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I'm a little confused by the recent FAQ that says that Dark Eldar do not count for the Fortune psychic power. How is this supposed to work? Is it that Dark Eldar units are not Eldar units for the psychic power or is it that any Eldar unit with a Dark Eldar IC is fine? Is it somewhere in between, where an Eldar unit with a Dark Eldar IC that gets Fortune only affects the Eldar models and not the Dark Eldar models?

Also, how does this affect the Avatar Inspiring Presence rule? That was not given a specific ruling in the new FAQ.

Per the FAQ Dark Eldar =/= Eldar. Therefore anything in the Eldar codex that specifies "Eldar" can only affect Eldar. As it stands, for the purposes of Farseer Powers Dark Eldar cannot be targeted, however, if a Dark Eldar IC is joined to a nEldar unit he still benefits. I think.

Happyjew wrote:
Per the FAQ Dark Eldar =/= Eldar. Therefore anything in the Eldar codex that specifies "Eldar" can only affect Eldar. As it stands, for the purposes of Farseer Powers Dark Eldar cannot be targeted, however, if a Dark Eldar IC is joined to a nEldar unit he still benefits. I think.

So ANY IC that joins an Eldar unit can benefit from rules that target 'an Eldar unit'?

Yes, due to the fact that an IC is considered to be a member of the unit for all rules purposes.

For an example of an ally IC not benefiting see IG FAQ regarding orders. It specifies that only IG benefit from the orders.

You can't target Dark Eldar Units with fortune or guide. DE ICs are considered to be part of an Eldar unit if they join them. If you cast fortune or guide on an Eldar unit with a DE IC attached he will gain the benefit of the power.

 BlueDagger wrote:
You can't target Dark Eldar Units with fortune or guide. DE ICs are considered to be part of an Eldar unit if they join them. If you cast fortune or guide on an Eldar unit with a DE IC attached he will gain the benefit of the power.

The FAQ pretty clearly says guide and fortune has no effect on dark eldar. It doesn't give any exclusion for ICs attached to eldar units, it just flat out states they gain no benefit from those powers.

Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic
powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
A: No.

Where does it say no effect? It only says that Dark Eldar =/= Eldar for Fortune and Guide which can only target an Eldar unit.

Kevlar wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:
You can't target Dark Eldar Units with fortune or guide. DE ICs are considered to be part of an Eldar unit if they join them. If you cast fortune or guide on an Eldar unit with a DE IC attached he will gain the benefit of the power.

The FAQ pretty clearly says guide and fortune has no effect on dark eldar. It doesn't give any exclusion for ICs attached to eldar units, it just flat out states they gain no benefit from those powers.

Your confusion comes from not knowing the wording of Fortune Guide. The power must be cast on a friendly Eldar unit. The FAQ states that Dark Eldar do not count as Eldar for the psy powers. This means you can not target a DE unit with fortune/guide, it does not mean that they can not benefit from it while they are attached to an Eldar you unit. You target units, not ICs.

It only refers to "eldar" in the targetting part of the rule, not using the reroll? I figured they were tightening up some of the more abusive combos especially in lieu of the change to fateweaver. His power only effects units from "Codex:Chaos Demons" so no more rerolling Tzeentch terminators...

Look at IG:

IG FAQ wrote:Q: Can an allied Independent Character benefit from Imperial Guard
Orders if they have joined an Imperial Guard Squad that successfully
receives an order? (p29)
A: No.

Obviously, if DE were not meant to benefit they would have included something like this as well. And as you pointed out they changed Fateweaver to specifically affect only CD.

Kevlar wrote:
It only refers to "eldar" in the targetting part of the rule, not using the reroll? I figured they were tightening up some of the more abusive combos especially in lieu of the change to fateweaver. His power only effects units from "Codex:Chaos Demons" so no more rerolling Tzeentch terminators...

There is a big difference between a power that had to be manfested and cast on a unit vs an always on bubble that effects all untis around you.

Simple matter is that you can easly get around that combo by adjusting your LoS, use barrage, or angle the attack so the shadowfield model isn't the bullet soak.

 BlueDagger wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:
You can't target Dark Eldar Units with fortune or guide. DE ICs are considered to be part of an Eldar unit if they join them. If you cast fortune or guide on an Eldar unit with a DE IC attached he will gain the benefit of the power.

The FAQ pretty clearly says guide and fortune has no effect on dark eldar. It doesn't give any exclusion for ICs attached to eldar units, it just flat out states they gain no benefit from those powers.

Your confusion comes from not knowing the wording of Fortune Guide. The power must be cast on a friendly Eldar unit. The FAQ states that Dark Eldar do not count as Eldar for the psy powers. This means you can not target a DE unit with fortune/guide, it does not mean that they can not benefit from it while they are attached to an Eldar you unit. You target units, not ICs.

