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It is by the politicians.

 Frazzled wrote:

repectfully, neither Texas nor California have an official language that I am aware of. Now cultural differences I'd put Texas or Louisiana against NY. There's some differences in country. But hey, my wife is from Chicago. Now thats an interracial marriage. If we can get along there's not that much of a difference.

I don't know how different Quebec is. I do know that separation would probably not help your economy. Leaving that would be strictly meh.

I've been to Texas, Louisiana, and New York (and a whole lot of other places besides). They're not that different from Western New York. New York City, on the other hand, is a very different culture. (And if they ever want to leave, the rest of the state would be happy to give them all the non-New York State sovereignty they can do. Which is probably measured in kilos of cocaine)

Chi Town isn't too bad. They eat odd pizza there.

Though, in all honesty, it's fun to pit racist cowboys from Calgary against racist frogs from Quebec. *brandishes his 'Warbucks' brand coffee* After all, almost everything that has been discussed might just put loonies (or, my preference, Krugerrands, Swiss francs a distant second) in someone's pocket. A war next door and me with the legal right to take all sorts of interesting things across said boarder legally? And the tanks are even French*! (*May contain German, US, and custom after market add ons and may contain technology prohibited for export to non-NATO member states. Air freight and air drop are available. [direct to battlefield delivery surcharges may apply])

 azazel the cat wrote:

Only in a legal sense.

In practice, you'll find that nobody speaks French in Alberta and in Quebec only small enclaves speak English. Hell, the province immediately to the East of Alberta, -Saskatchewan- actually has provincial legislation protecting schools from being forced to offer French as a language course.

I thought a little less than 40% of francophones in Quebec spoke English as well.

How can that Saskatchewan factoid be true? It must be against federal law...

 dogma wrote:

I thought a little less than 40% of francophones in Quebec spoke English as well.

Only if you count the ones that speak English about as well as I speak French.

It's complicated. Quebec is a big place. Montreal (the province's largest city by far) is basically an English city. Quebec city is very French.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

repectfully, neither Texas nor California have an official language that I am aware of. Now cultural differences I'd put Texas or Louisiana against NY. There's some differences in country. But hey, my wife is from Chicago. Now thats an interracial marriage. If we can get along there's not that much of a difference.

I don't know how different Quebec is. I do know that separation would probably not help your economy. Leaving that would be strictly meh.

I've been to Texas, Louisiana, and New York (and a whole lot of other places besides). They're not that different from Western New York. New York City, on the other hand, is a very different culture. (And if they ever want to leave, the rest of the state would be happy to give them all the non-New York State sovereignty they can do. Which is probably measured in kilos of cocaine)

Chi Town isn't too bad. They eat odd pizza there.

Though, in all honesty, it's fun to pit racist cowboys from Calgary against racist frogs from Quebec. *brandishes his 'Warbucks' brand coffee* After all, almost everything that has been discussed might just put loonies (or, my preference, Krugerrands, Swiss francs a distant second) in someone's pocket. A war next door and me with the legal right to take all sorts of interesting things across said boarder legally? And the tanks are even French*! (*May contain German, US, and custom after market add ons and may contain technology prohibited for export to non-NATO member states. Air freight and air drop are available. [direct to battlefield delivery surcharges may apply])

Its heresy but I was not impressed with deepdish Chicago pizza. It seemed loaded with dough. I don't want dough. I want topping. Dough is like cake, a launching platform for the frosting.

You see, this is a basic difference between me, and the Frazzled party candidate. I love, and enjoy, and exalt ALL of the cake. He only cares about the frosting at the very top.

Similarly, he cannot appreciate the depth of the American icon that is the Chicago Stuffed Pizza. From the crust at the bottom and the sides, supporting the great middle cheese stuffing, to the zesty sauce at the top; I embrace ALL of these elements, and say that they are ALL needed, for this delicious American creation.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
How can that Saskatchewan factoid be true? It must be against federal law...

I think they can still teach French if they wish to, it seems like its there to stop local over meant going "you are going to teach French lessons to these kids" even if there was no will or need to do

 Mannahnin wrote:
You see, this is a basic difference between me, and the Frazzled party candidate. I love, and enjoy, and exalt ALL of the cake. He only cares about the frosting at the very top.

