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Ok so the Dreadnoughts and Challenges thread started to slip so I decided to make my own thread on the topic that emerged form it.

What/Who counts as Characters. That is, who benefits from Look Out sir (2+/4+), Percision Shot/Strike and who can issue and accept challenges?

The appendix lists many unit names and gives their unit types (CH. IND, JUMP, MON etc) However some units have been left out. Many of the FAQ's ERRATAS tell us to add unit types to various units but have galringly left out a few. So how does one determine who/What benefits from the Character special rules?

For Example:
Bjorn
Pask
Chronus
Mephiston
Marbo
Doom of Malanti
and various others.

All Named models are "Special Characters" so they benefit from the Look Out Sir rule. (Save for Tank commanders, as a wound is not being allocated to them, the allocation is to their tank).

All models that are noted as Character in the BRB are also characters.

how is this unclear?

It is unclear becasue some Special Characters are given specific permision to be CHARACTERS. Other models not so much. So is it safe to say that Pask May persision shot all shots from his tank, Bjorn can percision shot with his assault cannon? Also the question came up that a Librarian is a Character, so then is a Librarian Dreadnought a Character? Not as clear as one would think!

Bjorn has the Unique type, something only given to special characters (page 110). I'd say this defiantly qualifies Bjorn as a character.
Librarian Dreads? No idea, don't have a Bangels codex.

A Librarian is an Independent Character because he has the IC rule, this does not apply to Dread Librarians, as they do not have the IC rule.

All Special Characters are characters, because they are a special type of character. (As noted in the Mephiston example).

Pask can not precision shot from the tank, because the tank is shooting, and not pask, even though the tank is using his ballistic skill.

To say pask is shooting is incorrect because if the tank moves, pask is not relentless, so he would not be able to shoot heavy weapons without snap fire. this makes it clear that the tank is shooting, using an increased BS, and not Pask himself.

Dooley wrote:
It is unclear becasue some Special Characters are given specific permision to be CHARACTERS.

Which ones? I must've missed that.

 DeathReaper wrote:
A Librarian is an Independent Character because he has the IC rule, this does not apply to Dread Librarians, as they do not have the IC rule.

All Special Characters are characters, because they are a special type of character. (As noted in the Mephiston example).

Pask can not precision shot from the tank, because the tank is shooting, and not pask, even though the tank is using his ballistic skill.

To say pask is shooting is incorrect because if the tank moves, pask is not relentless, so he would not be able to shoot heavy weapons without snap fire. this makes it clear that the tank is shooting, using an increased BS, and not Pask himself.

Pask may not have relentless but the Tank itself has special rules to allow it to fire even if it moved. That is like saying Bjorn isnt shooting the Assault cannon his Sarcaphogus and targeting systems are. If a Character can percision strike with a weapon emplacement (or is it an emplaced weapon) than Pask could do it with his Tank.

Dooley wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
A Librarian is an Independent Character because he has the IC rule, this does not apply to Dread Librarians, as they do not have the IC rule.

All Special Characters are characters, because they are a special type of character. (As noted in the Mephiston example).

Pask can not precision shot from the tank, because the tank is shooting, and not pask, even though the tank is using his ballistic skill.

To say pask is shooting is incorrect because if the tank moves, pask is not relentless, so he would not be able to shoot heavy weapons without snap fire. this makes it clear that the tank is shooting, using an increased BS, and not Pask himself.

Pask may not have relentless but the Tank itself has special rules to allow it to fire even if it moved. That is like saying Bjorn isnt shooting the Assault cannon his Sarcaphogus and targeting systems are. If a Character can percision strike with a weapon emplacement (or is it an emplaced weapon) than Pask could do it with his Tank.

I kind of agree with this, but I don't own the codex with Pask in it (is it IG?) so I can't say for sure. I can say that Bjorn the Fell Handed is most definitely a special character and can use precision shots and can challenge and be challenged.

Well chronus just allows the tank to use his BS, Bjorn actually shoots his gun, the tank just uses Chronus' skills. I don't know about Pask but Chronus cannot give a tank precision strike.

Why would Chronus NOT be able to give his tank percision strike? He is a Special Character (he has a stat line and everything). The Tank ueses his BS because he is the one shooting the tank the same way that Bjorn is shooting his Assault cannon and a Captain is shooting a Quad Gun on an Aegis line?

Dooley wrote:
Why would Chronus NOT be able to give his tank percision strike?

Because the tank is just using his BS.

 insaniak wrote:

Dooley wrote:
Why would Chronus NOT be able to give his tank percision strike?

Because the tank is just using his BS.

Insaniak saying it again. It is in Chronus' rules.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Well chronus just allows the tank to use his BS, Bjorn actually shoots his gun, the tank just uses Chronus' skills. I don't know about Pask but Chronus cannot give a tank precision strike.

Same wording for Pask, the tank uses his BS.

I have come to the conclusion that any Model/Unit that has a specific name (Doom of Malantai, Bjorn, Maphestion etc) is indeed a Charachter and can Percision strike/Shot as a Character defined by the rules. None of the special characters are mentioned in the Apendex of the BRB nore are they granted the IN(CH) unit type in a FAQ/ERRATA. They simply ARE Characters by default and are granted all rights and privlages there of. Im still a bit sceptical about Pask and Chronus as even though they lend thier BS to their vehicle they are still Characters with models and have specific names and abilities.

As far as a Librarian Dreadnought is concerned I dont think they count as Characters becasue although they are indeed a Librarian they are not quite special enough to warrant "Character Status". Then again if all the member of a Nob squad are characters why not them too?

Cos librarian dreads are listed in the brb and have been clearly labelled not characters like all the other generic dreadnaught types.

Nobs and WG have been.

Dooley wrote:
Im still a bit sceptical about Pask and Chronus as even though they lend thier BS to their vehicle they are still Characters with models and have specific names and abilities.

Think of it as Sergeant Telion using his Voice of Experience rule to lend his BS to a Scout with missile launcher. Just because Telion is a character does not grant the Scout with missile launcher Precision Shots.
So even if Pask and Chronus are considered characters while commanding a tank, they do not grant Precision Shots to the tank. Basically, they're not firing the tank themselves, they're guiding the tank gunner's aim.

New FAQ says all unique models are characters. Now is it clear enough for you?

Also

Page 83 – HQ, Bjorn the Fell-handed, Unit Type.
Change unit type to Walker (Character).

Q: Are Arjac Rockfist and Lukas the Trickster characters? (p86/89)
A: Yes.


From new Space Wolf FAQ.

Given that these rumoured new FAQ's aren't showing up on GW's website for myself and others, not so clear yet. :p

Clear your cache.
https://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1490286a_40K_Rulebook_v1.pdf

So a Pask and Chronus Tank are NOT Characters as they would be vehicles that are NOT Bjorn :( sad.

They are characters but you don't get their character abilities until they are on the board as their models. They do get all their special rules.

Pask dies with his Tank but Chronus can Percision shot if he hops off his destryoed tank and takes some shots with his bolter. Got it.