See I disagree with this. the way the rule is written, DE can't claim any benefit from Fortune and Guide. If a unit with containing a DE character gets to to benefit from either of these powers, then the Eldar members of the unit should get the benefit but not the DE character as DE don't count as Eldar for Fortune and Guide.

The way I read it, it's a clear prohibition. No leeway there at all.

Thoughts?

Thoughts?

The rulebook clearly states in the Independant character special rules section that when and IC joins any unit it becomes that unit for ALL RULE PURPOSES.

With this FAQ they were clearing up the question of since eldar and dark eldar were the same race, does that mean that codex eldar powers that target friendly eldar models/units also target dark eldar. Because they are still eldar. Just dark. But in reality they are 2 different teams. So that doesnt fly.

Why would they "BAN" fortune and guide from targeting Dark eldar but not also mention Tau. So are you trying to say that Tau Independant characters who join a squad of eldar CAN benefit from fortune and guide where as DE IC's who do the same thing are not allowed to?

No. That makes no sense. This was just clearing up that codex powers can not benefit a dark eldar units. So I cant cast fortune or guide on a friendly dark ELDAR unit just becuase the word ELDAR is in the name.

You can still cast those powers and any powers for that matter on your own units even when a battle brother allied IC joins your unit.

@Razgriz22

Yeah, what you say makes sense. I guess I just wasn't thinking of it in the right way.

Thanks for the reply.

I am used to a lot of sarcasim on this site :-p

But I will assume you weren't being sarcastic.

What I said was basically my interpretation. I suppose after reading it over and over agian I could see how someone would be able to argue it against me though. I feel like what I said is what GW meant to get across. But In all honestly.... No one really knows what they actually MEAN to be saying lol.

I read that an Archon does not ever benefit from Fortune, even if attached to an eldar unit.

Are you referencing your Eldar codex as well?

Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
A: No.

Fortune and Guide can only be cast on an Eldar unit, but they affect all the models in that unit. An Archon joined to an Eldar unit is still part of the unit.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Are you referencing your Eldar codex as well?

Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
A: No.

Fortune and Guide can only be cast on an Eldar unit, but they affect all the models in that unit. An Archon joined to an Eldar unit is still part of the unit.

Thank you, you may have just explained what I was trying to in much less words.

The FAQ does not specify the targeting of an Eldar / Dark Eldar unit, rather simply DE allies do no count as Eldar for those powers - so in a case of either faq > core or advanced > basic then it does not matter if a DEIC is attached to an Eldar unit that had Fortune / Guide cast upon it = Dark Eldar are not Eldar, and do not benefit from the rerolls.

 toxic_wisdom wrote:
The FAQ does not specify the targeting of an Eldar / Dark Eldar unit, rather simply DE allies do no count as Eldar for those powers - so in a case of either faq > core or advanced > basic then it does not matter if a DEIC is attached to an Eldar unit that had Fortune / Guide cast upon it = Dark Eldar are not Eldar, and do not benefit from the rerolls.

Please state where it is ever said that DE or any non-Eldar model can not benefit from Fortune or Guide. The only limitation of Fortune and Guide per the Eldar codex is what units can be targeted for the power. No model from any codex is limited from benefiting from the power, just merely what can be targeted by the power. Thus no other codex's unit can be targeted by the power, but if you target an Eldar unit that has a DE or Tau IC attached, they will benefit from the power as they are a part of the Eldar unit being targeted.

What makes a unit an Eldar unit, and what makes a unit a Dark Eldar unit?

Since ICs are units, and a squads are a unit when they join together they are 2 units becoming one.

So my questrion is, if you have an Eldar IC attached to a DE squad what makes this a DE unit? If you have a DE IC in an Eldar squad what makes this an Eldar unit?

What about when you have an Eldar IC joined with a DE IC? Is this a DE unit or an Eldar unit?


To me when you have an DE IC join an Eldar unit they stop being strickly an Eldar unit and become a hybrid and neither pure Eldar or DE.

 Blackmoor wrote:
To me when you have an DE IC join an Eldar unit they stop being strickly an Eldar unit and become a hybrid and neither pure Eldar or DE.

So what you're saying is that an IC is not just a normal member of the squad after it joins?

Read the independent character USR in the 6th edition rulebook. It should clear that up for you.

When an IC joins a unit, it is counted as being that unit for all rule purposes. An eldar unit with a DE IC in it is still and Eldar unit. The IC is treated as eldar for "all rule purposes"

at it again cheesy eldar? *Sigh* for real please stop trying to obtain a 2+ re-rollable invul and just realize they are saying "Dark eldar + Eldar magic = no" everyone but apparently people who use these tactics agree with the intention of the FAQ. Again feel free to cling to it but this furtherly highlights why i don't enjoy games with Eldar or Dark Eldar in all my games I have yet to run into someone who thinks 175 pt tag team of 1 farseer with fortune and an archon with Shadow field isn't just a smidge beyond the scope of the game's intention.

