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With 6th Ed allowing flyers my gaming group and I all decided that there was no reason anymore to not allow FW units with the Warhammer 40,000 stamp on it in regular games. We've all come to the conclusion that for the most part each one of the units stamped is not game breaking in the least and for a lot of units are a bit over priced for what they do. Thus allowing FW units into normal games has allowed our players with older codecies a "stop-gap" to which to compete with the new edition and newer codecies. As an Eldar player I capitilized on the flyer rules and purchased 2 Nightwings and a Firestorm (despretly needing AA as I play against Necron flyers, Valks, and Stormravens/Talons often).

I've had a chance to play against every said army with those flyers with mine and my firestorm. The Nightwings function fantastically, and even though they only have 2 HP they are also granted a 2+ Jink save via the Agile and Shrouded rules. Coupled with 6 str 6 shots and 2 str 8 lances and Vector Dancer makes for a potent AA platform and even ground attack when there's an opportunity. But the main thing I want to talk about is my Firestorm. Before I bought it I looked on the forums for people's thoughts and experiances with it but none were for 6th ed so I thought I'de take my chancest. It was a great desicion.

While I agree it is over costed, its worth taking if you are going to face an army with a lot of flyers (and to be honest the only time I would ever take it too). Its a 6 shot str 6 twin-linked given the Skyfire and Interceptor rule to boot. Its also a Fast Skimmer, which is key. If you go first you will want to Flat Out with it in that turn to gain a 4+ Jink save during your opponent's next turn or just hide it out of sight or if you have an opporunity use its long range to take pop shots at their deployed units. Your second turn though you will want to Flat Out instead of Shooting in your shooting phase to gain your Jink save. When your opponent's flyers come from reservers, you can shoot at them before they even have a chance to shoot. I've had mixed sucess either just causing 3 HPs of damage or shy by 1. If your opponent Jinks then its not all lost as their flyer can only shoot Snap Shots the turn it came in. My Firestorm has weathered return fire nicely thanks to the Jink Save. In your next turn because you shot with your Interceptor weapon you move flat out again and then repeat if there are any more flyers coming in. And if by some chance there aren't any more flyers your Skyfire with Interceptor Weapon can shoot at other targets with its normal BS with the Interceptor Special Rule's last paragraph. The other good thing about the Firestorm is you have a transport capacity just like a Falcon. I've found it nice to have a small squad of Avengers in it and on turn 4 motor up to an objective that is clear or that I have cleared off with shooting and in turn 5 drop them off on it.

I'm not sure how that tactic would work in a competitive game because we mostly play for fun, but its worked for me quite well. I've only taken 1 in each game because of points but also I take both my Nightwings as well and between the 3 I have adaquate AA coverage against the players in my circle. So my advice to the Eldar players plagued by their lack of reliable AA the Firestorm is worth getting/making if you are pitted against flyers often. Let me know what you think or if I'm interpreting the rules wrong and can't do said tactic.

That is a good write up on the firestorm. I havent seem many people give first hand experiences with them.

On another note, the nightwings dont always have a 2+ cover save. Maybe that isnt what you meant when you wrote it. But they get shrouded all the time which gives them a constant 5+ cover save. If when shot at, after hits are made, yo can elect to evade. This gives the flyer a Jink save. Shrouded would then stank on a jink save and you would have a 3+ cover save.

Thanks most of the ones on here are negative or don't have people who have really used them before commenting on them. If they have it was only in Apoc. or pre-6th Ed.

Nightwings have Shrouded and Agile in the newest rule set for it. Agile improves Jink Cover saves by +1. Its in the new Aeronautica Imperial Armour Book. Shrouded stacks with Stealth so I'm only assuming it also stacks with Agile.

Agile gives 1+ to any cover save granted by jink. Nightwings only get jink if they evade. So only during evading do they have a 2+ cover (Jink, agile, shrouded).

 Razgriz22 wrote:
Agile gives 1+ to any cover save granted by jink. Nightwings only get jink if they evade. So only during evading do they have a 2+ cover (Jink, agile, shrouded).

What I originally ment

I have had a Firestorm and have yet to field it. For fun games some of my opponents will let me play IA stuff, but the game store that I normally play at is a big stink pot for not allowing IA stuff, which I really feel is crap as I do not think the rules are broken for them. Since 6th Edition came out, I have been itching to use my Firestorm as it seems as though it would be an awesome AA gun like the IG hydra but better. It is cool to see posts about it on Dakka. I will have to try it in some of my fun games. Cheers and thanks for the awesome posts, it gives me incentive to start playing it. Cheers man

PhearTP wrote:

 Razgriz22 wrote:
Agile gives 1+ to any cover save granted by jink. Nightwings only get jink if they evade. So only during evading do they have a 2+ cover (Jink, agile, shrouded).

What I originally ment

Ok great! Glad we figured that out. I just find it strange that they would give it this extra rule only listed in the new armour book.

So the nightwing is next to impossible to shoot down once you evade. I would assume you should only evade if another flyer lands a ton of hits on you? Then the next turn zoom off the board so you can deepstrike behind said flyer in the following turn?

Give it a go but just be warned its a bullet magnet. I run mine bare to keep points down but if you have spare points think about vector engines or spirit stones. While it may not always make its points back by destroying units, I look at it as making its points back by protecting. If it can shoot down just one flyer (even a cheap one) it just saved an unknown amount of units or vehicles from being shot at and/or destroyed by that flyer.

