it and change the site of the Dukes to Ohio.

Yes, it was over State's Rights. That doesn't change the fact the Confederates were fighting to keep their slaves as well.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
While Ill be the first to bash anyone who flies a confederate flag, This us just stupid. ITs part of the show and its incongraphy. It wuld be like making Daisy 350 pounds.

You can have a word with the state of Georgia. They fly hem at every state building. Good luck on your trip.

Smoking some



Stars and Bars, at least in this country seems to have a wide range of beliefs of the flag stands for. Some it is a symbol of southern pride, for others it's a symbol of racism and the oppression of a people.

Don't really have an opinion of which one is more accurate, not sure if there is one.

If someone wants to wave a flag in the name of Racial superiority, let them, I support free speech in all forms. Just don't complain if people call you a douchebag for being racist.

Though I have to wonder, if the stars and bars are seen as a symbol of incarceration, murder etc. what do some people think of the stars and stripes? Native Americans, Maxicans, Filipinos, etc?

I wonder how many of the soldiers in the CSA were actual slave owners....

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grammer

From what I understand hardly any. There were probably several times more slaves forced into fighting than actual slave owners fighting.

Having been born and lived in the South for my whole life, I have to say, the majority of people I know that fly the confederate flag are not racists or white-supremacists, just good-ole-fashioned rednecks. Unless you happen to be a deer or six pack of cheap beer, they're harmless.

 Jihadin wrote:
I wonder how many of the soldiers in the CSA were actual slave owners....

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grammer

War wasnt much different then then it is now: poor folks fighting and dying to the benefit of the rich and elite.

Not to mention I wonder how many who weren't would have choosen to be so if gven the opportunity?

They knew what they were fighting to support even if they didnt have slaves themselves.

 Jihadin wrote:
I wonder how many of the soldiers in the CSA were actual slave owners....

edit
grammer

Very few.

Most southerners could barely afford shoes or not at all. Purchasing a slave would be out of the question.

Like the North, there were ways to avoid getting drafted, you could pay someone to take your place which was looked down upon by people in the North and South but they still did it, I'm not sure what the price was in the South, but in the North it was 300 bucks.

If you owned 20 or more slaved you could dodge the draft, rail road worker, river boat operator, black smith or any skilled job important to the war effort.

Piston Honda wrote:

If you owned 20 or more slaves you could dodge the draft

That is pretty much still true today isnt it (in principle)?

War wasnt much different then then it is now: poor folks fighting and dying to the benefit of the rich and elite.

I've met all types while in the service

 CT GAMER wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:

If you owned 20 or more slaves you could dodge the draft

That is pretty much still true today isnt it (in principle)?

Or you could pull a Pat Robertson and have your daddy (a politician) pull some stringers for you to avoid war. But only to brag how you were a combat marine many years later while trying to run for President.

I love that absolutely BS claim that only the poor and minorities go fight and die.

Newsflash for y'all, the infantry predominantly white, and the various special forces communities are even more white. The percentage of whites in the infantry is higher than the national population average.

There are people with Bachelor's Degrees that enlist. There are people from rich families that enlist.

 Amaya wrote:
Yes, it was over State's Rights. That doesn't change the fact the Confederates were fighting to keep their slaves as well.

I never claimed otherwise.

That sill does not make “The Flag” Evil. The fact that no one is willing to stand up and tell everyone what it really stood for, The Right For States To Govern Themselves. Every time I bring up that the Civil War was over States Rights I end up becoming Vilified for defending Southern Slavery.

Even General Robert E. Lee said that Slavery was not what he was fighting for. Lincoln also said if he could End the war without freeing a single save he would have taken it. General Sherman [One of my Military Heroes] was a Racist and did not see the need to free the Slaves.
They chose to do so not because it was the right morel thing to do, but it was the right Political and Strategic thing to do.

Personally I don’t think we do enough here in the US to stop Slavery in the world currently. I personally think we aught to take the US Special Forces go find every Slaver in the world and put a bullet in there head, but that should be for another discussion.

I should point out one thing I do Believe EVERYONE IS RACIST on some level, I don’t care who you are, including my self, I just acknowledge that I am and try not to be. Any one who tells you he is not is lying either to you or himself.

Will they also rename the car - "General Grant"?

Stupid move, that's all I can say on this. And I'm usually in favour of harsher enforcement against offensive symbols! The irony that you guys could still wave SS standards and swastika banners on the streets without the cops crashing down on you, yet the Confederacy flag is removed from this iconic car due to political correctness hurts my brain.

rubiksnoob wrote:Having been born and lived in the South for my whole life, I have to say, the majority of people I know that fly the confederate flag are not racists or white-supremacists, just good-ole-fashioned rednecks. Unless you happen to be a deer or six pack of cheap beer, they're harmless.

This is what I'd expect from the average owner of such a flag, too. Then again, I'm a foreigner.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
Yes, it was over State's Rights. That doesn't change the fact the Confederates were fighting to keep their slaves as well.

I never claimed otherwise.

That sill does not make “The Flag” Evil. The fact that no one is willing to stand up and tell everyone what it really stood for, The Right For States To Govern Themselves. Every time I bring up that the Civil War was over States Rights I end up becoming Vilified for defending Southern Slavery.

Even General Robert E. Lee said that Slavery was not what he was fighting for. Lincoln also said if he could End the war without freeing a single save he would have taken it. General Sherman [One of my Military Heroes] was a Racist and did not see the need to free the Slaves.
They chose to do so not because it was the right morel thing to do, but it was the right Political and Strategic thing to do.

