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So, I just finished a game up with my friend (Happygrunt) where I was trying out the new Ork bommer Box. I wanted to try out the Blitza-bommer , even though I have been told that the Dakkajet is the only way to go... Well, he took super heavy armour, in an attempt to thwart my weapons (a Bastion and a Landraider at 1000 pts). 2nd turn i damaged the bastion, causing it to only be able to snap fire, 3rd turn i destroyed it. Then 4th turn i destroyed the land raider, and good ol' Happy surrendered. So tell me dakka, Why not Blitza-Bommer?

As an Ork player, random CAN be acceptable.

I use the Shokk Attack Gun and Lootas when a feel like it and it's plenty random and Orky.

However, those units are capable of fulfilling roles effectively despite being random.

The Dakkajet gives you flying Lootas that are BS3 twin-linked and you can get around faster!

The Burna Bommer gives you more anti-infantry (so does the dakkajet), but less effectively than the dakkajet.

The Blitza Bommer gives you less anti-infantry and a chance for you plane to kill itself.

Sometimes the randomness is good, sometimes it isn't, but point for point, the dakkajet is the most reliable so far.

But when the plane kills itself, dosen't the explosion still happen and at increased strength?

 Happygrunt wrote:
But when the plane kills itself, dosen't the explosion still happen and at increased strength?

Yes, you'd get a Large Blast that'd do damage, at the cost of 135 points!

Plus, you only get 2 bombs, they're ap4 if they work and small blast.

The Dakkajet with all the jazz is the same cost as a red paint-less Blitza Bommer and the Dakkajet will out perform it.

Those are all valid points, though, I think I will stick with the Bommer, purely due to it being more entertaining (for me at least), though may pick up a dakkajet some time.

 WarrKing wrote:
Those are all valid points, though, I think I will stick with the Bommer, purely due to it being more entertaining (for me at least), though may pick up a dakkajet some time.

Just remember, my stormraven can take you! (But apparently, not my Icarus...)

Dat's OK.

We can take yer Stormraven...and Ork it up!

Dr. What wrote:
As an Ork player, random CAN be acceptable.

I use the Shokk Attack Gun and Lootas when a feel like it and it's plenty random and Orky.

However, those units are capable of fulfilling roles effectively despite being random.

The Dakkajet gives you flying Lootas that are BS3 twin-linked and you can get around faster!

The Burna Bommer gives you more anti-infantry (so does the dakkajet), but less effectively than the dakkajet.

The Blitza Bommer gives you less anti-infantry and a chance for you plane to kill itself.

Sometimes the randomness is good, sometimes it isn't, but point for point, the dakkajet is the most reliable so far.

I disagree.

The three fliers are part of a spectrum.

Burna Bomma is Anti-Infantry. Blasts that are wounding on 3's, that are ap4, and ignore cover - and the ability to hit two separate targets in one turn. Half the armies in the game will only ever get invul saves against such things. Has Supa Shoota and Big Shoota to augment this ability.

Blitza Bomma is Anti-Armour. Designed to break vehicles with a small blast that averages str14 on the penetration roll - OR str9 ap2 at worst. You are very likely to get a penetration on your target, assuming scatter doesn't ruin your day, and can potentially fire its guns in the movement phase at the same target, AND then fire at another target in the shooting phase.

Dakka Jet is the Middle Ground and the Anti-Air. A high amount of str6 shots allows it to target both infantry and lighter vehicles. It's potential to kill infantry compared to the Burna Bomma is circumstantial (possibly not as many hits, and you can get cover against the shots), but it far excels at killing lighter vehicles than the Blitza Bomma, can't can't affect armour 13-14, which the blitza can easily break through. The high number higher strength shots also means its arguably the best tool against weaker enemy fliers.

The issue with the Blitza Bomma is down to the fact that it only gets a single penetration on vehicles that now have multiple hull points. Considering you will need a 6 to kill vehicles in 5th with non-low ap weapons, there's only a 16% chance that you kill it, assuming you manage to penetrate (which is actually likely, unless its a Landraider), AND that your small blast doesn't scatter off the vehicle.