Similarly, he cannot appreciate the depth of the American icon that is the Chicago Stuffed Pizza. From the crust at the bottom and the sides, supporting the great middle cheese stuffing, to the zesty sauce at the top; I embrace ALL of these elements, and say that they are ALL needed, for this delicious American creation.

And in contrast it is Team Wienie's firm belief that the cream rises to the top! Its that One Percent on the top that is the best.

 Goliath wrote:

I think they can still teach French if they wish to, it seems like its there to stop local over meant going "you are going to teach French lessons to these kids" even if there was no will or need to do

'Need to do so' in the sense that francophones don't exist or in the sense that they are not welcome?

 Mannahnin wrote:
You see, this is a basic difference between me, and the Frazzled party candidate. I love, and enjoy, and exalt ALL of the cake. He only cares about the frosting at the very top.

Similarly, he cannot appreciate the depth of the American icon that is the Chicago Stuffed Pizza. From the crust at the bottom and the sides, supporting the great middle cheese stuffing, to the zesty sauce at the top; I embrace ALL of these elements, and say that they are ALL needed, for this delicious American creation.

Chicago Stuffed Pizza is all kinds of awesome...

How's this for a weird one? "St. Louis style Pizza" is basically think crust with provolone... its and acquired taste, but awesome too.

 Goliath wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
How can that Saskatchewan factoid be true? It must be against federal law...

I think they can still teach French if they wish to, it seems like its there to stop local over meant going "you are going to teach French lessons to these kids" even if there was no will or need to do

My father wanted to learn French, and knew just enough to strike up a deal with a Frenchman where my dad would teach him English in return for this guy to teach him French. A couple months went by and my father noticed that as he tried to speak French exactly as he heard it, Frenchmen he tried it on would start laughing. He couldn't understand what was so funny until the person he was learning from began speaking more and more English.
Turns out the man had a serious stutter...

 Goliath wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
How can that Saskatchewan factoid be true? It must be against federal law...

I think they can still teach French if they wish to, it seems like its there to stop local over meant going "you are going to teach French lessons to these kids" even if there was no will or need to do

Just so you know the way it works in Canada is that everyone outside of Quebec must learn French in school but it's illegal to teach English in Quebec.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Political pandering to Quebec is a serious problem. Quebec benefits more from being part of Canada than any other province.

That pretty much ignores the fact that more or less 30% of the population remains sovereignist. It's not a political strategy to suck more cash out of Ottawa.

Kovnik, your point about the percentage of separatists doesn't counter KC's position at all. I'd say 30% is a great sweet spot to put pressure on without being so OTT that they throw their hands up in Ottawa. It's a "non-serious serious problem" if you see what I mean.

Regardless of the sincerity of seperatists is it a serious problem. More so actually with the Anglo politicians pandering to Quebec. They are worse in many ways.

There is no place in Canada that benefits more from Canada than Quebec.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/782673--quebec-a-poor-little-rich-province
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada

It's outrageous to use the supposed cultural difference of Alberta and Quebec as reason to divide people when Alberta literally pays for everything Quebec has.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Just so you know the way it works in Canada is that everyone outside of Quebec must learn French in school but it's illegal to teach English in Quebec.

Wait...what ?

 Von Skyfury wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Just so you know the way it works in Canada is that everyone outside of Quebec must learn French in school but it's illegal to teach English in Quebec.

Wait...what ?

Don't tell anyone but Canada's dirty little secret is it has an actual no-hyperbole fascist institution called The Language Police. They literally go around making English illegal in Quebec.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2008/02/14/qc-olf-0214.html
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/quebec-language-police-target-furniture-store-sign-owner-193151625.html
http://www.canadianconstitutionfoundation.ca/article.php/319

Sigh...
You know that law 101 Kovnik talked earlier ? That's what these articles are refering too (didn't read them all but it seems to be the case)
But yes, sometimes it can be ridiculous
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_the_French_Language

And about English being illegal to teach in Quebec... English is a mandatory class at school...

 BaronIveagh wrote:

Only if you count the ones that speak English about as well as I speak French.

