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Polecat wrote:

Fragile wrote:

Units in your ARMY.... clearly states that your army can contain friendly and enemy units.

No, your army only contains friendly units. AoC units treat friendly allied units as enemy units, but they are still friendly units to you and your army. Otherwise AoC troops could not claim objectives.

Incorrect. Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units. That is the rule. It does not state that they treat "friendly allied units" as enemy units. Simplie AoC as enemy units (with the further stipulation that they, essentially, cannot be attacked by your army).

They can still claim objectives as they are units in YOUR army.

They cannot use wargear from the AoC's because they are treated as enemy units (and enemy units cannot use your wargear).

Rorschach9 wrote:

Incorrect. Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units. That is the rule. It does not state that they treat "friendly allied units" as enemy units. Simplie AoC as enemy units (with the further stipulation that they, essentially, cannot be attacked by your army).

They can still claim objectives as they are units in YOUR army.

You are right, I rememberd the scoring rules incorrectly. My mistake.

Rorschach9 wrote:


They cannot use wargear from the AoC's because they are treated as enemy units (and enemy units cannot use your wargear).

Do you have a rule quote for that claim?

Polecat wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

Incorrect. Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units. That is the rule. It does not state that they treat "friendly allied units" as enemy units. Simplie AoC as enemy units (with the further stipulation that they, essentially, cannot be attacked by your army).

They can still claim objectives as they are units in YOUR army.

You are right, I rememberd the scoring rules incorrectly. My mistake.

Rorschach9 wrote:


They cannot use wargear from the AoC's because they are treated as enemy units (and enemy units cannot use your wargear).

Do you have a rule quote for that claim?

In THIS particular case, we are discussing the Grey Knights Servo-skulls (GK Codex, page 62, "Equipment", "Servo-Skulls";

"A friendly unit arriving by Deep Strike..", "Friendly blast templates". Your AoC are not friendly units, despite being in your army, therefore, as per the rules for Servo Skulls, they cannot use them for this benefit.

In the same line, your AoC (ie : enemy) cannot set up infiltrators within 12" nor can they use their pre-game scout move to approach within 12" of the servo skulls, and if your AoC ("enemy" units) move within 6" of the servo skull it is removed from play.

Like I stated in previous posts, "friendly unit" phrase in Servo-skulls rules can be interpreted as a general reference to units in your army, like it was in 5th edition.

Polecat wrote:
Like I stated in previous posts, "friendly unit" phrase in Servo-skulls rules can be interpreted as a general reference to units in your army, like it was in 5th edition.

Except your Allies of Convenience are clearly ruled as "enemy units" in your army. Enemy units =/= friendly units.

They are treated as enemy units by AoC units. That does not make them enemy units to my army.

Polecat wrote:
They are treated as enemy units by AoC units. That does not make them enemy units to my army.

Who owns the servo skull wargear? Since it's not a unit.

If this helps, the battle brothers section explicitly refers to allied units as: "Battle Brothers are treated as 'friendly units' from all points of view.".

So by inference it seems 'friendly' units are the opposite of 'enemy' units or at least allies of convenience are not referred to explicitly as friendly units, unlike battle brothers.

I do also agree that you'd have to determine wether or not a unit is friendly from the POV of the model which took the wargear, not from the wargear itself. (as there is no defined method to determine such from the latter to my awareness)

This thread is starting to run in circles



Please read my quote here:

Polecat wrote:
Like I stated in previous posts, "friendly unit" phrase in Servo-skulls rules can be interpreted as a general reference to units in your army, like it was in 5th edition.

That is all I have to say on this matter, so now I dont have to keep repeating myself

Except it can't be interpreted that way. At all.

And there is the definition of friendly unit in 6th edition which can be reasonably interpreted to preclude allies of convenience, and desperate allies. I'd suggest not referencing a prior edition to prove your point, as that definition may very well be no longer relevent to 40k in it's current state.

If you want to presume that 'friendly unit' refers to any unit in your army-list, why is it explicitly called out only in the battle brothers section rather than any of the other two?

There is no definition of friendly unit in 6th BRB. The BRB uses terms like friendly unit and friendly model, even friendly turn, but those are not explaned. They are left to the readers to interprete.

Only sensible way to interprete "friendly units" is that they are your units, in your army, in your armylist. All of them.

To bluntly preclude AoC and desperate allies from "friendly units" makes no sense. GK units would be enemy units because they are AoC to SM, and vice versa. There would be nothing but enemy units in our army, no IC could join any unit, no unit could embark in a transport etc. Makes no sense.


The correct way to read AoC rule is just what it says, "Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy
units". This means, that all units are friendly units, but they are treated as enemy units by AoC units.


Now, about the Servo-skulls.
They mention "friendly units", and as I established, all your units are friendly units to your army.
It is up to you wether you interprete this "friendly unit" to mean units in your army, or units friendly to the unit owning the wargear.

I beg to differ: there are dozens of places in the rulebook that serve to indicate what constitutes a friendly unit within the context of various rules. Most of them contrast it with being an enemy unit in some way too, to clearly differentiate the two.

That said: "...Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units..."
and
"...However should an enemy unit move within 6" then the Servo-skull will self-destruct..."

Seems to indicate quite clearly how they interact.

The hub of your argument seems to be that allied (non-BB) units are only treated as enemy units by other units, not by counters or other battlefield bric-a-brac. If this is so, then how 'do' you go about determining what is a friendly unit and what is an enemy unit for the purposes of servo-skulls?

 Neorealist wrote:

The hub of your argument seems to be that allied (non-BB) units are only treated as enemy units by other units, not by counters or other battlefield bric-a-brac. If this is so, then how 'do' you go about determining what is a friendly unit and what is an enemy unit for the purposes of servo-skulls?

The very first thing I would do before playing against someone with this tactic in mind, is ask his opinion. Assuming I'm against an opponent who does not oppose this, or even better, uses the same tactic and interpretation himself, I would go with that a deep striking unit from my armylist is a friendly unit as far as a Servo-skull is concerned.

If I were a judge at a tournament, and was called to make a judgement about this, I would go with that the deep striking unit is concidered enemy unit, because it is less controversial decision.

BAs cannot use servo skulls period.

1. Servo skulls are GK wargear.
2. BAs are AoC with GKs.
3. AoC cannot benefit from each others wargear.
3a. Also cannot attach ICs, cast psychic powers, etc...

Not sure why this is even a question.

Polecat wrote: The very first thing I would do before playing against someone with this tactic in mind, is ask his opinion. Assuming I'm against an opponent who does not oppose this, or even better, uses the same tactic and interpretation himself, I would go with that a deep striking unit from my army list is a friendly unit as far as a Servo-skull is concerned.

If I were a judge at a tournament, and was called to make a judgement about this, I would go with that the deep striking unit is concidered enemy unit, because it is less controversial decision.

That does seem a reasonable way to go about it, i'd agree. That said, i'd also suggest checking to see if such an interpretation doesn't indirectly violate another rule, in this case the fact that only battle brother allies are explicitly "...counted as being friendly units for the targeting of psychic powers, abilities and so on...". Arguably the servo-skull (while not a unit or model) is an 'ability' of some sort which is also only specifically granted to battlebrothers. (and so is implicitly not available to allies of convenience or desperation)