Personally I don’t think we do enough here in the US to stop Slavery in the world currently. I personally think we aught to take the US Special Forces go find every Slaver in the world and put a bullet in there head, but that should be for another discussion.

I should point out one thing I do Believe EVERYONE IS RACIST on some level, I don’t care who you are, including my self, I just acknowledge that I am and try not to be. Any one who tells you he is not is lying either to you or himself.

How you can be racist if you don't even think races exist? You can try and make twisted arguments to defend the flag. I can use those same arguments to defend the Nazi Swastika.

 Anpu42 wrote:
The Civil was over States Rights.

Their right to own slaves. That's all it was about. The ownership of people, who were used like animals in a brutal and inhuman industry of evil. The people who controlled the Southern states were scared that the Northern states would put a stop to it; scared because their economy was based around it.
http://www.thehypertexts.com/What%20caused%20the%20Civil%20War%20Slavery.htm

Amaya wrote:The percentage of whites in the infantry is higher than the national population average.

I'm not sure on current numbers, but I know that this wasn't the case during the Vietnam War.

Amaya wrote:How you can be racist if you don't even think races exist?

The latter is what his logic tells him, the former is how society raised him?
You know, you can feel something first, even though in the next moment you may be ashamed of yourself for doing so. I think that is what he's trying to express, and I think I understand it.

 Amaya wrote:
I love that absolutely BS claim that only the poor and minorities go fight and die.

Newsflash for y'all, the infantry predominantly white, and the various special forces communities are even more white. The percentage of whites in the infantry is higher than the national population average.

I didnt see anyone here mention race as a pecursor to service?

I disagree. You can dislike aspects or the entirety of different cultures and be misconstrued as a racist though.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CT GAMER wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
I love that absolutely BS claim that only the poor and minorities go fight and die.

Newsflash for y'all, the infantry predominantly white, and the various special forces communities are even more white. The percentage of whites in the infantry is higher than the national population average.

I didnt see anyone here mention race as a pecursor to service?

A higher percentage of the poor in America are minorities. Prior to the Gulf War it was suggested that minorities (particularly blacks) were being sent to go die which is a blatant lie.

 Amaya wrote:
I love that absolutely BS claim that only the poor and minorities go fight and die.

He didn't say that only they do. But historically a larger percentage of poor people go into the military, due to lack of other economic opportunities. They also tend to make up the bulk of the grunts, dying in the trenches, as opposed to wealthier folks who make up a higher percentage of the officers and leadership.

 Jihadin wrote:
It was a battle standard. It got the negative press when the hate groups took it up.

That only makes sense if we assume 'hate groups' means the Confederacy.

 Amaya wrote:
I disagree. You can dislike aspects or the entirety of different cultures and be misconstrued as a racist though.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CT GAMER wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
I love that absolutely BS claim that only the poor and minorities go fight and die.

Newsflash for y'all, the infantry predominantly white, and the various special forces communities are even more white. The percentage of whites in the infantry is higher than the national population average.

I didnt see anyone here mention race as a pecursor to service?

A higher percentage of the poor in America are minorities. Prior to the Gulf War it was suggested that minorities (particularly blacks) were being sent to go die which is a blatant lie.

So you made an unfounded assumption that when i stated the poor serve that I was referring to non-whites.

I never said that, nor was it my point. That is on you.

Very telling...

Amaya wrote:A higher percentage of the poor in America are minorities. Prior to the Gulf War it was suggested that minorities (particularly blacks) were being sent to go die which is a blatant lie.

Well, during the Vietnam War ...
Percentage of black people in the populace: 11%
Ratio of black soldiers in the infantry: 12.6%
Ratio of black soldiers amongst combat casualties: 14.9%

Small but noticeable difference. The recruitment is probably more an economical thing, because poor people were more likely to join up. Yet the casualty ratio is interesting.

 Mannahnin wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
I love that absolutely BS claim that only the poor and minorities go fight and die.

He didn't say that only they do. But historically a larger percentage of poor people go into the military, due to lack of other economic opportunities. They also tend to make up the bulk of the grunts, dying in the trenches, as opposed to wealthier folks who make up a higher percentage of the officers and leadership.

I don't know if there is data on economic backgrounds of those serving in particular MOSs but I think this assertion would be proven incorrect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:

Amaya wrote:A higher percentage of the poor in America are minorities. Prior to the Gulf War it was suggested that minorities (particularly blacks) were being sent to go die which is a blatant lie.

Well, during the Vietnam War ...
Percentage of black people in the populace: 11%
Ratio of black soldiers in the infantry: 12.6%
Ratio of black soldiers amongst combat casualties: 14.9%

Small but noticeable difference. The recruitment is probably more an economical thing, because poor people were more likely to join up. Yet the casualty ratio is interesting.

This was a result of the draft. Look at the numbers for the Gulf War and War on Terror if they're available.

Amaya wrote:This was a result of the draft. Look at the numbers for the Gulf War and War on Terror if they're available.

What was a result of the draft? That black people are more likely to die on the front lines?

I'm not argueing that it got better.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Edit: The Confederate Flag was not a symbol of hate. It was a symbol of freedom.

The problem, fundamentally, is that what you've written there is complete and utter bunk. There is nothing redeeming about the Confederacy or their rebellion. It was not a war of freedom, but a war undertaken to protect their ability to keep black people enslaved.

http://usiraq.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000671

What war are we focusing on in this debate portion? Vietnam or OIF/OEF?