A lot of groups ban IA because they think its all Apoc only units. Most of those people have never played with or against any units from IA or own any of the books. Most people don't even know that GW owns FW and that FW has to get GW's approval for each book they put out. I've got a few friends close to GW and I've heard that GW is slowly going to allow FW units in normal games (ie. make them official units for the codex they belong). There are several big tournaments in the US that are just now allowing FW units in armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Razgriz22 wrote:

PhearTP wrote:

 Razgriz22 wrote:
Agile gives 1+ to any cover save granted by jink. Nightwings only get jink if they evade. So only during evading do they have a 2+ cover (Jink, agile, shrouded).

What I originally ment

Ok great! Glad we figured that out. I just find it strange that they would give it this extra rule only listed in the new armour book.

So the nightwing is next to impossible to shoot down once you evade. I would assume you should only evade if another flyer lands a ton of hits on you? Then the next turn zoom off the board so you can deepstrike behind said flyer in the following turn?

I look at it as balanced because the Nightwing only has 2 hull points where most others have 3. I evade most of the time when there is more than 1 hit against me or if I'm down to just 1 HP. I'll sometimes take a chance and not Evade if I'm only hit once and theres a chance it'll only be a glance then take the 5+ from Shroud. But if you do Evade you don't have to zoom off the board next turn because you have Vector Dancer which allows you an additional 90 degree pivot at the end of your move. So if you can, you can turn it in a way to be able to shoot (all-be-it snap shots) at the offending flyer. You get an additional round of shooting (instead of flying off the board) and a fair chance of causing a couple of HP dmg against another vehicle.

Good call on the vector dance. I guess its hard to envision on my head but I was doing a couple flying motions wit it on my table today to get a real feel of the kinds of maneuvers a flyer with VD can do. You can basically keep your target in sight every turn and never have to leave the board. You can do some very cool maneuvers with it zig-zagging back and forth but barely advancing up the board.

Another thought came into my head. Th phoenix bomber. It has VD and Strafing run. Granted It may be overcosted. But it can also VD and shoot at BS5 against ground targets. The question being.... is 2 S8 ap2 shots and 6 S5 ap3 shots worth that? It also has those 2 Shuriken cannons in case it needs to hunt a flyer or is in the 24" range t fire one off as the 4th weapon.

Depends on what you want the Phoenix to do. Hunt Marines the 6 Str 5 ap 3 shots go through their armour and either pulse laser another 2 with ap2 shots or pepper 6 shots into them forcing even more armour saves. Or if you're facing say Orks, Nids, or even IG the Nightfire Missiles are better. They give you 6 small blast at BS5 that ignore cover which is more important to those particular armies now. I see the Pulse Lasers as guns of opportunity armour poppers if you find your bomber stairring at the butt end of a tank not to mention the Shuiken Cannons can glance most vehicles as well. But the bomber in my opinion is more of a Infantry hunter than a vehicle hunter. Its the next model on my list to get but I've been proxying one for awhile. I will say this, its better to use against opponents that don't have a lot of AA or long range shooting because if you take the Nightfire Missiles and have to Evade you can't fire them in your next shooting phase. Because I face Orks, IG, and Necrons more often I take the Nightfire Missiles, but I have to be careful in maneuvering and do sometimes leave the board with it. But its very versatile in what it can do and allows you to choose almost any type of target to attack. It is a little over priced but brings the fire power with a 3+ Evade/Jink and essentially BS5 and 3 HPs. In larger point games (1500+ imo) its worth it, anything less than that you're going to be cramming it in the army at the cost of effectiveness of other units.

I think the Firestorm is waaaay overpriced.

I have yet to justify how/why I would fit it in my army.

I can usually manage in a different way.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
I think the Firestorm is waaaay overpriced.

I have yet to justify how/why I would fit it in my army.

I can usually manage in a different way.

Thats the general attitude from most Eldar players about it, which is fine. Like I said in my original post I wouldn't take it if knew I wasn't going to face a lot of flyers. Generally if I'm only going to face one or two flyers I'll bring a Nightwing, maybe both, and thats good enough; but when I'm facing Nightscythe or Valkyrie spam the extra AA power (with Interceptor) helps greatly. But you are right it is way overcosted if you aren't facing a lot of flyers. IMO it needs to be at least 50 to 60 points cheaper to bring it in line with the normal Eldar tanks. I'm sure when we get our new codex the Firestorm (or a version there-of) will be included and with Phil Kelly writing it it will be more justifiable to bring in most games. Simply put I'm recommending it now as a good alternative for AA if you are facing a lot of flyers regularly when you can't count on lucky scatter laser 6's to bring down 3 or 4 flyers a game.

So glad I found this thread, Ithink I may be facing one of the babies this weekend and with my IG drop troop army having 3 Valkyries it's given me pause for thought...<pauses>...ah, feck it, my IG are airborne, they'll just have to cope, take plenty of field dressings, fire extinguishers and improvise and adapt and all that stuff. Thanks for the low down: an enlightening read

Hi - first post here - just came back from a 2 day Apoc game where I fielded (or 'Skyed') Three nightwings and One Phoenix bomber. Phoenix did 'ok' configured for killing guard, but got shot down as it only has a 3 up! The Nightwings however evaded like demons and survived all game. The massive save ids kind of balanced by the medium firepower - no missiles, and the aircraft works better as a ground strike aircraft (think that an upgraded Falcon with BL is same points). Took down a Tigershark and disabled several tanks, and rolled lots of 2's for evade saves (being clipped only once for 1 hull point), but best thing was they drew a lot of fire from enemy AA. Definitely worth the points and fun to play, vector dancer allows you to get side/rear most of the time, but against aircraft not necessarily worth it (so the fluff as being a super fighter doesn't really play out.