Please feel free to do what you want But you mustn't like making friends when you play either if you are deadset on finding loopholes despite the FAQ.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
at it again cheesy eldar? *Sigh* for real please stop trying to obtain a 2+ re-rollable invul and just realize they are saying "Dark eldar + Eldar magic = no" everyone but apparently people who use these tactics agree with the intention of the FAQ. Again feel free to cling to it but this furtherly highlights why i don't enjoy games with Eldar or Dark Eldar in all my games I have yet to run into someone who thinks 175 pt tag team of 1 farseer with fortune and an archon with Shadow field isn't just a smidge beyond the scope of the game's intention.

Please feel free to do what you want But you mustn't like making friends when you play either if you are deadset on finding loopholes despite the FAQ.

Assigning bias where there isn't any isn't a good way to argue.
Offering rules to the contrary is a good way to argue.

Would you like to do some of the latter instead of just the former?

I swear you try to find where I post just to come say things against what I write.

Do you play Eldar? Your name, picture, and sig all suggest not. Why does an ork player lurk so much in eldar treads?

If you do play eldar, I havent seen much of anything that you have contributed to the threads you have posted in.

I refuse to argue this rule with you.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:


Please feel free to do what you want But you mustn't like making friends when you play either if you are deadset on finding loopholes despite the FAQ.

Page 39 bottom of the IC square on the left hand side doesn't seem to be a loophole in the least. In fact it appears to be just RAW.

"he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes"

rigeld2 wrote:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
at it again cheesy eldar? *Sigh* for real please stop trying to obtain a 2+ re-rollable invul and just realize they are saying "Dark eldar + Eldar magic = no" everyone but apparently people who use these tactics agree with the intention of the FAQ. Again feel free to cling to it but this furtherly highlights why i don't enjoy games with Eldar or Dark Eldar in all my games I have yet to run into someone who thinks 175 pt tag team of 1 farseer with fortune and an archon with Shadow field isn't just a smidge beyond the scope of the game's intention.

Please feel free to do what you want But you mustn't like making friends when you play either if you are deadset on finding loopholes despite the FAQ.

Assigning bias where there isn't any isn't a good way to argue.
Offering rules to the contrary is a good way to argue.

Would you like to do some of the latter instead of just the former?

Thank you.

And thank you for also re-stating that specific rule again. As I already referenced it above. But maybe it takes more then one person referencing a rule to give it validity?

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:


Please feel free to do what you want But you mustn't like making friends when you play either if you are deadset on finding loopholes despite the FAQ.

Page 39 bottom of the IC square on the left hand side doesn't seem to be a loophole in the least. In fact it appears to be just RAW.

"he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes"

Correct yet the FAQ posts itself clearly in contridiction to this point just not to the level you feel could decline you the abuse vantage correct? Let me ask you a simple question, do you think you really will be right for long? that's all no hate and yes I agree with your assertion of the rules but abuse smells up the game and it ultimately makes it clear to Tournament organizers and GW in general they didn't put it in bright enough red marker and just fix it again. Sometimes reading the winds is how to best sail and learn your army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Razgriz22 wrote:
I swear you try to find where I post just to come say things against what I write.

Do you play Eldar? Your name, picture, and sig all suggest not. Why does an ork player lurk so much in eldar treads?

If you do play eldar, I havent seen much of anything that you have contributed to the threads you have posted in.

I refuse to argue this rule with you.

never even spoke to you or dragged you in on the conversation Razgriz22, But hey how's it going. Glad to see you aren't arguing with me, that's new For clarity I owned eldar for 3 years before the ork codex came out and I went back to the greenskins once and for all. I had plenty of time to learn how to use the army and was particularly fond of vypers, war-walkers, dire avengers and striking scorpions with obviously wanting farseers as my HQ. I found Wraithlords to be a broken monsterosity even then, I still see almost no point in warp spiders. Fire dragons are my death dealers to any enemy gambit or deathstar. Shining Spears were the strongest calvary style model in our army, Swooping hawks were too many points to make them worth it 9 times out of ten. Avatar was too weak for my liking and Howling Banshees were the badasses of the old edition IMO.

You seriously need to stop assuming anything and realize it's a public forum. I am entitled to go where I wish Raz and maybe you could see a trend of theme here but i tend to discourage people from giving into cheese and rule abuse because the army is still viable in traditional battles. So If your favorite thing to do is find the most broken and mine is dispel it then odds are we will cross paths often, Try and realize i represent another voice to your methods and that is all.

Happy games to all till the next FAQ boyz

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
Correct yet the FAQ posts itself clearly in contridiction to this point just not to the level you feel could decline you the abuse vantage correct?

Absolutely false. The only thing the FAQ ruled on was targeting a DE unit.
A Tau or GK IC joined to an Eldar unit benefits, they just can't be targetted directly.

If you step back from the re-rollable 2++ hate you'll realize exactly what the FAQ does and doesn't do.