That's what the official statistics from the Canadian government are, and generally people are only classified as bilingual if they have conversational fluency. This doesn't mean speaking a language so well that you can carry on long conversations about esoteric topics, but that you can carry on a normal conversation with a native speaker. Most people never get beyond conversational fluency (Outside of reading and writing, which is relatively easy by comparison to speaking and listening.), because full fluency requires that you effectively think in the language in question.

 Von Skyfury wrote:
Sigh...
You know that law 101 Kovnik talked earlier ? That's what these articles are refering too (didn't read them all but it seems to be the case)
But yes, sometimes it can be ridiculous

Yes, and?

You saying they are going around making english illegal needed clarifications. It's deeper than what you are saying.

 Von Skyfury wrote:
You saying they are going around making english illegal needed clarifications. It's deeper than what you are saying.

It's as shallow as the fact the language police generally go around bullying and harrasing shop owners.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

It's as shallow as the fact the language police generally go around bullying and harassing shop owners.

Sorry if I sort of shrug at this. 'I support the law, but I object to having to follow it' seems a bit odd.

And, frankly, the fine sounds steep, but lets compare:

The Russian version sent them to the gulags.

The US version left cemeteries filled with the graves of children. 186 graves at Carlisle alone, 13 'unknown' because they couldn't be bothered.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

It's as shallow as the fact the language police generally go around bullying and harassing shop owners.

Sorry if I sort of shrug at this. 'I support the law, but I object to having to follow it' seems a bit odd.

And, frankly, the fine sounds steep, but lets compare:

The Russian version sent them to the gulags.

The US version left cemeteries filled with the graves of children. 186 graves at Carlisle alone, 13 'unknown' because they couldn't be bothered.

I don't support the law. And yes, Baron things are always worse someplace else. I'll guess I'll just ignore the problems in my country because...... Russia exists.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

I don't support the law. And yes, Baron things are always worse someplace else. I'll guess I'll just ignore the problems in my country because...... Russia exists.

The shopkeeper in question does. He just feels it's unfair to apply it to him. He even says so. Stop and think about that. And the point was actually those people didn't have a choice. The Canadian merchant in question chose to support it, and now complained because he was forced to obey it.

Are you talking about that one guy in that link? Yes, I suppose. Obviously many don't support the law anyway and It's completely reasonable to support an idea or law and then think the way it's enforced is wrong or not in the original spirit.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
It's complicated. Quebec is a big place. Montreal (the province's largest city by far) is basically an English city. Quebec city is very French.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:


Just so you know the way it works in Canada is that everyone outside of Quebec must learn French in school but it's illegal to teach English in Quebec.

Both those factoids are completely inaccurate.

I've had english classes since 3rd grade. Legally, it's mandatory for everyone as of 7th, and all through 12th, IIRC.

Montreal is a little bit over 12% Anglo. The numbers of Allophone (mostly Greeks, Italians and Jews) is more than double that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Von Skyfury wrote:
You saying they are going around making english illegal needed clarifications. It's deeper than what you are saying.

It's as shallow as the fact the language police generally go around bullying and harrasing shop owners.

It's illegal to build houses using brown bricks in my hometown. This is in no way different. It's a question of aesthetical sensibilities. Calling it a fascist institution just shows how much you ignore about fascism and law. And it's really not that much enforced. The Starbucks next to my place advertise ''Café Starbucks Coffee'' in equal lettering, and it's on one of the most travelled artery of Montreal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:


It's outrageous to use the supposed cultural difference of Alberta and Quebec as reason to divide people when Alberta literally pays for everything Quebec has.

*Sigh* There is so much bullcrap in your statements, it's painfull. Have you even bothered to look the articles you've posted? We receive, per Capita, a little bit over 900$ in equalization.

That is, as of 2009, less than 3% of our GDP.

First of all it's weird that brown bricks can't be used in your town but Quebec's language laws are obviously not just some aesthetic choice.

Not trying to overexaggerete but what I'm saying is everyone in Montreal speaks English. You're talking ethnic background.

Yes I read them, did you? Did you see how Quebec gets as much money from Ottawa as every other province combined?
And you know what? Have the money, who cares. I don't have a problem helping my fellow Canadians anyway. Just don't say Quebec doesn't benefit from being part of Canada.

Brown brick provisions are hardly the same as one pertaining to language.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

And you know what? Have the money, who cares. I don't have a problem helping my fellow Canadians anyway.

That is precisely the point, well said.