The other two fliers are fantastic for what they do, though the Dakka-Jet tends to come out on top since it's more usable against more armies, considering half of them have 3+ armour saves everywhere.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 WarrKing wrote:
Those are all valid points, though, I think I will stick with the Bommer, purely due to it being more entertaining (for me at least), though may pick up a dakkajet some time.

Just remember, my stormraven can take you! (But apparently, not my Icarus...)

Pfff, say that to the DAKKAjet player on a WAAAGH!. I dare you

None of them are truly amazing.
The blitzbomber is fun and can make a mess of the enemy.
Far too many points but you'll enjoy using it.

The dakkajet is probably more useful for the antiflyer, apart from against the stormraven.

MFletch wrote:
None of them are truly amazing.
The blitzbomber is fun and can make a mess of the enemy.
Far too many points but you'll enjoy using it.

The dakkajet is probably more useful for the antiflyer, apart from against the stormraven.

You keep saying that, without backing it up, or giving alternatives. What, in the ork codex, is better at doing what the planes do, for less points?

As for the blitza bommer, the real problem is it dropping only one bomb twice per game. If it had additional missiles like the skorcha bommer has, it would be much better.

 KingCracker wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

 WarrKing wrote:
Those are all valid points, though, I think I will stick with the Bommer, purely due to it being more entertaining (for me at least), though may pick up a dakkajet some time.

Just remember, my stormraven can take you! (But apparently, not my Icarus...)

Pfff, say that to the DAKKAjet player on a WAAAGH!. I dare you

You still need 6s to glance me... Although, you will have more than enough shots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

MFletch wrote:
None of them are truly amazing.
The blitzbomber is fun and can make a mess of the enemy.
Far too many points but you'll enjoy using it.

The dakkajet is probably more useful for the antiflyer, apart from against the stormraven.

You keep saying that, without backing it up, or giving alternatives. What, in the ork codex, is better at doing what the planes do, for less points?

As for the blitza bommer, the real problem is it dropping only one bomb twice per game. If it had additional missiles like the skorcha bommer has, it would be much better.

From being on the receiving end of a Blitzabomber, I think it is meant to soften up targets. It has the supa shoota for dealing with other aircraft (While not great, its not the worst option), and those two bombs will be going anywhere on the board. I think the bomber is meant to be used for crippling armor so your boyz can get in and fight the infantry. In the two games I have fought them in, I find that my tanks evaporate, or at lest lose a hullpoint and have to roll on the damage table, when two bombers show up.

 Jidmah wrote:

MFletch wrote:
None of them are truly amazing.
The blitzbomber is fun and can make a mess of the enemy.
Far too many points but you'll enjoy using it.

The dakkajet is probably more useful for the antiflyer, apart from against the stormraven.

You keep saying that, without backing it up, or giving alternatives. What, in the ork codex, is better at doing what the planes do, for less points?

Blitzbomba can hit twice 7+2d6 against side armour. Now if you take that as nearly reliable light armour destroyer then I can give you alternatives in the codex. Else as an unreliable heavy armour, actually it is unmatched as av14 is a pain but 2 shots with ap4 you have to get lucky.

Dakka jet. Actually due to its low strength I rate lootas as a better air defence else a quadgun or lascannon. As antiinfantry or light mech lootas are better though not mobile, try rocket buggies which happen to pretty good at shooting down flyers to boot.

Burnabomber is cool but I have never found it so hard to kill infantry.

Points can be better spent, their roles can be covered elsewhere in the codex if not precisely per unit.

MFletch wrote:
Points can be better spent, their roles can be covered elsewhere in the codex if not precisely per unit.

You dodged the question again. Where would you spend the points instead?

Oh, and I think we agree that the blitza bommer doesn't cut it in 6th, so let's talk about the other two only.

@Happygrunt:
The problem is, blitza bommers don't do enough damage to open up transports. Unless you're lucky, you will need at least two blitza bommers to crack a single rhino. At that point you'Ve already dropped two out of four bombs for the game.

How does 5 lootas and 3 cannons compare?

some str 7, some str 8, some blast for anti infantry. Not as manoueverable, subject to morale, but has 12 T7 wounds on the gunz

may not be better in every army, but another viable option.

Unless you need battlewagons, there is little reason to not fill your heavy support with kannons.

 Jidmah wrote:
Unless you need battlewagons, there is little reason to not fill your heavy support with kannons.

Not exactly.

You fill your heavy support based on what you need. Kannons are nice, but so are Battlewagons (yes, you covered these). Killa Kanz can lay down heavy fire as well but are capable of moving while doing it. The same goes for Deff Dreads. Flash gits are somewhat viable, but that's a personal opionion.

Kanz will fold like wet paper in combat to many units now(anyone with a grenade that can harm then), so there is no reason to actually move them forward as fast as possible. Besides, kannons have 36" range, as opposed to kanz 18"-24", so during the first two or three turns, kannons will have more reach than kanz. Unless you really want that AV target saturation, kannons are better than kanz.

Deff dreads are not a good shooting unit and should only ever be fielded as troops in addition to a big mek. Flash gits are a little less terrible than before, but still way overcosted to do anything.

The only real competition to kannons is the boomgun, but due to their newfound survivability and ridiculous low cost, the surpass even that.

Because Dakka Jet. With fighta ace, and three twin-linked supa shootas you are throwing out 9 str 7 shots each turn, and if you do it on the turn that you waaagh you get 18 str 7 shots.

CrimsonKing wrote:
Because Dakka Jet. With fighta ace, and three twin-linked supa shootas you are throwing out 9 str 7 shots each turn, and if you do it on the turn that you waaagh you get 18 str 7 shots.

Str 6, not 7

9 or 18 S6 shots at ballistic skill equivalent of 4 means 8 to16 S6 hits each turn. The blitz bomma is random but can do more. It is a matter of choice.

The idea of accurate orky fire is so foreign, it draws people (including me) like a moth to the flame.

Twin-linked BS3 is way better than BS4 (75% vs 66%).

Unless I am misreading it, most ground targets give a Dakkajet
+1 BS and Fighta Ace gives you BS3. So against ground targets you are pulling BS 4 on twin-linked supa shootas so that means 8 out of 9 on average hit. 9 Lootas for the equivalent cost give you 18 (average) shots of which 6 hit. So you have to be the judge whether you need S7.

BTW I wouldn't waste my points on a ADL with orks. Lootas at BS 1 can cover you quite well. 15 lootas 30 shots, 5 hits... Other than I can place my lootas in a defensive position.

DAaddict wrote:
Unless I am misreading it, most ground targets give a Dakkajet
+1 BS and Fighta Ace gives you BS3. So against ground targets you are pulling BS 4 on twin-linked supa shootas so that means 8 out of 9 on average hit. 9 Lootas for the equivalent cost give you 18 (average) shots of which 6 hit. So you have to be the judge whether you need S7.

Strafing Run allows you to get +1 BS against non-skimmers and non-jump infantry. Fighta Ace allows you to to get +1BS against skimmers and jump infantry in addition to the bonus granted by strafing run.. You never get bs4.

Just to check - is the general consensus that the Dakka Jet only gets BS2 against other zooming fliers?

 Kharrak wrote:

DAaddict wrote:
Unless I am misreading it, most ground targets give a Dakkajet
+1 BS and Fighta Ace gives you BS3. So against ground targets you are pulling BS 4 on twin-linked supa shootas so that means 8 out of 9 on average hit. 9 Lootas for the equivalent cost give you 18 (average) shots of which 6 hit. So you have to be the judge whether you need S7.

Strafing Run allows you to get +1 BS against non-skimmers and non-jump infantry. Fighta Ace allows you to to get +1BS against skimmers and jump infantry in addition to the bonus granted by strafing run.. You never get bs4.

Just to check - is the general consensus that the Dakka Jet only gets BS2 against other zooming fliers?

Apparently the iBook version of the white dwarf includes fliers in fighta ace.

 Jidmah wrote:
Apparently the iBook version of the white dwarf includes fliers in fighta ace.

Hmmmm.

Not entirely sure how this will gell with the upcoming tournament (if they will be allowing this ruling, or sticking to RaW in the White Dwarf), but it's good to know it exists somewhere in the aether.